Project-17A Nilgiri-class Frigate Thread

[binayak95]

Considering its 6700 tons, why is it classified as a frigate, when the lighter Delhi and Rajput classes are considered destroyers?

It's a misnomer. The French do not have any destroyers. All their ships are called frigates. The Japanese do not have any frigates. All their ships are Destroyers... And yes, the P17 and 17A ships are FAR more capable than R class but they lack the command facilities that P15 and 15A have, and have a shorter range.

 

[nongaddarliberal]

It's a misnomer. The French do not have any destroyers. All their ships are called frigates. The Japanese do not have any frigates. All their ships are Destroyers... And yes, the P17 and 17A ships are FAR more capable than R class but they lack the command facilities that P15 and 15A have, and have a shorter range.

What are the command facilities that it lacks that the Rajput and Delhi class have? And if they're making a bigger ship why did they make it with shorter range?

 

[binayak95]

What are the command facilities that it lacks that the Rajput and Delhi class have? And if they're making a bigger ship why did they make it with shorter range?

It's not that the ships lack fuel capacity or some such. The Gas Turbines are great acceleration and speed wise but lack mileage. So it's a different use case. Frigates need to accelerate fast, separate from the task force and hunt down a submarine or respond to a SOS, for example while the destroyers will stick to the Carrier.

The command facilities that I talk of was true of the P17s and preceding classes. They can't coordinate multiple units across a vast area. The P17As have the same radar that Kolkata class has, and thus could be called a DDG.

Why we call them is semantics. It's less threatening for others if we say we are building 7 frigates viz-a-viz 7 destroyers.

 

[nongaddarliberal]

It's not that the ships lack fuel capacity or some such. The Gas Turbines are great acceleration and speed wise but lack mileage. So it's a different use case. Frigates need to accelerate fast, separate from the task force and hunt down a submarine or respond to a SOS, for example while the destroyers will stick to the Carrier.

The command facilities that I talk of was true of the P17s and preceding classes. They can't coordinate multiple units across a vast area. The P17As have the same radar that Kolkata class has, and thus could be called a DDG.

Why we call them is semantics. It's less threatening for others if we say we are building 7 frigates viz-a-viz 7 destroyers.

Thanks. I would just prefer it if we called them destroyers. Saying we're building 7 new destroyers has a completely different feel to it than saying we're building 7 new frigates. And with the current situation in the Indian ocean, we need to be as threatening as possible in front of an arrogant enemy.

 

[Tanmay]

Considering its 6700 tons, why is it classified as a frigate, when the lighter Delhi and Rajput classes are considered destroyers?

Destroyers seem to have standard loadout of 16 AShM except for Rajput.
In case of Rajputs those ships were procured 30 years ago and were perhaps monsters for that time in IN. So cant be compared to todays destroyers.

 

[binayak95]

Destroyers seem to have standard loadout of 16 AShM except for Rajput.
In case of Rajputs those ships were procured 30 years ago and were perhaps monsters for that time in IN. So cant be compared to todays destroyers.

Monster is right. There was no ship like the R class in the entire IOR. It was modern and state of the art in every sense.

 

[aditya10r]

Why we call them is semantics. It's less threatening for others if we say we are building 7 frigates viz-a-viz 7 destroyers.

Ahem ahem *Political correctness*Ahem ahem

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[abingdonboy]

It's a misnomer. The French do not have any destroyers. All their ships are called frigates. The Japanese do not have any frigates. All their ships are Destroyers... And yes, the P17 and 17A ships are FAR more capable than R class but they lack the command facilities that P15 and 15A have, and have a shorter range.

In the Indian context destroyers were command vessels with a heavier focus on anti-ship roles, frigates were more multi role with all round capabilities but perhaps a heavier focus on ASW.

It is certainly true that the P-15A/B and P-17A have dramatically blurred the lines between destroyer and frigate as they will have near identical weapons, sensors and compliments. Arguably the P-17A will actually be the more advanced vessel!

Perhaps the IN painted themselves into a corner as they had a decided a long time ago that the P-15A would be based on the modestly sized P-15 hull and naturally the P-15B was based on that also whereas the P-17/A was a clean sheet design.

The 15B’s successor is going to have to be a huge leap in capabilities (>10,000 tons).

 

[scatterStorm]

Saw an article on P-17A ... seriously even with reload ability, 8 VLS for Brahmos won't cut in. I don't know what Naval strategic services are thinking while designing these frigates. I may be forgetting something, but at-least 50 VLS is a must. If the reloading of Brahmos takes only few minutes or seconds, then it's safe to assume we have a frigate capable of defending other ships and itself as well.

 

[Tanmay]

Saw an article on P-17A ... seriously even with reload ability, 8 VLS for Brahmos won't cut in. I don't know what Naval strategic services are thinking while designing these frigates. I may be forgetting something, but at-least 50 VLS is a must. If the reloading of Brahmos takes only few minutes or seconds, then it's safe to assume we have a frigate capable of defending other ships and itself as well.

I have never seen IN reloading missiles on the go. I don't think any ship has this capability to reload missiles while at sea.

Anyone from/relative of IN who can confirm ?

 

[binayak95]

I have never seen IN reloading missiles on the go. I don't think any ship has this capability to reload missiles while at sea.

Anyone from/relative of IN who can confirm ?

Right now, no. Our ships can't reload VLS cells at sea. But with the new next gen Universal VLS, itll become possible. There are plans for new Replenishment ships for the same reason.

 

[Neeraj Mathur]

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[uoftotaku]

Looks to have a similar fit as Kolkata class except for the 8 x Brahmos vs 16 x

Confirmed to have MF-STAR + Barak 8 x 32 cells combo to match Kolkata. Perhaps the more surprising upgrade visible (at least in the graphic) is the replacement (finally!) of the RAN-40L with what looks similar to the S-1850

 

[Neeraj Mathur]

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[Shashwat]

Latest images from GEarth = Dated 12 November - yea even latest images are tad old. Development is tardy on P17, I hope they can cut some slack.

In the first image the lower ship is P17a.

 

[Bleh]

The scale drawing is "rather sleek" indeed... looks way more stealthy than the model (which look a bit different too)!

 

[abingdonboy]

Latest images from GEarth = Dated 12 November - yea even latest images are tad old. Development is tardy on P17, I hope they can cut some slack.

View attachment 33728 View attachment 33729

In the first image the lower ship is P17a.

Less than two years of work, pretty impressive progress. Can’t judge right now- both GRSE and MDL say they will deliver on time.

 

[THANOS]

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which design ?? upper one or the lower one ??

 

[Neeraj Mathur]

which design ?? upper one or the lower one ??

lower one is cgi created before model.
upper one is final

 

[Neeraj Mathur]

The scale drawing is "rather sleek" indeed... looks way more stealthy than the model (which look a bit different too)!

true
but as we have seen with most of the navy ships coming out of navy design bureau. the stealth is under water not over water.