Privatization of strategic assets: National security concerns

[LurkerBaba]

TATA is Also using engines from Cummins ( American company )



Transmission systems / gearbox of ZF Friedrichshafen ( German company ) . Suspensions by Hendrickson Inc ( American company ) , similarly most of the important parts .

but still you don't consider it screwdrivergiri ??

Cummins has a pretty big presence in India where they manufacture and design engines. The video you posted is of their Indian unit. What do you expect ? Everything should be manufactured by "Indian" companies ?

This is pre-90s mentality. Today everyone is part of the global supply chain

 

[LurkerBaba]

Read more at:
http://m.timesofindia.com/articlesh...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

Does this apply to babus ? India is probably the only major country which doesn't have the capability to hire and fire bureaucrats at will

 

[LurkerBaba]

I don't understand the love for BSNL, has anyone who loves BSNL actually gone to BSNL office to get some work done?

The problem stems from the fact that most folks on this site (and probably in India) despite their "right wing" credentials are closet socialists

https://defenceforumindia.com/threads/left-vs-right-which-side-of-the-political-divide-do-you-stand.26118/page-10

 

[LordOfTheUnderworlds]

Central staffers have no shield against early retirement: Go ..

Read more at:
http://m.timesofindia.com/articlesh...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

^^^ talking of patterns, now that we have seen how crypto jew Imran Khans government simply imported agents from London with foreign nationality and blatantly gave them ministerial powers, it will be interesting to reflect back to decision of BJP government under Modi few years ago of so called horizontal recruitment or lateral entry or something like that in highest position in government; and to compare this tactic.

Basically what this government did was appoint their own selected people, (? probably a lot of them from RSS background or were they from some altogether different background ?) to the levels of secretaries, flouting all the norms. Unlike central government employees that who go through well laid out system of recruitment exams, promotions etc, these outsiders got direct entry into highest levels of governance. They used buzzwards like 'merit' 'professionals' for justification and their upper caste chattering class supoorters gleefully watched, probably thinking in their mind look how 'our' government circumvented 'reservations' to weed off lowly people. (Even though previously too very few low caste peoole could reach highest level in administration).
But in retrospect can this strategy be compared to Imran Khans strategy of appointing foreign nationality 'advisers to PM' ?

 

[26/11]

Socialism is so much ingrained in us that after 45 years (1947-1992) of experimenting with it and failing miserably at it, we are still busy defending the model.
The debate can go on forever about whose fault it is, but the fact remains that government organisations are underperforming. Air India today has accumulated loss of almost 70,000 crores. Can India afford this luxury?
As long as tax payer loss because of NPAs, the key lies in privatising banks, not losing more taxpayer money on them.

 

[Suryavanshi]

The problem stems from the fact that most folks on this site (and probably in India) despite their "right wing" credentials are closet socialists

https://defenceforumindia.com/threads/left-vs-right-which-side-of-the-political-divide-do-you-stand.26118/page-10

I think we have already talked about this Western benchmark of socialism dosen't really fit our bill. There isn't anything inherently wrong with socialism, its all about implementing it in a proper way.

When I say Socialism I mean a government owned and operated company that exists for public well being, because goods and services are a necessity.
At the end of the there are two key factors of Socialism that has been ignored while implementing not only in India but throughout the world.
The Two factors are - Accountability and Sustainability.

Sustainability because a system that is not sustainable in the long run is useless and a burned on a country. A PSU dosen't need to amass large profit but they don't need to run into losses either. If PSU are sustained by Tax payers than it must work for the good of the country.
Next is accountability the most important part after sustainable system is made. Now it is not unknown to anyone that how BSNL performs, yet we are here making excuses to them. The Governments boner for ensuring Jobs safety leads to non performance of workers. Aside from that Pensions eat away at on budget. From my point of view pensions never was a good idea.

I would still wish for BSNL to return and hold grab of Market.

 

[26/11]

^^^ talking of patterns, now that we have seen how crypto jew Imran Khans government simply imported agents from London with foreign nationality and blatantly gave them ministerial powers, it will be interesting to reflect back to decision of BJP government under Modi few years ago of so called horizontal recruitment or lateral entry or something like that in highest position in government; and to compare this tactic.

Basically what this government did was appoint their own selected people, (? probably a lot of them from RSS background or were they from some altogether different background ?) to the levels of secretaries, flouting all the norms. Unlike central government employees that who go through well laid out system of recruitment exams, promotions etc, these outsiders got direct entry into highest levels of governance. They used buzzwards like 'merit' 'professionals' for justification and their upper caste chattering class supoorters gleefully watched, probably thinking in their mind look how 'our' government circumvented 'reservations' to weed off lowly people. (Even though previously too very few low caste peoole could reach highest level in administration).
But in retrospect can this strategy be compared to Imran Khans strategy of appointing foreign nationality 'advisers to PM' ?

Leaving the caste debate aside. There is huge debate around the concept of generalisation vs specialisation. IAS babus can be generalists, but for some projects you need people from specialist background because of the complications of projects involved. e.g. Nandan Nilekani for UADAI. Government should be open to hire best talent from anywhere in India.

 

[Suryavanshi]

Basically what this government did was appoint their own selected people,

Like Countries all over the world do and do better than IAS, IPS run department.

? probably a lot of them from RSS background or were they from some altogether different background ?

Government recruits from ideological backgrounds probably because the system is driven by a different ideology hostile to the current government.

flouting all the norms

norms and laws can be changed as per wishes if it for the good of people

Unlike central government employees that who go through well laid out system of recruitment exams, promotions etc, these outsiders got direct entry into highest levels of governance.

Are they recruiting no qualification Bajrang Dal members to lead OFB, SAIL, GAIL. Those who are being recruited are the ones who have been former CEOs employee reputed managers or simply competent people who can aid the government.
Passing an exam dosent mean u will become Bill gates or Satya Nadella.

They used buzzwards like 'merit' 'professionals' for justification and their upper caste chattering class supoorters gleefully watched

This thought is a product of a very imaginative mind

probably thinking in their mind look how 'our' government circumvented 'reservations' to weed off lowly people.

I know u are an ardent speaker for Lower castes right from my time spent on this forum, even your username reflects that but u gotta understand sometimes that Reservation has some inherent flaw and casteism wont go away until unfeminine it themselves.

 

[LordOfTheUnderworlds]

^^^ talking of patterns, now that we have seen how crypto jew Imran Khans government simply imported agents from London with foreign nationality and blatantly gave them ministerial powers, it will be interesting to reflect back to decision of BJP government under Modi few years ago of so called horizontal recruitment or lateral entry or something like that in highest position in government; and to compare this tactic.

Basically what this government did was appoint their own selected people, (? probably a lot of them from RSS background or were they from some altogether different background ?) to the levels of secretaries, flouting all the norms. Unlike central government employees that who go through well laid out system of recruitment exams, promotions etc, these outsiders got direct entry into highest levels of governance. They used buzzwards like 'merit' 'professionals' for justification and their upper caste chattering class supoorters gleefully watched, probably thinking in their mind look how 'our' government circumvented 'reservations' to weed off lowly people. (Even though previously too very few low caste peoole could reach highest level in administration).
But in retrospect can this strategy be compared to Imran Khans strategy of appointing foreign nationality 'advisers to PM' ?

Modi govt plans big revamp of top bureaucracy, to induct 400 experts from private sector

Modi govt now plans to hire 400 directors and deputy secretaries through lateral entry

Many cadre officers are unwilling to come on central deputation, so Modi govt plans to fill massive vacancies and increase efficiency in one stroke.

Exclusive: How anomalies flagged by babus went unheard in recruitment of Joint Secretaries via lateral entry
.


Whistleblower Sanjiv Chaturvedi moves CAT against lateral entry into govt

Is this true???...

The application adds that this system supersedes the vigilance clearance and integrity evaluation established under the All India Services (Performance Appraisal Report) Rules of 2007.

 

[LordOfTheUnderworlds]

Leaving the caste debate aside. There is huge debate around the concept of generalisation vs specialisation. IAS babus can be generalists, but for some projects you need people from specialist background because of the complications of projects involved. e.g. Nandan Nilekani for UADAI. Government should be open to hire best talent from anywhere in India.

Okay but hopefully with vigilance clearance, and for high posts, clearance from intelligence agencies.

 

[26/11]

I think we have already talked about this Western benchmark of socialism dosen't really fit our bill. There isn't anything inherently wrong with socialism, its all about implementing it in a proper way.

When I say Socialism I mean a government owned and operated company that exists for public well being, because goods and services are a necessity.
At the end of the there are two key factors of Socialism that has been ignored while implementing not only in India but throughout the world.
The Two factors are - Accountability and Sustainability.

Sustainability because a system that is not sustainable in the long run is useless and a burned on a country. A PSU dosen't need to amass large profit but they don't need to run into losses either. If PSU are sustained by Tax payers than it must work for the good of the country.
Next is accountability the most important part after sustainable system is made. Now it is not unknown to anyone that how BSNL performs, yet we are here making excuses to them. The Governments boner for ensuring Jobs safety leads to non performance of workers. Aside from that Pensions eat away at on budget. From my point of view pensions never was a good idea.

I would still wish for BSNL to return and hold grab of Market.

Bull's eye!!
But issue of accountability is from top to bottom (from political boss to ground staff) but there is huge resitance to change. Public sector banks are trying for years to link pay with performance, with zero success. The same story is with most PSU organizations. When you can neither reward good performance not discourage poor performance, the result will be poor work environment. Anyone who has visited the government office to get any work done can vouch for this poor work culture.

 

[26/11]

Okay but hopefully with vigilance clearance, and for high posts, clearance from intelligence agencies.

Any government post should come with intelligence clearance. Vigilance clearance applies to case of promotion as vigilance deals with corruption complaints, so their ability to access new hires will be limited. But this part can be handled by intelligence bureau.
Intelligence certificate should be must for any government employee. We have seen too many radicals taking up government jobs.

 

[26/11]

Any government post should come with intelligence clearance. Vigilance clearance applies to case of promotion as vigilance deals with corruption complaints, so their ability to access new hires will be limited. But this part can be handled by intelligence bureau.
Intelligence certificate should be must for any government employee. We have seen too many radicals taking up government jobs.

Narendra Modi Government: Lateral entrants for joint secretary positions will need 2 referees for background check

This is akin to a global practice, and one that many companies in India follow, but the govt may be experimenting with this idea for the first time.

economictimes.indiatimes.com

This article from 2018 note that Intelligence clearance is part of selection process for all high level posts from begining, so it might be just a hoax from some disgruntled babu.

The government aims to make these appointments by September-October after the application process is wrapped up by the end of July. As in the case of all private candidates joining the government, an Intelligence Bureau clearance will be needed for shot-listed candidates.

 

[Rassil Krishnan]

The problem stems from the fact that most folks on this site (and probably in India) despite their "right wing" credentials are closet socialists

https://defenceforumindia.com/threads/left-vs-right-which-side-of-the-political-divide-do-you-stand.26118/page-10

Yes I am a nationalist socialist types guy who thinks similar to the average CCP party way.using capitalism to build economy to ultimately benefit only our own people and culture only and also not afraid to put limitations according to need when necessary including in the case of speech don't jump to conclusions,just think how many of our problems would have been solved if some voices were muzzled and others promoted.

 

[Narsimha]

Threads like these make me wonder that dabbawala babus even exist on forums like this. Never imagined them to be able to use internet.

 

[Rassil Krishnan]

The problem with capitalism that no onementions is that if you want a good nationalist spirit within a country let alone a government you must understand that itis in the interest of large private companies, especially multinationals,it is in their Interest to dilute nationalist consciousness and culture within any country.it is also to be noted that they are never truly in your control even in a classical liberla society never mind a neoliberla society.if your government does an action following a nationalist agenda (eg: art 370 removal,Ram temple) there is a high chance that these companies can turn on your government and ultimately the Indeginous country people.they will not support the government and may withdraw their investment.

On the other hand even though the major advantage of PSUs is Control and domestic capabilities, the major PSUs in some sectors of India like OFB do not even have those advantages as they have frequent protests for political reasons and also don't give control to the ruling party much,which throwers away their few advantages in comparison to private companies.

That is why the china approach is better for india.where there should be redundant PSUs in some strategic sectors and the rest must be private or private public companies under appropriate regulation to keep competition alive and we must cut loose certain PSUs in loss making unstrategic sectors.

 

[airtel]

I don't understand the love for BSNL, has anyone who loves BSNL actually gone to BSNL office to get some work done?

SBI gets a lot of flack but if you visit any SBI branch you will see them neck deep in people, no private sector bank gets that much footfall in a week which they get in a day, even I have bad experiences with SBI but BSNL is on another level. Nobody comes to office on time, no one knows what is going on even after working for decades in the same office, its almost as if they think they can outsource every technical work to private companies & then just get salary every month without doing even the tasks that they are supposed to do.

The assumption that you need a public telecom company for reach to rural areas for telecom is wrong & Reliance Infocomm did that with 2G & now Jio with 4G.

The organisation culture may be bad at BSNL but that is the problem of it's management , they didn't utilized their resources professionally .

And such culture can be changed , just look at the management of Delhi metro .

But government didn't try to make BSNL better , they just stopped it from providing 4G services and high speed internet and removed the competition from market and now Indian telecom market is going towards duopoly .

 

[airtel]

Does this apply to babus ? India is probably the only major country which doesn't have the capability to hire and fire bureaucrats at will

If government is not going to provide job security ( untill They are involved in corruption or lethargy ) to it's officers then it would loose their loyalty .

They get this job after passing one of the most difficult competitive exam in the world .
Job of ias/IPS is Very difficult most of them have to work 16-18 hours a day in high pressure environment and they rarely get holidays .

Salaries of high ranking officers in India is Very low as compared to the responsibilities they are handling .

The people who leave IAS/IPS/irs or high ranking posts in army get Very high paying Jobs based on their experience .

If government start removing officers at Will ( sometimes due to political pressure ) then these officers ( educated and extremely smart ) would harm the interests of GOI or maybe they would leave their Jobs and join multinational companies at top positions .

IAS officers make a beeline for greener pastures in private sector

The power and charms of the Indian Administrative Service (IAS), much- coveted by youngsters, are apparently not able to keep a hold on many bureaucrats for long. In the last 10 years, 181 IAS officers have left their jobs to join big corporate houses.

www.indiatoday.in

 

[airtel]

Cummins has a pretty big presence in India where they manufacture and design engines. The video you posted is of their Indian unit. What do you expect ? Everything should be manufactured by "Indian" companies ?

This is pre-90s mentality. Today everyone is part of the global supply chain

This is pre-90s mentality. Today everyone is part of the global supply chain

How many Indian companies are involved in making important parts like ( engine , gearbox , transmission systems etc of trucks used in USA , Canada South Korea Japan etc )

Why Indian companies are not involved in " global supply chain "
Of critical components used in American Japanese or Korean
Equipments ?

My comment was for BEML , if they are doing screwdrivergiri then what Tata is doing ? Both of them are just assembling the components made by other companies .

 

[Suryavanshi]

How many Indian companies are involved in making important parts like ( engine , gearbox , transmission systems etc of trucks used in USA , Canada South Korea Japan etc )

Why Indian companies are not involved in " global supply chain "
Of critical components used in American Japanese or Korean
Equipments ?

India moves up 14 spots to 63 on World Bank's ease of doing business ranking


One of the reason