Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

[farhan_9909]

Panic Alert


Infamous Assassinations: Zia ul Haq (Documentary) - YouTube

Damn dazzler you indeed are a party buster.

the documentary not only show the tanks within the pakistani terrain but also show the live firing and confirms the missing of target..

with this video.the claim of M1 being not tested in Pakistan or didnt failed should be an eye opener for the blind abram lover.
@Keshav Murali

watch this video.

 

[Damian]

I just answered your negation of M1 Abrams demonstration in Pakistan back in 1988. Nowhere did i question your education or eligibility in your field.

Ever wonder why i tag you along with other knowledgable members in several of my posts? It is because i value your contribution regarding armour and military technology. This includes several other members on this forum. I have no hesitation is admitting that i have learned a few things while on this forum.

And still you goes whit this hilarious claim that M1 failed tests. Sources proofs otherwise.

the documentary not only show the tanks within the pakistani terrain but also show the live firing and confirms the missing of target..

with this video.the claim of M1 being not tested in Pakistan or didnt failed should be an eye opener for the blind abram lover.

Where do you see M1 missing targets hmmm? No such thing is shown on this video. I am also certain you confused an unidentified gun firing at something, with M1's gun. To your information, gun on video is neither M68A1 neither M256.

Also, how do you know that footage of a tank was made in Pakistan?

You think that in other parts of world, even USA, they are no similiar places?

I know you have problems with understanding what you see, which is typical for fanboys.

And yeah, I would definetely preffer to sit inside M1 than in a human crematory like Al Khalid.

 

[farhan_9909]

Where do you see M1 missing targets hmmm? No such thing is shown on this video. I am also certain you confused an identified gun firing at something, with M1's gun.

I know you have problems with understanding what you see, which is typical for fanboys.

And yeah, I would definetely preffer to sit inside M1 than in a human crematory like Al Khalid.

well this is a documentary about assination.they are showing the small clip because of this exercise association with the death of zia.

he was not some xyz general but a man behind the USSR collapse and modern day taliban.so the country could had been in turmoil after the exercise and his death.

there must be more videos of the test.but only with the authorities.

whether it missed the target or not.this should not be the concern.but opting from m1 would have created alot of problem for pakistan.and the tank industry might had been capable of even rebuilding of tanks.

Yes i agree Al khalid is not as good as m1.but al khalid has given pakistan a tank industry.i dont know why you cant get this.
a slight inferior product is acceptable if made in home.

though there is nothing like best tanks only Good.and all the 3rd generation mbt's has the capability to go head on head with any other mbt including m1 or leopards or merkava 4

 

[Dazzler]

pics...

crew was American clearly..

nice view of the turret..

at Bahawalpur firing range...

the gun....

 

[Dazzler]

continued.......


round fired

clearly missed target, notice the smoke...

 

[methos]

@Dazzler

Do you have any picture showing that the tank is definetly in Pakistan? The environment looks like a generic military proving ground and could also be located in America or Europe.

 

[Dazzler]

here are dignitaries including the guard of honour for the then president Zia...

 

[Damian]

pics...

crew was American clearly..

nice view of the turret..

at Bahawalpur firing range...

the gun....

As you can see, M1 on video is actually M1A1, where the footage of the tank was made, is not known. What is more important, the gun that is shown, is not main armament of M1A1 which use M256 gun, the gun on video is some sort of unidentified gun.

well this is a documentary about assination.they are showing the small clip because of this exercise association with the death of zia.

he was not some xyz general but a man behind the USSR collapse and modern day taliban.so the country could had been in turmoil after the exercise and his death.

there must be more videos of the test.but only with the authorities.

I do not care who he was, and who he is in your eyes or eyes of Pakistanis, it is irrelevant for discussion.

whether it missed the target or not.this should not be the concern.but opting from m1 would have created alot of problem for pakistan.and the tank industry might had been capable of even rebuilding of tanks.

And again, this is not subject of discussion.

Yes i agree Al khalid is not as good as m1.but al khalid has given pakistan a tank industry.i dont know why you cant get this.
a slight inferior product is acceptable if made in home.

You might accept inferior product, we do not.

And againt, this is irrelevant for discussion subject.

though there is nothing like best tanks only Good.and all the 3rd generation mbt's has the capability to go head on head with any other mbt including m1 or leopards or merkava 4

And did I ever made a doubt that any tank can fight with other tank, not matter how advanced it is?

 

[farhan_9909]

and this is bahawalpur terrain

a simple google search of bahawalpur terrain.also watch the video where the tank is moving and than compare this with the bahawalpure terrain.

https://www.google.com.pk/search?hl...mghp&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=bahawalpur+terrain&btnG=

 

[Damian]

and this is bahawalpur terrain

a simple google search of bahawalpur terrain.also watch the video where the tank is moving and than compare this with the bahawalpure terrain.

https://www.google.com.pk/search?hl...mghp&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=bahawalpur+terrain&btnG=

And do you really believe that similiar terrain can't be found anywhere else, for example Texas?

 

[Dazzler]

As you can see, M1 on video is actually M1A1, where the footage of the tank was made, is not known. What is more important, the gun that is shown, is not main armament of M1A1 which use M256 gun, the gun on video is some sort of unidentified gun.

M256 was not a part of this deal as far as i know, it was some unknown gun, most probably a downgraded export version of the M256, barrell also looks a little strange.

 

[Dazzler]

And do you really believe that similiar terrain can't be found anywhere else, for example Texas?

Offcourse there are similar terrains in most countries but Bahawalpur is the usual destination for such trials, from M1 to Al Khalid, all were tested there..


Here is AK-1 first batch in Bahawalpur..

 

[Damian]

M256 was not a part of this deal as far as i know, it was some unknown gun, most probably a downgraded export version of the M256, barrell also looks a little strange.

Do you know that there is no other gun? Because no other gun than M256 and M68A1 are quallified to be used in M1 series? An none of this two guns are shown in this video to be fired at targets. Even the newest gun XM360E1 as well as other experimental the XM291 are not quallified to be used in series manufactured tanks. X means experimental, only for tests.
And video clearly shows M1A1 armed with M256 gun, which furthermore proves, that video does not contains footage from actuall tests.

And no, there is no such thing as downgraded M256 gun, neither there is such thing as downgraded M68A1 gun, which is nothing more than improved and americanized version of the british L7.

Why you just don't accept that this stupid TV documentary is made up and do not shows actuall tests?

Besides this, purchase at least one, single good book about M1, for example one of Richard Hunnicutt books. Your knowledge about this tank, and about tanks overall is one, huge 0.

Offcourse there are similar terrains in most countries but Bahawalpur is the usual destination for such trials, from M1 to Al Khalid, all were tested there..


Here is AK-1 first batch in Bahawalpur..

Read again what I wrote, and then read again, and if you will not understand, read another 100 times, maybe some day, this simple information, will find a way to your brain.

 

[Dazzler]

Do you know that there is no other gun? Because no other gun than M256 and M68A1 are quallified to be used in M1 series? An none of this two guns are shown in this video to be fired at targets. Even the newest gun XM360E1 as well as other experimental the XM291 are not quallified to be used in series manufactured tanks. X means experimental, only for tests.
And video clearly shows M1A1 armed with M256 gun, which furthermore proves, that video does not contains footage from actuall tests.

And no, there is no such thing as downgraded M256 gun, neither there is such thing as downgraded M68A1 gun, which is nothing more than improved and americanized version of the british L7.

Why you just don't accept that this stupid TV documentary is made up and do not shows actuall tests?

Besides this, purchase at least one, single good book about M1, for example one of Richard Hunnicutt books. Your knowledge about this tank, and about tanks overall is one, huge 0.



Read again what I wrote, and then read again, and if you will not understand, read another 100 times, maybe some day, this simple information, will find a way to your brain.

Alright hold on there,

I dont have to convince you or anyone on anything regarding the whole M1 saga because i know and have seen firsthand accounts with my eyes. Whether it hurts you or not, is not my concern. I have repeatedly shown you respect but everything has a limit and this time, in your case atleast, the limit is well ecxeeded.

If you have evidence to prove M1 never landed in Pakistan and the whole story is fabricated, bring in forward, otherwise leave it the way it is.

 

[Damian]

I dont have to convince you or anyone on anything regarding the whole M1 saga because i know and have seen firsthand accounts with my eyes. Whether it hurts you or not, is not my concern. I have repeatedly shown you respect but everything has a limit and this time, in your case atleast, the limit is well ecxeeded.

No, you are spreading a idiotic story which made up. M1 might have been tested, but test results are not known, what is known is a made up story spread by you and based on a novel like book, a conspiracy theory book and idiotic TV show.

And no, you did not seen firshand accounts. You probably don't know what is firsthand account.

If you have evidence to prove M1 never landed in Pakistan and the whole story is fabricated, bring in forward, otherwise leave it the way it is.

My main concern is a story you spread about performance.

But then again, excellent performance in real battle conditions of whole tank brigades says more about vehicle performance than a test of single vehicle. And Im ok with that. However I am not ok with a guy exciting about a made up story by some people that about tanks have absolutely no knowledge.

 

[Dazzler]

No, you are spreading a idiotic story which made up. M1 might have been tested, but test results are not known, what is known is a made up story spread by you and based on a novel like book, a conspiracy theory book and idiotic TV show.

And no, you did not seen firshand accounts. You probably don't know what is firsthand account.



My main concern is a story you spread about performance.

But then again, excellent performance in real battle conditions of whole tank brigades says more about vehicle performance than a test of single vehicle. And Im ok with that. However I am not ok with a guy exciting about a made up story by some people that about tanks have absolutely no knowledge.

just prove me the demonstration never happened in Pakistan and i will accept your side of story. I dont have time to satisfy your ego regarding your Abram's thunderous performance against inferior adversaries.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

There is no official conformation that such trails ever occurred nor the vid taken is an official representation..

Also avoid posting forum links to back claims ..

---------

Carry on ..

 

[Damian]

just prove me the demonstration never happened in Pakistan and i will accept your side of story. I dont have time to satisfy your ego regarding your Abram's thunderous performance against inferior adversaries.

No, you started to make hideous claims, I by use of simple logic, showed that these claims are nowhere truth.

The only two reliable sources which you provided, do not tell anything about performance and fail of this specific tank design.

Steven Zaloga writes, that M1 was not sold because of US-Pakistani disagreement on nuclear weapons.

And this is very logical claim, first because indeed USA was concerned, second because Pakistanis instead of cooperation choosen confrontation, third because Pakistan can't be a reliable ally. Pakistan not only do not wish to cooperate for security improvement, but is also willing to sold technology to PRC. Which means that selling a vehicle containing a lot of classified technology to such unreliable partner is a no-go.

Note also that Steven Zaloga is respected, known author of history books, maybe not the best author, but he definetely have knowledge about armored fighting vehicles and have access to proper sources.

Second source which seems to be abiography of Indra Ghandi, says that Pakistani officers were delighted and impressed with vehicle performance.

What you puts against two reliable sources are:

1) A book that is more a poetic novel about Pakistani general, written by a guy who don't have slightest idea about armored fighting vehicles.
2) A book about conspiracy theories, which is even more stupid.
3) A TV show which can't be realiable and seems to be based on claims included to pseudo sources like the above mentioned books.

What is also important, TV show with which you was so excited, shows a driving tank in several fragments, and then some unidentified gun shooting, and then again some targets and a dust cloud. You then make a further conclusion that this video is a reliable source, which is not.

Tough I completely understand that Pakistanis, as people very susceptible on domestic propaganda, which means also you, are very eager to believe in such weak sources that are supporting their false view about incredible power of their state and how incredibly powerfull they are as a people.

However for me as educated person, this is nothing more than BS.

 

[Dazzler]

Tough I completely understand that Pakistanis, as people very susceptible on domestic propaganda, which means also you, are very eager to believe in such weak sources that are supporting their false view about incredible power of their state and how incredibly powerfull they are as a people.

This sums up the effort since you eventually came to the nationality part without even knowing what background i am from. I saw it coming as you could not prove me wrong on any account concerning the M1 Abrams demonstration in Pakistan, you could not come up with a single source that could explain it never happened, no newspiece, no book, no article, let alone a video. Even Zaloga agreed with me that it happened though he gave a different reason for the deal not going through which i have no reservations for since there were concerns on this by US. GDLS was keen on the deal though.

This shows your credibility as an analyst. You may know a lot regarding military tactics and armour technology and other stuff but you could not resist without bringing my nationality in the argument.

So much for a so called analyst.

 

[Damian]

This sums up the effort since you eventually came to the nationality part without even knowing what background i am from. I saw it coming as you could not prove me wrong on any account concerning the M1 Abrams demonstration in Pakistan, you could not come up with a single source that could explain it never happened, no newspiece, no book, no article, let alone a video.

Well I agreed that test might eventually been performed, what I do not agree is reason to cancell the deal.

Even Zaloga agreed with me that it happened though he gave a different reason for the deal not going through which i have no reservations for since there were concerns on this by US. GDLS was keen on the deal though.

And I agree with Zaloga, mainly because he gives a logical explanation.

As for GDLS, of course that GDLS was keen on it because it means work and it means money. However GDLS is only contractor that operates manufacturing center, factory and rights to a tank belongs to US goverment and without permission of US goverment GDLS can't sell anything anywhere.

This shows your credibility as an analyst. You may know a lot regarding military tactics and armour technology and other stuff but you could not resist without bringing my nationality in the argument.

You know what the best thing is, I am not analyst! Yes! This might be a shock for you?

As for nationality, well you know, it is hard to ignore a fact how you people react, how you people think (or rather not think) etc. etc. etc.

So much for a so called analyst.

Yes indeed! And what is funny for me, is that people tend to call me this way, even if I, never called myself an analyst.

I think I should make a huge banner with "I AM NOT AN ANALYST!!!" on it.