Nag anti-tank Missile

[Twinblade]

Re: Nag series trials for 18 days

Try reading the history of other comparable system before you shoot off your mouth. Hellfire originally came with an option of switching warheads before mission to tandem shaped charge and blast fragmentation warhead, the latest versions come with IBFS warhead which can function as both. A similar type of warhead is used on PARS-3/Trigat and Spike-ER (the 35 kg version, something which Indian forces wish Nag would be, the 35 kg weight demand is not a coincidence, the user knows it has been done and they want the same from developer Not comparable to industry standard, but comparable to best in the industry).

Nope, only you, who thinks that missiles are designed to be fitted with only one warhead type and things like Blast Fragmentation Sleeve warhead do not exist.

Some Points:

1. There are air-bust Shaped Charge but never on ATGM..

Not really, Hellfire/Brimstone, PARS 3/Trigat and Spike all feature blast fragmentation sleeve.

Can one have an example of shape charge which is expected to burst in the air and to what avail? Once explosive is shaped charged, it would not defy logic of basic physics !! It would form a jet and not burst !!

The question has been answered, but a more detail answer FWIW.

Tracking Down Gaza War's Deadly, Mysterious Cubes | Danger Room | Wired.com

The part on how a blast fragmentation sleeve converts a shaped charge into frag warhead.

Like virtually all anti-tank missiles, the Spike has a shaped charge warhead, which produces a narrow jet of metal at very high velocity. This is excellent for slicing through armor, but does little damage to anything not immediately in front of the missile. Blast alone is not an effective killer for a small warhead. To turn an anti-tank missile into a general purpose one capable of damaging other targets (such as people or soft vehicles), the answer is invariably to add a "fragmentation sleeve."

This is wrapped around the warhead to produce lethal fragments, which are much more deadly than blast alone. The procedure was done to turn the anti-tank Hellfire into the general-purpose AGM-114K Hellfire, and to transform the Viper-Strike from an anti-armor weapons to anti-everything. The tungsten cubes in Viper Strike weigh 15-30 grains, which would correspond to an three to four-and-a-half millimeter cube, approximately. In other words, right in the range of Amnesty's mysterious weapon.

 

[Bhadra]

Re: Nag series trials for 18 days

@kunal

An explosively formed penetrator (EFP), also known as an explosively formed projectile, a self-forging warhead, or a self-forging fragment, is a special type of shaped charge designed to penetrate armour effectively at standoff distances. As the name suggests, the effect of the explosive charge is to deform a metal plate into a slug or rod shape and accelerate it toward a target. They were first developed during WWII.[1]

OK it is never on a missle !. But Twinblade insists, it is. That is why hellfire has more than seven varieties.
I asked how can a shape charge result into fragmentation? While twinblade has given a logical explanation by saying that special sleeves be inserted to convert a jet into all round fragmentation, what you are quoting is a technique for forming a shaped charge jet through means other than missiles.

I hope the difference between forming a shape charged slug jet and causing unshaped fragmentation blast is understood ?

Even if one accepts what twinblade is saying, it means the NAG missile has to be two types. One with sleeve and the other without sleeve. He in vain is explaining Hellfire rather than Nag.

 

[Bhadra]

Re: Nag series trials for 18 days

Diagram above given by Saya clearly shows a tandem warhead with a metal cone and nothing of a sleeve or that EEP gibberish !! A look at the actual missile photo also clearly shows a clear stand off distance between the seeker and warhead.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: Nag series trials for 18 days

so how does it seeks a target at 4.5 km without seeing it

The Hindu : States / Andhra Pradesh : Another round of Nag trials in June-July

Your Answer is not given there but here, Read the following

The Vehicle have its own IR and Optical view by which Operator track and lock the target at 4-5kms range, Then the information is passed on to the NAG seeker where the image is kept in a flash memory, Once the missile launched the seeker activates and it take photos of the target ever millisecond and match the photo given by the operator before launch, It keep it course and at striking distance it preform its command of straight attack or top attack course..

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The same technology is applied in Javelin and new generation Anti-ship missiles..

I hope the difference between forming a shape charged slug jet and causing unshaped fragmentation blast is understood ?

@kunal

I asked how can a shape charge result into fragmentation? .

It was meant for you, I was talking about Burst not fragmentation which you didn't mentioned there..

Even if one accepts what twinblade is saying, it means the NAG missile has to be two types. One with sleeve and the other without sleeve. He in vain is explaining Hellfire rather than Nag.

He didnt meant two type of NAG..

But two type of warheads for NAG..

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Its your lack of understanding of ATGM, Mixing a heavy category ATGM with Light class ATGM category..

 

[Bhadra]

Re: Nag series trials for 18 days

The answer is contained here:

The Vehicle have its own IR and Optical view by which Operator track and lock the target at 4-5kms range

The operator has got to see and lock on the target (It has to be in LoS). Then the missile can track it through the obtained thermal signatures. While the airfoece version will have LOAL by which the missile will seek its target in the general area it is fired.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: Nag series trials for 18 days

Never-mind..

 

[Bhadra]

Re: Nag series trials for 18 days

Not really, Hellfire/Brimstone, PARS 3/Trigat and Spike all feature blast fragmentation sleeve.



The question has been answered, but a more detail answer FWIW.

Tracking Down Gaza War's Deadly, Mysterious Cubes | Danger Room | Wired.com

The part on how a blast fragmentation sleeve converts a shaped charge into frag warhead.

Well put a strong wire mesh in front of the metal cone which will produce multiple slugs to destroy the target. Still what you explained is not a fragmentation blast. It still continues to be jet formation process fragmented by a mesh.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: Nag series trials for 18 days

Well put a strong wire mesh in front of the metal cone which will produce multiple slugs to destroy the target. Still what you explained is not a fragmentation blast. It still continues to be jet formation process fragmented by a mesh.

Its actually a dual role..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: Nag series trials for 18 days

here is the pic where nag use 4 motors in addition to main rocket motor.

this shows how it keeps track of target while going on top attack mode.

its trajectory is just like javelin missile

helina trajectory

pic i took in 2008 shows tandem warhead

And it moves 360 ..

 

[Bhadra]

Re: Nag series trials for 18 days

OK Thanks all of you ... I gained something .

 

[agentperry]

Re: Nag series trials for 18 days

the problem was that namica couldnt function beyond 2.5 kms in desert areas of rajasthan so now after modification i guess they can work well upto their listed range of 4 kms. if this can happen then i guess army will abide by its promise to buy nag in huge quantity. ( they said they deffer from buying nag in bulk because of this and bought only limited no of nag ie 443 for punjab sector)

 

[kaustav2001]

Re: Nag series trials for 18 days

The question has been answered, but a more detail answer FWIW.
Tracking Down Gaza War's Deadly, Mysterious Cubes | Danger Room | Wired.com

Very interesting, thanks for sharing.

 

[Bhadra]

Re: Nag series trials for 18 days

the problem was that namica couldnt function beyond 2.5 kms in desert areas of rajasthan so now after modification i guess they can work well upto their listed range of 4 kms. if this can happen then i guess army will abide by its promise to buy nag in huge quantity. ( they said they deffer from buying nag in bulk because of this and bought only limited no of nag ie 443 for punjab sector)

How can the numbers be huge when Namica is sector specific and there is less applicability of missile for Punjab? No applicability for jungles, mountains, high altitude !

Had it been portable / shoulder fired, numbers certainly can be surprisingly huge.

 

[sayareakd]

Re: Nag series trials for 18 days

Do not forget you eat away 12 per cent of defence budget, more than Navy.

:clobber:

if you want foreign weapons, make sure you import foreign Generals and even foreign soldiers. Then wait for them to screw you.

 

[sayareakd]

Re: Nag series trials for 18 days

old pic

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: Nag series trials for 18 days

How can the numbers be huge when Namica is sector specific and there is less applicability of missile for Punjab? No applicability for jungles, mountains, high altitude !

Had it been portable / shoulder fired, numbers certainly can be surprisingly huge.

Namica is not deign to operate in a single sector, It can work in any range against any target, Its good in Mountains too..

ATGM dont work in dense jungle so does underwater..


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After listening whole Ramayana, Are you asking Sita was Ram`s sister ?

 

[Bhadra]

Re: Nag series trials for 18 days

namica is not deign to operate in a single sector, it can work in any range against any target, its good in mountains too..

Atgm dont work in dense jungle so does underwater..


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after listening whole ramayana, are you asking sita was ram`s sister ?

produce in large numbers and let us see who buys those. You are not going to decide requirement of ia.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: Nag series trials for 18 days

produce in large numbers and let us see who buys those. You are not going to decide requirement of ia.

I am not claiming requirement of IA but GSQR does..

 

[Bhadra]

Re: Nag series trials for 18 days

forget it. Namica and Nag are No where near GSQR. Quote the GSQR if you can !

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: Nag series trials for 18 days

forget it. Namica and Nag are No where near GSQR. Quote the GSQR if you can !

It would be nice if you post it, I am not able to find it..