MRCA News & Dicussions (IV)

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p2prada

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Economy & Recovery from Financial debt will definitely take its toll . Much different to what US was in 90's .
The Americans have plenty of money for defence. They will make budget cuts in other departments and maybe force China to buy more dollars and decrease the budget deficit.

To MRCA -
In terms of offsets & political leverage probably only EADS with political strength of 4 nations can compete against US & L.M/Boeing.
It will be uphill task for Mig to get offsets in Private industry in India .
TATA/Mahindra/Wipro/HAl have all tied up with EADS/Boeing/SAAB . Boeing & EADS have even promised tech&res center in Bangalore . This all things might not be factor for IAF but for MoD these offerings will swing deal here or there .
I think HAL experience with Boeing & Airbus would be counted . Russian still bet on decade old Bureaucratic trump card
Russians can handle offset conditions much easier than the other countries. It is because of the PAKFA program. Maybe some parts of it can be handled by India, if not development, then testing and manufacturing. They can also transfer technology for local manufacturing of the RD-33 compared to assembly that is happening now. MiG is setting up a sales and supply factory in India too.

No matter who wins, I bet we will order the Mig-35s to extend the Mig-29 squadrons.

Don't know why this lackluster response from Dassault , they are more focuused on UAE & Brazil . Only tied with up some local firms in AI09 wrt to luxury jet - Falcon . They decided to take Rafale to UAE air-show but refused to bring it in India . Must be mentally they have decided - If US is there we have no chance to win .
Rafale is awesome and their no show during the air show was because of budget deficit. They had spent all their money they were supposed to spend on International Air shows. I am not overly bothered about it though. The Sarkozy visit was much more appealing and more high profile than a Rafale in India.

Rafale is competing with the Superhornet in Brazil and they have high hopes of winning the deal too. UAE is a done deal. They only need to announce the day they sign on the dotted line.

But I have high hopes for the EF-2000. The words of the Germans(Ambassador) and the timing of the visit by Cameron shows something is cooking. Program Partner is way better than just Buying-Selling. I am looking forward to the day we will export ready made EF-2000s to other countries, if we choose EF.
 

sunnyv

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But I have high hopes for the EF-2000. The words of the Germans(Ambassador) and the timing of the visit by Cameron shows something is cooking. Program Partner is way better than just Buying-Selling. I am looking forward to the day we will export ready made EF-2000s to other countries, if we choose EF.
Eurofighter will take lot of nurturing from India , like we did with MKI and keep doing it even today .
If some reports are to be believed we need a Multi-role with emphasis on Strike role / Stand of range and weapons .
Sadly most of the A2G weapons + Targeting pods are yet to be tested on typhoon .
I mean
HARM/ALARM
JDAM/HOSBO
JSOW , Paveway4 are yet to be tested .

Not sure what IAF wants for pod but if LITENING is logical choice , that too will take time . I mean Eurofighter needs to get it first .

AESA will only be fully operational in 2015
 

nrj

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Any European contender's A2G capability can be enhanced IMO by the upcoming A2G Meteor or the air-launched Brahmos-I/II. However, I am not sure about the later one.
 

sunnyv

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NRJ old news , but interesting one

This is from BATTLESPACE. UPDATE Vol.7 ISSUE 40


RUSSIA THREATENS TO RETAIN BrahMos SOURCE CODE
By Bulbul Singh

10 Oct 05. Russia has threatened that it will not give away the source code which will enable the supersonic Cruise missile BrahMos to be mounted on foreign made platforms, including the recently contracted French Scorpene or the Multirole Medium Range Combat Aircraft (MMRCA)which India is buying from the global market.

Sources in the Indian defense ministry say, Moscow has made it known to the Indian defense planners that there is no guarantee that it will allow India to mount the BrahMos cruise missile on third country platforms until the Intellectual Property Rights (IPR)dispute is settled.

Sources in the Indian defense ministry however say it is part of Moscow's pressure in the run up to the MMRCA procurement program of the Indian government.

India is on a global hunt for a contract worth $5bn for the procurement of 126 MMRCA for the Indian Air Force into which Russia has also fielded its MiG 29 MRCA aircraft. The other contenders are Dassault of France with the Mirage 2000-5; Saab of Sweden with the Gripen; Lockheed Martin of United States with the F-16 and Boeing of United States with the F-18.

An executive of the Rosoboronoexport of Russia based in New Delhi however said, Russia is perturbed over the delay in the settlement of the IPR issue adding that it is not possible for Russia to contribute hi-tech technologies to India without much return.

The BrahMos anti-ship supersonic cruise missile is a joint development effort of India and Russia in which India's defense research agency, Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO)is contracted with NPOM of the Russian Federation.

The BrahMos, which is being introduced into the Indian Navy, is a 300 kilometers range supersonic anti ship cruise missile and the land and sea versions of the Cruise missiles are also being tested. The missile is one of the most potent precision guided weapons developed for the Indian armed forces in recent.

However Russia now insists that the BrahMos export, and other technological aspects including the source code, should be linked to the solving of the IPR issue which has held back further research and development between India and Russia. In fact there has been no signing of any defense contract between India and Russia since the United Progressive Alliance government came to power in May 2004.

Russia has held back the lease of a nuclear submarine, the TU-22 Backfire bomber capable of delivery nuclear weapons, and various other weapons and equipment under negotiations between India and Russia for several years.

The sticky parts of the IPR issue are the supply of spares from Russia for even erstwhile USSR-made weaponry currently with the Indian defense forces. The other issue is the up-grading of the Russian made systems by a third country. India is contemplating the upgrade of a large chunk of its USSR weapons and equipment with Western technology, a move that is not to the liking of the Russians. It is estimated that the upgrade market alone of aging USSR weapons with the Indian defense forces is around $10 to $15bn.

"The threat of Russia now allowing mounting of the BrahMos cruise missile on a third country platform is only an arms twisting policy to which Moscow often resorts," said an Indian Army official.

However an Indian Air Force official admitted that the acquisition of BrahMos could be linked to the sale of the MIG 29 MRCA by the Russians.

The Mirage 2000-5 of France is the most favored aircraft within the Indian Air Force for the MMRCA. The procurement of MMRCA will however be a political decision.
 

nrj

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@Sunnyv

Heard it sometime back so said I am not sure about the Brahmos. Although I think, some upside negotiations in price & Brahmos can land in IAF's MRCA. IAF is just another customer for Brahmos corp. installing its missile on India's indegenous MRCA (which is the plan.) Already expensive Brahmos is looking for market. And we shouldn't expect that integration in introductory MRCAs but yeah in the follow-up Blocks, possibilities can't be denied (Coupled with the fact that this integration is technically feasible.)
 

luckyy

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Program Partner is way better than just Buying-Selling. I am looking forward to the day we will export ready made EF-2000s to other countries, if we choose EF.
absolutly !..
i echo on it ...

partnering the project , we will get the latest not the trimed export version...
and MoD looking for acces to dule use of technology , is not possible in buy/sell ...but only when you are a partner...
EF does looks costly now , but in long run it's worth spending money to join the EF program....and cost could be controled by local menufecturing....
 
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luckyy

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Eurofighter will take lot of nurturing from India , like we did with MKI and keep doing it even today .
If some reports are to be believed we need a Multi-role with emphasis on Strike role / Stand of range and weapons .
Sadly most of the A2G weapons + Targeting pods are yet to be tested on typhoon .
I mean
HARM/ALARM
JDAM/HOSBO
JSOW , Paveway4 are yet to be tested .

Not sure what IAF wants for pod but if LITENING is logical choice , that too will take time . I mean Eurofighter needs to get it first .

AESA will only be fully operational in 2015
EF already has A2G capabilities ....

"The final phase of flight trials were conducted in Europe to test the fighter's cutting edge weapons systems and advanced sensors. The exercises included dropping precision guided munitions and launching air-to-air and air-to-ground missiles," Casolini added.
Eurofighter used two Typhoons of the German Air Force's squadron 73, which is based at Laage in northern Germany.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/6027588.cms
 
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neo29

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If EF doesnt have A2G capabilities then surely the IAF will reject it coz they looking for multirole fighter. The trials will surely scrutinize all these factors. So rest assure if EF wins it will have A2G capabilities.
 

vikramrana_1812

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Eurofighter Typhoon

The Eurofighter Typhoon is a twin-engine canard-delta wing multirole aircraft designed and built by a consortium of three companies: Alenia Aeronautica, BAE Systems, and EADS working through a holding company Eurofighter GmbH, which was formed in 1986. The project is managed by the NATO Eurofighter and Tornado Management Agency, which acts as the prime customer.[5]

The series production of the Eurofighter Typhoon is underway, and the aircraft is being procured under three separate contracts (named "tranches"), each for aircraft with generally improved capabilities. The aircraft has entered service with the British Royal Air Force, the German Luftwaffe, the Italian Air Force, the Spanish Air Force and the Austrian Air Force. Saudi Arabia has signed a contract worth £4.43 billion (approx. €6.4 billion c. 2007, $9.5 billion) for 72 aircraft

Development
The UK had identified a requirement for a new fighter as early as 1971. A specification, AST 403, issued by the Air Staff in 1972, resulted in a conventional "tailed" design known as P.96, which was presented in the late 1970s. While the design would have met the Air Staff's requirements, the UK air industry had reservations as it appeared to be very similar to the McDonnell Douglas F/A-18 Hornet, which was then well advanced in its development. The design had little potential for future growth, and when it entered production it would secure few exports in a market in which the Hornet would be well established.[7] Simultaneously, by 1979 the West German requirement for a new fighter had led to the development of the TKF-90 concept.[8][9] This was a cranked delta wing design with forward canard controls and artificial stability. Although the British Aerospace designers rejected some of its advanced features such as vectoring engine nozzles and vented trailing-edge controls, they agreed with the overall configuration.

In 1979 British Aerospace and Messerschmitt-Bölkow-Blohm presented a formal proposal to their respective governments for the ECF, the European Collaborative Fighter[10] or European Combat Fighter.[9] In October 1979 Dassault joined the ECF team for a tri-national study, which became known as the European Combat Aircraft.[10] It was at this stage of development that the Eurofighter name was first attached to the aircraft.[11] The development of different national prototypes continued. France produced the ACX. The UK produced two designs; the P.106[12] was a single-engined "lightweight" fighter, superficially resembling the JAS 39 Gripen, the P.110 was a twin-engined fighter. The P.106 concept was rejected by the RAF, on the grounds that it had "half the effectiveness of the two-engined aircraft at two thirds of the cost".[7] West Germany continued to refine the TFK-90 concept.[9] The ECA project collapsed in 1981 for several reasons including differing requirements, Dassault's insistence on "design leadership" and the British preference for a new version of the RB199 to power the aircraft versus the French preference for the new SNECMA M88.[11]

As a result the Panavia partners (BAe, MBB and Aeritalia) launched the Agile Combat Aircraft (ACA) programme in April 1982.[13] The ACA was very similar to the BAe P.110, having a cranked delta wing, canards and a twin tail. One major external difference was the replacement of the side mounted engine intakes with a chin intake. The ACA was to be powered by a modified version of the RB199. The German and Italian governments withdrew funding, however the UK Ministry of Defence agreed to fund 50% of the cost with the remaining 50% to be provided by industry. MBB and Aeritalia signed up with the aim of producing two aircraft, one at Warton and one by MBB. In May 1983 BAe announced a contract with the MoD for the development and production of an ACA demonstrator, the Experimental Aircraft Programme.[13][14]

In 1983 the UK, France, Germany, Italy and Spain launched the Future European Fighter Aircraft (FEFA) programme. The aircraft was to have Short Take Off and Landing (STOL) and Beyond Visual Range (BVR) capabilities. In 1984 France reiterated its requirement for a carrier-capable version and demanded a leading role. The UK, West Germany and Italy opted out and established a new EFA programme.[9]

In Turin on 2 August 1985 Italy, West Germany and the UK agreed to go ahead with the Eurofighter. The announcement of this agreement confirmed that France, along with Spain, had chosen not to proceed as a member of the project.[15] Despite pressure from France, Spain rejoined the Eurofighter project in early September 1985.[16] France officially withdrew from the project to pursue its own ACX project, which was to become the Dassault Rafale.


Close up view of an RAF Typhoon F2, showing the deflected canard control surface immediately below the pilotBy 1986, the cost of the program had reached £180 million.[17] When the EAP program had started, the cost was supposed to be equally shared by both government and industry, but the West German and Italian government wavered on the agreement and the three main industrial partners had to provide £100 million to keep the program from ending. In April 1986 the BAe EAP was rolled out at BAe Warton, by this time also partially funded by MBB, BAe and Aeritalia.[17] The EAP first flew on 6 August 1986.[18] The Eurofighter bears a strong resemblance to the EAP. Design work continued over the next five years using data from the EAP. Initial requirements were: UK: 250 aircraft, Germany: 250, Italy: 165 and Spain: 100. The share of the production work was divided among the countries in proportion to their projected procurement - British Aerospace (33%), DASA (33%), Aeritalia (21%), and Construcciones Aeronáuticas SA (CASA) (13%).

The Munich based Eurofighter Jagdflugzeug GmbH was established in 1986 to manage development of the project[19] and EuroJet Turbo GmbH, the alliance of Rolls-Royce, MTU Aero Engines, FiatAvio (now Avio) and ITP for development of the EJ200. The aircraft was known as Eurofighter EFA from the late 1980s until it was renamed EF 2000 in 1992.[20]

By 1990, the selection of the aircraft's radar had become a major stumbling block. The UK, Italy and Spain supported the Ferranti Defence Systems-led ECR-90, while Germany preferred the APG-65 based MSD2000 (a collaboration between Hughes (of the USA), AEG and GEC-Marconi). An agreement was reached after UK Defence Secretary Tom King assured his West German counterpart Gerhard Stoltenberg that the British government would underwrite the project and allow GEC to acquire Ferranti Defence Systems from its troubled parent. GEC thus withdrew its support for the MSD2000

Testing
The maiden flight of the Eurofighter prototype took place on 27 March 1994.[1] Dasa chief test pilot Peter Weger took the prototype on a test flight around Bavaria. The 1990s saw significant arguments over work share, the specification of the aircraft and even participation in the project.

On 9 December 2004, Eurofighter Typhoon IPA4 began three months of Cold Environmental Trials (CET) at the Vidsel Air Base in Sweden, the purpose of which was to verify the operational behaviour of the aircraft and its systems in temperatures between -25 and -31°C.[22]

In May 2007, Eurofighter Development Aircraft 5 made the first flight with the CAESAR demonstrator system,[23] a development of the Euroradar CAPTOR incorporating Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) technology.

The maiden flight of Instrumented Production Aircraft 7 (IPA7), the first fully equipped Tranche 2 aircraft, took place from EADS' Manching airfield on 16 January 2008.[24]

The production version of the CAPTOR-E radar was being proposed as part of Tranche 3 of the Typhoon from 2012. Tranche 2 aircraft use the non AESA, mechanically scanned Captor-M which incorporates weight and space provisions for possible upgrade to CAESAR (AESA) standard in the future.[25] The Italian Air Force doubted that the AESA radar would be ready in time for Tranche 3 production.[26] In July 2010, Eurofighter announced that the AESA radar would enter service in 2015

Orders
The first production contract was signed on 30 January 1998 between Eurofighter GmbH, Eurojet and NETMA.[28] The procurement totals were as follows: UK 232, Germany 180, Italy 121, and Spain 87. Production was again allotted according to procurement: British Aerospace (37%), DASA (29%), Aeritalia (19.5%), and CASA (14%).

On 2 September 1998, a naming ceremony was held at Farnborough, England. This saw the Typhoon name formally adopted, however initially for export aircraft only. This was reportedly resisted by Germany; perhaps because the Hawker Typhoon was a fighter-bomber aircraft which served with the RAF during the Second World War against German targets. [29] The name "Spitfire II" (for the famous British WWII fighter, the Supermarine Spitfire) had also been considered and rejected for the same reason early in the development program. In September 1998 contracts were signed for production of 148 Tranche 1 aircraft and procurement of long lead-time items for Tranche 2 aircraft.[30] In March 2008 the final aircraft out of Tranche 1 was delivered to the German Luftwaffe, with all successive deliveries being at the Tranche 2 standard.[31] On 21 October 2008, the first two of 91 Tranche 2 aircraft, ordered four years before, were delivered to RAF Coningsby.[32]

In October 2008, the Eurofighter nations were considering splitting the 236-fighter Tranche 3 into two parts.[33] In June 2009, RAF Air Chief Marshal Sir Glenn Torpy suggested that the RAF fleet might only be 123 jets, instead of the 232 previously planned.[34] In spite of this reduction in the number of required aircraft, on May 14, 2009, British Prime Minister Brown confirmed that the UK would move ahead with the third batch purchase. A contract for the first part, Tranche 3A, was signed at the end of July 2009 for 112 aircraft split across the four partner nations, including 40 aircraft for the UK, 31 for Germany, 21 for Italy and 20 for Spain.[35][36] These 40 aircraft were said to have fully covered the UK's obligations in the project by Air Cdre Chris Bushell, due to cost overruns in the project

Costs
In 1988 the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Armed Forces told the UK House of Commons that the European Fighter Aircraft would "be a major project, costing the United Kingdom about £7 billion".[38] It was soon apparent that a more realistic estimate was £13 billion,[39] made up of £3.3 billion development costs[40] plus £30 million per aircraft.[41] By 1997 the estimated cost was £17 billion; by 2003, £20 billion, and the in-service date (2003; defined as the date of delivery of the first aircraft to the RAF) was 54 months late.[42][43] Since 2003 the Ministry of Defence have refused to release updated cost estimates on the grounds of 'commercial sensitivity'.

Upgrades
In 2002, the MBDA Meteor was selected as the long range air-to-air missile armament of Eurofighter Typhoon.[86][87] Pending Meteor availability, Typhoon will be equipped with the Raytheon AMRAAM. The current in-service date for Meteor is predicted to be August 2012.[87]

In 2009, Eurofighter operators and manufacturers are considering upgrading the current fleet with the possibility of adding the MBDA Meteor missile and an Active Electronically Scanned Array radar.[48]

Eurojet is attempting to find funding to test a thrust vectoring nozzle (TVN) on a flight demonstrator.[88]

The RAF is working on fitting conformal fuel tanks (CFT) to free up limited underwing space for weapons

Variants
The Eurofighter Typhoon is in service with five nations: United Kingdom, Germany, Italy, Spain and Austria. BAE Systems describes the Eurofighter as the world's most advanced multi-role aircraft. The aircraft has also been ordered by Saudi Arabia, with the first aircraft already delivered. The aircraft has so far been provided in a basic form and most of the major systems including the CAPTOR radar and the Defence Aids Sub-System (DASS) are expected to be improved and updated over time. However BAE states that even these early aircraft will be much more capable than the Tornado F3 and that the development of the Typhoon will exceed the learning curve of pilots

[edit] Tranche 1
The Tranche 1 aircraft were produced from 2003 onwards and featured the Typhoon's initial capabilities.

Block 1
Initial Operational Capability, Basic Air Defence Capability
Block 2
Air-to-air capabilities
Block 5
Air-to-air and air-to-ground capabilities, Final Operational Capability (FOC) standard. All Tranche 1 aircraft are being upgraded to Block 5 capability through the R2 retrofit programme.[6]
[edit] Tranche 2
The Tranche 2 aircraft are currently in production

Block 8
New hardware standard with new mission computer
Block 10
EOC 1, improved DASS, IFF Mode 5, Rangeless ACMI
Air/Air: AIM-120C-5 AMRAAM, IRIS-T digital
Air/Ground: GBU-24, GPS-guided weapons, ALARM, Paveway III & IV, Rafael LITENING III
Block 15
EOC 2,
Air/Air: METEOR,
Air/Ground: TAURUS, Storm Shadow, Brimstone
Block 20
EOC 3
[edit] AMI aircraft
As of July 2006 the Italian Air Force (Aeronautica Militare Italiana) had one EF-2000 wing, 4° Stormo (41st Wing), which received its first aircraft on 19 February 2004.[4] The 36° Stormo has recevied its first Typhoon on 1 October 2007.

EdA aircraft
As of December 2006 the Spanish Air Force (Ejército del Aire) has one Squadron of aircraft. The first aircraft was delivered to Wing 11 in October 2003 at Moron airbase, Spain.[7] In Spanish service, the aircraft is designated the C.16 Typhoon[8].

Luftwaffe aircraft
As of October 2006 Germany had two active EF-2000 fighter wings, Jagdgeschwader 73 and Jagdgeschwader 74. JG 73 began converting to the Eurofighter in April 2004.[9] JG 74 received its first aircraft on 25 June 2006.[10]

RAF Aircraft
Typhoon T1
The Typhoon will replace the RAF's Tornado F3 (fighter) and Jaguar (ground attack) forces. If the total purchase reaches the planned 232 aircraft the Typhoon will equip seven front-line squadrons as well as the Operational Conversion Unit (OCU) and the Operational Evaluation Unit (OEU). These units will operate 137 Typhoons with the remaining 95 kept in reserve as attrition replacements and to share flight hours across the fleet.

Early RAF Typhoons were based at BAE Systems Warton, where the aircraft was assembled. This arrangement, dubbed "Case White" was intended to provide a smooth entry into service, with the close proximity of BAE staff allowing easy solutions to any technical issues which arise. The first squadrons, No. 17 OEU and No. 29 OCU Sqns, moved to RAF Coningsby in 2005 to begin establishing an initial operational capability (IOC).

The first Typhoon T1 is one of the Instrumented Production Aircraft (IPA1) and remains part of the BAE fleet. The aircraft's maiden flight was on April 15 2002. The official in service date for the first RAF Typhoon T1, serial ZJ803, was June 30 2003. Formal delivery occurred on December 18 at which point 17 Sqn began a full flying programme.

On June 27 2004 two RAF T1s left Warton bound for Singapore. This is the longest deployment of the Typhoon and the first outside Europe. While the Eurofighter development fleet was exhaustively tested for operations in extreme climates this provided operational experience of such deployments.

Typhoon T1A
The Typhoon T1A is a Tranche 1, Batch 2 two-seat trainer. There would not normally be a different designation for a different aircraft batch, however the Batch 2 aircraft have a fuel system modification to fix a fuel gauge problem identified in the development aircraft fleet.

Typhoon F2
The F2 is the single seat fighter variant. The first F2 is IPA5 and also remains with BAE, its first flight was June 6 2002.

The first operational squadron, No. 3, formed at RAF Cottesmore on March 31, 2006 and moved to its new base RAF Coningsby the following day.No. 11 squadron, the second operational squadron received its first aircraft (ZJ931) on October 9, 2006.

The UK agreed to approve production of "Tranche 2" in December 2004, this tranche will see the RAF receive a further 89 aircraft, bringing its Typhoon inventory to 144. This followed protracted negotiations regarding the early introduction of ground attack capabilities of the aircraft and hence its swing-role capability. While this was always planned it was intended to come at a much later date.

In 2001, it was announced that the Royal Air Force (RAF) would not use the aircraft's internal 27 mm Mauser cannon. This was due to a desire to save money by removing gun support costs, ammunition stocks, training costs, etc. The gun was also deemed unnecessary since the missile armament was believed to be adequate in the Typhoon's fighter role. However, because removal of the cannon would affect the aircraft's flight characteristics, requiring modification of the aircraft's flight software the RAF decided that all of its Typhoons would be fitted with the cannon but that it would not be used or supported. The service argued that this would save money by reducing the requirement for ground equipment, removing training costs and avoiding the fatigue effects of firing the cannon. The RAF maintained the option to activate the cannons at very short notice were operational requirements to change. However in a third change of policy, the Daily Telegraph reported on 3 October 2006 that the RAF will fully utilise the cannon

Typhoon T3
Two-seat Block 5 or later aircraft (built or upgraded from T1) are known as Typhoon T3s.

Typhoon FGR4
Single-seat Block 5 or later aircraft (built or upgraded from F2) are known as Typhoon FGR4s. The new mark number represents the increased capabilities of the Block 5 aircraft (fighter/ground attack/reconnaissance). The FGR4 has from June 2008 achieved the required standard for multi-role operations
 
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vikramrana_1812

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Capabilities
The Eurofighter Typhoon is the world's most advanced combat aircraft with extensive multi-role capabilities.

Able to counter effectively all current and evolving threats, the Typhoon is the only fighter available on the market able to offer such wide-ranging operational capabilities whilst at the same time delivering unparalleled fleet effectiveness.



"What people don't realise about Typhoon is how good it is at high altitude. Between 40,000 and 55,000 feet, nothing can touch it except an F-22 - that's what makes it so strong in air defence".

Air Chief Marshal Sir Glenn Torpy, Chief of Air Staff, Royal Air Force, 12 February 2009 at Aero India, Bangalore
 

luckyy

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take a wild guess........

the two aircrafts that didn't shotlisted in the evaluation report...

MIG-35 & F-18SH
 

neo29

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take a wild guess........

the two aircrafts that didn't shotlisted in the evaluation report...

MIG-35 & F-18SH
SH-18 for sure ... i doubt if Mig-35. The establishment may not select Mig35 but will buy it separately 50 - 60 fighters.
 

civfanatic

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Best case scenario IMO: Rafale or EF-2000 wins the deal and IAF orders 2-3 squadrons of MiG-35 separately.
 

Terminator

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Best bet would be eurofighter to me.

Mig not competenant enough for us.cant get us that much leverage in bipolar world.
f series -embargo,supply to enemy,end user issue and tot
rafale-not proven,french doesnt give stategic leverage for us.
 

prateikf

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the MIG series of aircraft are not designed and cannot perform at high altitudes as was sadly proved during Kargil when the entire fleet of IAF MIG's proved useless and only the Mirage-2000 proved to be a success. hence it's no surprise that the MIG-35 and the f-18 failed to re start their engines at leh. these 2 aircraft should be disqualified as buying them would prove to be a big liability as they wont be ineffective at high altitudes.
 

Agantrope

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the MIG series of aircraft are not designed and cannot perform at high altitudes as was sadly proved during Kargil when the entire fleet of IAF MIG's proved useless and only the Mirage-2000 proved to be a success. hence it's no surprise that the MIG-35 and the f-18 failed to re start their engines at leh. these 2 aircraft should be disqualified as buying them would prove to be a big liability as they wont be ineffective at high altitudes.
When basically flying over the himalayas, the normal winged aircraft will not be reliable as the Delta winged, because the in the low pressure area delta wing will have a perfect airmotion through its air inlets and the chances of engine failures will be minimal. This the reason why the Mirages performed well and MiGs got screwed. IMO opinion besides the geo-political advantages the sheer numbers will not allow the induct the normal birds here. So only Rafale and EF2000 are things whihc have the stuffs, EF2000 will offer more thing than what we think.
 

neo29

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i have been a staunch supporter of EF. But Rafale is also good. The only reason Rafale may not win is becoz of its engine. Though there have been reports that people want kaveri engine project to tie up with Scenma so that it can be used in LCA mk2 and AMCA. But the IAF opposes it stating that more research on kaveri engine will delay the LCA project. Hence IAF not interested in Kaveri engine and wants either EJ200 or Ge-414

Even the f-16 may not be selected since it has GE f110 engine. It is highly likely that the engine of LCA and mmrca will be same. SH-18, Gripen and EF are the likely candidates in that case. US govt has declined consultancy for LCA and even not approved the sale of GE 414. US is waiting for mmrca results. They will approve sale of ge414 only after either of the US fighters will be chosen. That too attached with strings and non ToT.

EF already providing consultancy for LCA, offers AESA codes and ToT. Perks offered by EF is lucrative enough to convince the establishment.

Just in case EF is not chosen, Rafale is the only worthy contender.

Mig35 is a powerful plane but am concerned with russian spares supply and maintenance costs. The only reason why India wants Mig-35 is becoz its access to AESA and it can use novator and brahmos missles on russian planes only. Besides to keep Russia happy. Hence a deal outside is mmrca is imminent.
 
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