Project-75I class SSK Submarines

[mayfair]

$11 billion for six submarines? What the heck are we getting? A sub that can go (undetected) around the world in 6 hours?

 

[natarajan]

It includes babus and netas share which will be found after some time

 

[Adux]

3000 to 4000 tons is too much for diesel electric SSKs.

Have you checked the Australian and Japanese Subs? Other than AIP which can be retrofited on to a Scorpene, what other significant advantages will any submarine bring in the tactical arena ?, (new line of sub comes at the cost of Logistics). Nothing. Unless it is bigger. Therefore adding significant firepower. Missile launching capability.

 

[p2prada]

Have you checked the Australian and Japanese Subs? Other than AIP which can be retrofited on to a Scorpene, what other significant advantages will any submarine bring in the tactical arena ?, (new line of sub comes at the cost of Logistics). Nothing. Unless it is bigger. Therefore adding significant firepower. Missile launching capability.

I am not impressed. The Scorpenes and Type 214s are far better than Japanese or Australian subs.

It does not matter who makes what. The missiles have to be Indian or we will have to limit ourselves to MTCR laws and buy Klub type missiles.

We have to build our own subs for that.

 

[Adux]

I am not impressed. The Scorpenes and Type 214s are far better than Japanese or Australian subs.

They are far more than impressive, especially in comparison to green water subs like the above.

It does not matter who makes what.

It does, because Japan wont sell and Australian Collins class is old to be replaced by bigger SSK sub in the near future. There is none in the market as of now, but if it has to make a qualitative difference from the Scorpene, it cant be the Amur's, U-214,Marlin or S-80. Its like buying the Gripen and F-16IN at the same time. It makes no sense.

The SMX-21 is a neat concept though.

The missiles have to be Indian or we will have to limit ourselves to MTCR laws and buy Klub type missiles.

The matter is about the size of the sub, more size- more space = more missile carrying ability, more endurance, more space for perishables, food etc, more everything. More Space = More Nirbhay's

We have to build our own subs for that.

We know that is not happening

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

if russia were to sell akulas class ssn to india how much would it cost? i am sure more than 6 such submarines could be purchased from the russians for 111 billion dollars

 

[Vladimir79]

if russia were to sell akulas class ssn to india how much would it cost? i am sure more than 6 such submarines could be purchased from the russians for 111 billion dollars

Who has $111 billion to spend on submarines? Not even the USN Silent Service is worth that much. The cost of SSNs is around $1-2 billion.

 

[p2prada]

They are far more than impressive, especially in comparison to green water subs like the above.



It does, because Japan wont sell and Australian Collins class is old to be replaced by bigger SSK sub in the near future. There is none in the market as of now, but if it has to make a qualitative difference from the Scorpene, it cant be the Amur's, U-214,Marlin or S-80. Its like buying the Gripen and F-16IN at the same time. It makes no sense.

The SMX-21 is a neat concept though.


The matter is about the size of the sub, more size- more space = more missile carrying ability, more endurance, more space for perishables, food etc, more everything. More Space = More Nirbhay's



We know that is not happening

The Australian and Japanese subs aren't as good as the European makers. Bigger does not always mean better. Size matters in the Ocean.

 

[Adux]

The Australian and Japanese subs aren't as good as the European makers. Bigger does not always mean better. Size matters in the Ocean.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/japan/2900ton-specs.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sōryū_class_submarine
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/sssoryuclasssubmarin/

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/type_212/

Anyways, we need Weapon platform which offers us something different , very different to Scorpene, if not why bother. Lets just buy more Scorpene, 16 Scorpenes would do.

Actually the Japanese O

 

[sandeepdg]

if russia were to sell akulas class ssn to india how much would it cost? i am sure more than 6 such submarines could be purchased from the russians for 111 billion dollars

111 billion dollars, are you out of your mind or what !!! An SSBN costs 1-2 billion USD in case of a Russian one, and maybe upto 5 billion USD in case of Americans. For less than 100 billion dollars, you can probably buy all 18 Ohio class SSBNs of US Navy, that's another matter that they won't sell.

 

[sandeepdg]

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/japan/2900ton-specs.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sōryū_class_submarine
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/sssoryuclasssubmarin/

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/type_212/

Anyways, we need Weapon platform which offers us something different , very different to Scorpene, if not why bother. Lets just buy more Scorpene, 16 Scorpenes would do.

Actually the Japanese O

The Soryu class subs are configured to carry only Harpoon missiles and torpedoes, hence they are not capable of carrying the bigger sized and heavier Brahmos types missiles. Anyway, Japan won't sell subs to us.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

111 billion dollars, are you out of your mind or what !!! An SSBN costs 1-2 billion USD in case of a Russian one, and maybe upto 5 billion USD in case of Americans. For less than 100 billion dollars, you can probably buy all 18 Ohio class SSBNs of US Navy, that's another matter that they won't sell.

actually i meant 11 billion dollar or nearly 50000 crore.i meant that we can easily raise our ssn foprce if russia sells akula than going for conventional subs with aip technology.

 

[sandeepdg]

actually i meant 11 billion dollar or nearly 50000 crore.i meant that we can easily raise our ssn foprce if russia sells akula than going for conventional subs with aip technology.

That sound all good. But where are the SLBMs to arm them, unless we have an proven SLBM, there's no point in buying a SSBN. Plus, I don't think its that easy for anyone to sell an SSBN to us, even for Russia. We will have to depend on the Arihant only for our long term needs.

 

[p2prada]

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/japan/2900ton-specs.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sōryū_class_submarine
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/sssoryuclasssubmarin/

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/type_212/

Anyways, we need Weapon platform which offers us something different , very different to Scorpene, if not why bother. Lets just buy more Scorpene, 16 Scorpenes would do.

Actually the Japanese O

I have no idea what your point is. The Type 212s is of a class of it's own. You can't compare it to the Soryu. The Type 212s can operate at depths of 400m, compared to 275m for Soryu. This is a HUGE difference in capability.

 

[Adux]

I am just giving you an example, that there exists big SSK's, that is all.
What is the major qualitative difference between Scorpene and U212A for us to spend $11 billion?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I dont think there is a sub in the market which fit our need, More than 3000-4000 tons and has AIP?

The best Solution for our Submarine`s depleting fleet was was to construct a smaller hull along with Arhinat`s hull and have same Equipment as Arihant except the reactor and VLS, Both submarines would have shared most equipment and and construction would have been faster, Not to mention we already have TOT of AIP..

Indian KILOs are 4000-3000 tons when submersed, But new genertion are smaller and much maneuverable..




But as now, GOV pumped to much money in the project, It is impossible to look anywhere else..

 

[sandeepdg]

The best Solution for our Submarine`s depleting fleet was was to construct a smaller hull along with Arhinat`s hull and have same Equipment as Arihant except the reactor and VLS, Both submarines would have shared most equipment and and construction would have been faster, Not to mention we already have TOT of AIP..

Indian KILOs are 4000-3000 tons when submersed, But new genertion are smaller and much maneuverable..




But as now, GOV pumped to much money in the project, It is impossible to look anywhere else..

Yeah, that would have been the most optimum solution. When we are making a nuke sub in-house, why not use that expertise in building an conventional diesel attack sub too. Saves us all the troubles. But, this is the result of all the bloody bureaucracy and the short sighted policies of all the successive governments towards indigenous defense production and proper utilization of resources available at disposal . The policies of the policymakers of this country never stop baffling me.

 

[sandeepdg]

By the way, what this new version of Scorpene being offered, that's said to be bigger than the current one ? Anybody has any info on its specs ?

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

That sound all good. But where are the SLBMs to arm them, unless we have an proven SLBM, there's no point in buying a SSBN. Plus, I don't think its that easy for anyone to sell an SSBN to us, even for Russia. We will have to depend on the Arihant only for our long term needs.

akula is not an ssbn, it is an ssn.so it doesn't need slbm to fire.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

By the way, what this new version of Scorpene being offered, that's said to be bigger than the current one ? Anybody has any info on its specs ?

The Scorpène class of ships has four subtypes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scorpene_class_submarine#cite_note-Forecast-3 the CM-2000 conventional diesel-electric version, the AM-2000 AIP derivative, the downsized CA-2000 coastal submarine and the enlarged S-BR for the Brazilian Navy without AIP

1,565 tons (CM-2000)
1,870 tons (AM-2000)
2,000 tons (S-BR)


Indian Navy ordered six. All Indian boats will be built in India at Mazagon Dock Limited, and the last two are to be fitted with the indigenous AIP module, The AIP module requires adding a new 8.3 meter (27 foot), 305 tonne hull section to the submarine, and results in a submarine able to operate for greater than 21 days underwater, depending on variables like speed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scorpene_class_submarine




If Still its not AM-2000 type than something have to do with Barracuda class without the reactor..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Barracuda_class_submarine