Project-17A Nilgiri-class Frigate Thread

[Haldilal]

Hi, yeah, no photos, I was on the Freeway, its visible for hardly 2-3 seconds if you know where to look. From the freeway only the Kasara Wet Basin part is visible, it's where 1 P15-B & 1 P-17A are docked, if you look at G Maps. So I know that the ship I saw the mast superstructure (only the superstructures, no systems installed) was where the P-17A was docked. The mast head was not there in Mar '21. The P15-B's mast is visible on G Maps imiages from Jan '21.
This also means that P-17A definitely won't be ready for induction next year.

Ya'll Nibbiars I am going on the free way now If got chance will get the Photographs but hard as there are no parking areas near the MDL.

 

[Gessler]

Ya'll Nibbiars I am going on the free way now If got chance will click but hard as there are no parking areas near the MDL.

Turn on hazard lights and pull over.

 

[Dharani]

Ya'll Nibbiars I am going on the free way now If got chance will get the Photographs but hard as there are no parking areas near the MDL.

I'll try & get a video the next time I go there.

 

[Gessler]

I'll try & get a video the next time I go there.

Try for photos. They'll tell us all we need to know.

Video brings in whole bunch of variables like traffic noise, paanwallahs/sabjiwallahs yelling etc. and other such undesirable elements.



Not to mention, it doesn't really give any additional info - not when dealing with a static object.

 

[Haldilal]

Try for photos. They'll tell us all we need to know.

Video brings in whole bunch of variables like traffic noise, paanwallahs/sabjiwallahs yelling etc. and other such undesirable elements.



Not to mention, it doesn't really give any additional info - not when dealing with a static object.

Ya'll Nibbiars Freeway pe ye sab rehata hai kya?.

 

[Dharani]

Haha, yes, what I meant was I'll post a couple of frames from the video.

 

[Love Charger]

What ?? No photo mate

I pass from there many times in a month , i could never notice any ships etc being made

 

[Gessler]

Ya'll Nibbiars Freeway pe ye sab rehata hai kya?.

Ye India hai.

Freeway pe kya sadak ke beechon beech rehta hai ye sab.

 

[Haldilal]

Ye India hai.

Freeway pe kya sadak ke beechon beech rehta hai ye sab.

Ya'll Nibbiars this is not on the Eastern Freeway which is a 13 KM elevated flyower. And toadu could not get the Photographs as there was change in the plans.

 

[Dharani]

As luck would have it, got a chance to pass through yesterday, snap below shows radar mast superstructures for both P17-A & P15-B,sorry to get you all excited but only this much is visible
Now hope someone can pass-by GRSE too! Some issue with uploading images, sharing on link below.

MDL-Kasara-Basin

Image MDL-Kasara-Basin hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

 

[Gessler]

As luck would have it, got a chance to pass through yesterday, snap below shows radar mast superstructures for both P17-A & P15-B,sorry to get you all excited but only this much is visible
Now hope someone can pass-by GRSE too! Some issue with uploading images, sharing on link below.

MDL-Kasara-Basin

Image MDL-Kasara-Basin hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

Many thanks!

Yes that's indeed P-17A.

Great to see good progress...in the process of build from keel laying to launch there was zero difference between Nilgiri and Shivalik (which was built 20 years back), despite so-called "modular construction" being employed and that was disappointing to know...if there are improvements being made wrt build optimization, it will be seen right now...between launch & commissioning. This is the most time consuming portion of build, the fitting out process.

Hopefully some improvement will be seen.

 

[Dharani]

Modular construction should have bought down the keel laying to launch time. Even accounting for teething troubles for the first ship which took 21 months, the next one should have reduced the build time but here we are after 28 months, even in pandemic that is a uninspiring. Really wish the fitting out/trails time would be reduced but even after 24 months, it is noway near trails. Doesn't look like it will get inducted in 2022. Had wet dreams of having 4 major surface warships joining IN ( 1 Vzag + 2 Talwars + 1 Nilgiri) ini 2022 but guess those will remain just dreams
Can't wait for L&T gaining more share from MDL & GRSE.

 

[Gessler]

Can't wait for L&T gaining more share from MDL & GRSE.

Not with the MoD's current attitude of favoritism & 'nomination' culture.

Sometimes I think they are deliberately trying to scuttle Private enterprise. Did you notice how they only give contracts to Pvt yards that are in poor financial health (like ABG, RNaval, Alcock Ashdown)? Probably to make it seem to IN that Private yards can't be trusted.

Meanwhile, a top class company like L&T which has HUUUGE shipyards on both east & west coast, builds the Arihant-class SSBN hulls & now offering to build FSS for UK remains without any major orders from IN.

DPSUs need to die.

 

[Dharani]

Not with the MoD's current attitude of favoritism & 'nomination' culture.

Sometimes I think they are deliberately trying to scuttle Private enterprise. Did you notice how they only give contracts to Pvt yards that are in poor financial health (like ABG, RNaval, Alcock Ashdown)? Probably to make it seem to IN that Private yards can't be trusted.

Meanwhile, a top class company like L&T which has HUUUGE shipyards on both east & west coast, builds the Arihant-class SSBN hulls & now offering to build FSS for UK remains without any major orders from IN.

DPSUs need to die.

Absolutely, I think a kick to the bottom for PSU shipyards is due, just like OFB but MoD would wake up is the question.
Atleast no one can take nuke subs away from L&T. Funny to see that L&T has min-sub design but not orders.
MDL has told its investors that the govt may split the P75I order between MDL & L&T.
GRSE has subcontracted hull construction of 2 ASW-SWC & 2 Survey Vessels to L&T. Maybe that's a start, if L&T can deliver quicker than these yards & a superlative build quality (which it would be compared to GRSE) maybe it will get harder for MoD babus to find excuses.
Here's to hope!

 

[Gessler]

Absolutely, I think a kick to the bottom for PSU shipyards is due, just like OFB but MoD would wake up is the question.

I'm not very optimistic. Remember that the shipyards today are already at the point when OFB has now reached (corporate entities with GOI as biggest/only stakeholder), and their efficiency isn't anything to write home about.

So corporatization in of itself isn't likely to do any wonders as long as disinvestment doesn't happen & as long as the companies have the endlessly deep pockets of GOI (thanks to taxpayer's money) to fall back on. Not to mention the inherent conflict of interest of the Govt awarding a contract to a Govt-owned company.

What corporatization CAN do, is to open the doors for eventual Privatization i.e. as happened now with Air India. Unless some of India's big business houses take control of these shipyards, nothing really good is gonna happen.

Atleast no one can take nuke subs away from L&T.

From what I've heard, it was actually the Russians that chose L&T as the production partner. GOI at the time was insistent that the work be handled by a Govt-owned company (citing security & other such reasons), but the Russian side was adamant that none of the state-owned engineering houses at the time were capable of absorbing the technology of constructing nuclear submarine hulls - where the metallurgy & steelwork is in a totally different league compared to surface ships or even diesel subs (much lower diving depths require stronger characteristics, not to mention shielding from the reactor radiation).

The nuke subs represented strategic deterrence so the babus couldn't meddle any further, they had to give in.

So the fact that no one can take nuke subs away from L&T certainly isn't due to lack of trying on the part of GOI.

Funny to see that L&T has min-sub design but not orders.

Yeah, cuz MoD gave the 2 x SOV order to HSL on a platter.

L&T protested but to no avail. On the one hand a company that builds 7,000-ton SSBNs, and on the other a DPSU that bungled the refit work of a Kilo-class for NINE YEARS.

Guess which one was "nominated" by MoD for the contract? Certainly not L&T.

MDL has told its investors that the govt may split the P75I order between MDL & L&T.

Interesting...hadn't heard/paid attention to this.

This could unnecessarily complicate the situation & inflate cost by a lot. The P75I, provided the French offer is selected, is one contract where I actually would prefer if it stays with MDL. We've already put in over a decade's work & billions of dollars into developing MDL's ability to build Naval Group subs. If a design like SMX 3.0 which has a good amount of commonality with Scorpene is selected, that could translate into significant savings of time & money.

On the other hand, having a Private-sector yard capable of building large diesel subs could turn into a much better net benefit in the long run.

 

[Dharani]

I'm not very optimistic. Remember that the shipyards today are already at the point when OFB has now reached (corporate entities with GOI as biggest/only stakeholder), and their efficiency isn't anything to write home about.

So corporatization in of itself isn't likely to do any wonders as long as disinvestment doesn't happen & as long as the companies have the endlessly deep pockets of GOI (thanks to taxpayer's money) to fall back on. Not to mention the inherent conflict of interest of the Govt awarding a contract to a Govt-owned company.

What corporatization CAN do, is to open the doors for eventual Privatization i.e. as happened now with Air India. Unless some of India's big business houses take control of these shipyards, nothing really good is gonna happen.



From what I've heard, it was actually the Russians that chose L&T as the production partner. GOI at the time was insistent that the work be handled by a Govt-owned company (citing security & other such reasons), but the Russian side was adamant that none of the state-owned engineering houses at the time were capable of absorbing the technology of constructing nuclear submarine hulls - where the metallurgy & steelwork is in a totally different league compared to surface ships or even diesel subs (much lower diving depths require stronger characteristics, not to mention shielding from the reactor radiation).

The nuke subs represented strategic deterrence so the babus couldn't meddle any further, they had to give in.

So the fact that no one can take nuke subs away from L&T certainly isn't due to lack of trying on the part of GOI.

Damn, this is one of the most depressing MoD babu story I've heard in a while.

Yeah, cuz MoD gave the 2 x SOV order to HSL on a platter.

L&T protested but to no avail. On the one hand a company that builds 7,000-ton SSBNs, and on the other a DPSU that bungled the refit work of a Kilo-class for NINE YEARS.

Guess which one was "nominated" by MoD for the contract? Certainly not L&T.



Interesting...hadn't heard/paid attention to this.

This could unnecessarily complicate the situation & inflate cost by a lot. The P75I, provided the French offer is selected, is one contract where I actually would prefer if it stays with MDL. We've already put in over a decade's work & billions of dollars into developing MDL's ability to build Naval Group subs. If a design like SMX 3.0 which has a good amount of commonality with Scorpene is selected, that could translate into significant savings of time & money.

On the other hand, having a Private-sector yard capable of building large diesel subs could turn into a much better net benefit in the long run.

Yeah, they said as much in an investor concall for quarterly results, I agree it will inflate costs but it will also ensure we have a base & a technically capable firm for creating the next generation of indigenous subs. Also, L&T might also export these even if MoD babus still stick to 10 year employment schemes veiled as submarine construction projects, atleast we won't have to start from scratch again. Even the LPD/LHD tender which was earlier reserved for private players is open for DPSUs now. What a waste.
But in my noob opinion L&T can be a desi BAE if it somehow, miraculously it survives the babudom.

 

[Gessler]

 

[Alfalfa]

Ban Nong and Guo Wengui, the two masked brothers, are really dependent on each other. This is not because Guo Wengui's front foot has just been accused of raping a female secretary and involved a well-known short seller as an airport yuan in the illegal fund-raising case, and now he has a huge loss of $539 million. Ban Nong, his back foot good brother, is also facing charges for refusing to cooperate with the judicial investigation. Ban Nong has no guarantee of life before the law, and there is no possibility of amnesty.

Im sure Bang Gong and Co. are super important to the Indian Frigate program...

Mods can someone hand Wumao here a rap on the knuckles please

 

[Love Charger]

Ban Nong and Guo Wengui, the two masked brothers, are really dependent on each other. This is not because Guo Wengui's front foot has just been accused of raping a female secretary and involved a well-known short seller as an airport yuan in the illegal fund-raising case, and now he has a huge loss of $539 million. Ban Nong, his back foot good brother, is also facing charges for refusing to cooperate with the judicial investigation. Ban Nong has no guarantee of life before the law, and there is no possibility of amnesty.

Okay sir , ask long dong to give amnesty to bang nong

 

[swapcv]

Ban Nong and Guo Wengui, the two masked brothers, are really dependent on each other. This is not because Guo Wengui's front foot has just been accused of raping a female secretary and involved a well-known short seller as an airport yuan in the illegal fund-raising case, and now he has a huge loss of $539 million. Ban Nong, his back foot good brother, is also facing charges for refusing to cooperate with the judicial investigation. Ban Nong has no guarantee of life before the law, and there is no possibility of amnesty.

I'm sorry my Mandarin is as shit as Xi's English, all I heard was "Bang Bang gong gong", could you translate, thank you.