Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

[mikhail]

No, not me, I am much much younger and much much slimer.

Why did you think this is me or that I was there?

sir can you tell me what is the differnce between a T-90C MBT and our T-90M Bhishma MBT?i have found a number of articles in the internet which mention about T-90C tank of Russia

The new version of the T-90C tank is among the more 150 models of Russian military hardware on display at the 7th DEFEXPO defense exhibition in New Delhi.

The T-90C brand accounts for a quarter of India's tank park. DEFEXPO-2012 showcases a wide range of Russian anti-aircraft systems.

India and Russia are co-producing a number of joint weapons, including the BrahMos supersonic anti-ship missile and the multipurpose Medium Transport Aircraft.

Russia unveils new version of T-90C tank at DEFEXPO: Voice of Russia

 

[cobra commando]

No, not me, I am much much younger and much much slimer.

Why did you think this is me or that I was there?

Right, gotcha.. naah i just thought you posted it and 'tanks' + 3 dudes so one i thought was you and the other two are dejawolf & stgn maybe

 

[Damian]

sir can you tell me what is the differnce between a T-90C MBT and our T-90M Bhishma MBT?i have found a number of articles in the internet which mention about T-90C tank of Russia

Russia unveils new version of T-90C tank at DEFEXPO: Voice of Russia

There is just error in nomenclature.

Russia do not use T-90S (or T-90C as it is written in russian because in russian C = S if it is translated to english) but T-90 and T-90A (and their command tank variants T-90K and T-90AK). And India do not use T-90M but T-90S Bhishma. So these are correct designation codes.

Also there are two variants of T-90S, early with cast turret and later with welded turret. India use both but majority is with newer welded turret.

As for difference between Russian Army T-90's and Indian Army T-90's is that Indian tanks do not have TSzU-1-7 Shtora-1 soft kill active protection system in it's full version, your tanks lack IR dazzlers, but this is not a complete disadvantage, because IR dazzlers on Russian tanks are placed such way, that they prevent installation of all ERA cassettes on turret front, creating larger weaker protected zone, while Indian tanks have better ERA cover.

Other differences are for example different composite armor, T-90's builded in India use Kanchan insted of original Russian solution.

Other than that there isn't much difference at all.

Right, gotcha.. naah i just thought you posted it and 'tanks' + 3 dudes so one i thought was you and the other two are dejawolf & stgn maybe

No, Dejawolf and STGN are also not there, photos are from different forum and made by different guys, but also tanks enthusiasts like us.

 

[Damian]

A short walkaround Chieftain, it seems that vehicle in this video is Chieftain Mk10 or Mk11, as it have also TOGS thermal sight on the left of the turret in armored box and turret have additional protection in form of "Stillbrew" addon armor.

 

[LaVictoireEstLaVie]

Here are the pics again:

Damian, i have a few pics of other tanks in various states of assembly. I might be able to get a few more Challenger pics.

 

[LaVictoireEstLaVie]

Ok i give up, i guess the pics dont want to be posted.

 

[Austin]

T-90MS at IDEX-2013 ( Pictures )

Gur Khan attacks!: Т-90МС на IDEX-2013 (фото)

 

[mikhail]

There is just error in nomenclature.

Russia do not use T-90S (or T-90C as it is written in russian because in russian C = S if it is translated to english) but T-90 and T-90A (and their command tank variants T-90K and T-90AK). And India do not use T-90M but T-90S Bhishma. So these are correct designation codes.

Also there are two variants of T-90S, early with cast turret and later with welded turret. India use both but majority is with newer welded turret.

As for difference between Russian Army T-90's and Indian Army T-90's is that Indian tanks do not have TSzU-1-7 Shtora-1 soft kill active protection system in it's full version, your tanks lack IR dazzlers, but this is not a complete disadvantage, because IR dazzlers on Russian tanks are placed such way, that they prevent installation of all ERA cassettes on turret front, creating larger weaker protected zone, while Indian tanks have better ERA cover.

Other differences are for example different composite armor, T-90's builded in India use Kanchan insted of original Russian solution.

Other than that there isn't much difference at all.



No, Dejawolf and STGN are also not there, photos are from different forum and made by different guys, but also tanks enthusiasts like us.

sir if i am not wrong then we actually use the LEDS-150 active protection system made by SAAB Avitronics,a S.African subsidiary of SAAB Defence Company instead of TSzU-1-7 Shtora-1 in T-90S Bhisma.now sir would you please tell me the advantages of LEDS-150 over TSzU-1-7 Shtora-1 as the former uses both hard kill and soft kill methods and the latter uses only soft kill method.i mean which one has got an advantage in reality of these two systems?

 

[Damian]

sir if i am not wrong then we actually use the LEDS-150 active protection system made by SAAB Avitronics,a S.African subsidiary of SAAB Defence Company instead of TSzU-1-7 Shtora-1 in T-90S Bhisma.now sir would you please tell me the advantages of LEDS-150 over TSzU-1-7 Shtora-1 as the former uses both hard kill and soft kill methods and the latter uses only soft kill method.i mean which one has got an advantage in reality of these two systems?

LEDS-150 is only proposed for Indian T-90S, but as far as I know, no tank in IA inventory have it installed yet.

As for advantages, of course if system use both soft and hard kill methods instead of one it is better. It is simple, not all ATGM's are vurnable to jamming of their guidance system, and RPG's do not have such at all, so they can't be intercepted by soft kill mechanism, then hard kill mechanism is nececary to shoot them down.

However there are still not much of such systems designed, that combine both mechanisms, I know that also Israeli Iron Fist and also American Quick Kill were planned to have soft and hard kill mechanisms, however I don't know much about Quick Kill in the most recent configuration, I only know that all problems with Quick Kill were solved and it is near induction phase after final tests. As for Iron Fist, I don't know how it will end.

 

[Shirman]

Hey Damian Hi, NO BUMAR at IDEX-2013 ....I was desperate 2 see the developments happening with Anders light tank........

 

[Damian]

Hey Damian Hi, NO BUMAR at IDEX-2013 ....I was desperate 2 see the developments happening with Anders light tank........

It was not there because WPB "Anders" was only technology demonstrator, it was to show what industry can do, but was not designed per any requirements, so WPB "Anders" is now closed project, and the actual real program started codenamed "Rydwan" (or "Charriot" in english). Program "Rydwan" is still in planning phase but in march complete requirements will be presented as far as I know. Of course experiences with WPB "Anders" will serve well in project "Rydwan".

"Rydwan" will be builded around two platforms, first will be light/medium weight for basic apmhibious IFV and lighter specialized vehicles, basic weight of such platform will be around 25 tons, second platform will be heavy weight mainly designed as a base for new MBT and as well will be basis for ARV, Engineering vehicle, probably also bridge layer and perhaps also heavy IFV, it's basic weight will be around 50 tons.

There is currently formed consortium that will be responsible for R&D and manufacturing, leaders will be goverment owned Bumar and private owned HSW + other smaller companies and also foreing cooperant (most probably German KMW).

It is planned to show fully developed prototype of new MBT more or less 5 years from now, so production would start around 2020 if everything will go fine.

Also it will not be 100% made from Polish developed components, IMHO Polish developed will be only basic vehicle structure and minor components while rest will be manufactured in Poland on licence foreing components to reduce costs, time and risks, this will also give us nececary knowledge, ToT etc.

It is also desired to have as much commonality between light/medium and heavy platforms as possible.

But as I said, final requirements will be ready in March this year, if we will be lucky, these will not be classified and I will be able to share them with users of this forum.

Also what is important to note, eventuall licence production of foreing components and transfer of technology as well as cooperation with foreing cooperant started allready for Leopard 2A4 tanks modernization to Leopard 2PL standard, as it is clear allready that KMW was choose as this foreing cooperant, and it is requirement of Polish Army to have as many componnts as possible to be manufactured in Poland on license.

So modernization of Leopard 2 tanks is not only about modernization, but also have deeper sense in a long term planning. It is also desired by our MoD to aquire more Leopard 2's and modernize them to Leopard 2PL standard so we will be able to finally withdraw from service T-72 tanks, leaving only Leopard 2PL's (128 or eventually approx 200-240 if more will be purchased) and PT-91's (approx 230), and later withdraw from service PT-91's by replacing them with new MBT, and then also slowly replace Leopard 2's with new MBT in more distant future.

So we will see, I hope that plans will be succesfull, such modernization is really needed, it is time to replace all soviet made weapon systems with something more modern.

 

[militarysta]

I have hope that this is more or less correct Hull in progres...

 

[LaVictoireEstLaVie]

I have hope that this is more or less correct Hull in progres...

Nice one Militarysta. Finally someone did make a turret armor profile for the XXI Leclerc. Did you incorporate the added thickness of about 5 cm to front turret faces?

 

[darklabor]

Militarysta, if you want to gain in credibility, you should avoid using the "AMX-56" name. It's been invented by trolls or stupid ass guys...
It's original name is "AMX Leclerc" when all arsenals where seperated. When GIAT was created, the name became simply "char Leclerc" (Leclerc MBT). With Nexter, it's now "Système Leclerc" (Leclerc system). Nexter entered in the era where everything is a system, you no longer have tanks, APC, etc.

For the armor volumes, there are two problems:
-You don't folow the right lines.
-The blueprints are not updated for S2 and SXXI. That means you only got LOS of S1 armor modules (except the VTI's block).

Touché! :thumb: Actually the book is a good indicator on how it evolved, how it could evolved if we only had conventionnal weapons. If you are looking only for armor, you'll be disapointed. The blueprints are misleading. (who said the cake is a lie?)

 

[LaVictoireEstLaVie]

Some more interesting pictures:

Merkava 3 construction:

Namer APC hull:

Merkava (3?) Lower Glacis:

Merkava 4 turret construction:

Merkava 3 turret armor modules:

Merkava 3 rpg damage:

Merkava 3 rpg damage:

Merkava 3 rpg damage:

 

[militarysta]

Militarysta, if you want to gain in credibility, you should avoid using the "AMX-56" name. It's been invented by trolls or stupid ass guys...
It's original name is "AMX Leclerc" when all arsenals where seperated. When GIAT was created, the name became simply "char Leclerc" (Leclerc MBT). With Nexter, it's now "Système Leclerc" (Leclerc system). Nexter entered in the era where everything is a system, you no longer have tanks, APC, etc.

For the armor volumes, there are two problems:
-You don't folow the right lines.
-The blueprints are not updated for S2 and SXXI. That means you only got LOS of S1 armor modules (except the VTI's block).

Ok, without mistake:


In fact I had tried to base on known nacked Leclerc turret photos. But indeed - making LOS is nightmare here...
Where do You see obvious mistakes?


Misty idea how it can look in hull case:

 

[darklabor]

With the additionnal LOS of SXXI's armor modules.

 

[darklabor]

Misty idea how it can look in hull case:

You count the mudguards as armor?

 

[militarysta]

With the additionnal LOS of SXXI's armor modules.

Ok, line on draw sucks indeed. What about older Leclerc variants?

 

[militarysta]

You count the mudguards as armor?

You said about this?

Ok, both draws shoud be remove and make again :-/