Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

[LaVictoireEstLaVie]

Some more RPG hits on Merkavas:

 

[militarysta]

OK, and how many mistakes are here:




Older draw, older version of the Leclerc.

 

[militarysta]

Some more RPG hits on Merkavas:

Those photos whit descripsion whas posted here more then yers ago by myself and Damian. And part of this "RPG damage" was done by Methis and Fagots, and TOW, so descripsion is totally wrong...

 

[LaVictoireEstLaVie]

Those photos whit descripsion whas posted here more then yers ago by myself and Damian.

I tried, oh well...

 

[darklabor]

OK, and how many mistakes are here:




Older draw, older version of the Leclerc.

Honnestly I wouldn't use that drawing.
It is anything but proportionned.

For S1, you just remove the little plate over the commander front module.

 

[militarysta]

OK, thanks, I tried use that what I have :-/ Whit Leclerc LOS they alway was a problem - good interior pictures wen to the internet late, and there is still no good draw avaible. And propably thats a reson why on many forum leclec is mark whit to thin LOS value.

 

[darklabor]

OK, thanks, I tried use that what I have :-/ Whit Leclerc LOS they alway was a problem - good interior pictures wen to the internet late, and there is still no good draw avaible. And propably thats a reson why on many forum leclec is mark whit to thin LOS value.

People always consider the Leclerc as a continuity with the other tanks built in France. Yet it's the first real heavy tank mass produced by french military industry.
The misty fog around that tank comes from the huge amount of d**kheads that spread out a s**tload of rumors about it.
In french army the bad reputation of the tank is spread out by all other arms. I've seen combat engineers saying the Leclerc could be taken out by AT-4 even in the front (wich was true if it was the AMX 30... :/ ), but once again, when they call it AMX-56, you know the kind of value you can give to their intel...

 

[militarysta]

People always consider the Leclerc as a continuity with the other tanks built in France. Yet it's the first real heavy tank mass produced by french military industry.
The misty fog around that tank comes from the huge amount of d**kheads that spread out a s**tload of rumors about it.
In french army the bad reputation of the tank is spread out by all other arms. I've seen combat engineers saying the Leclerc could be taken out by AT-4 even in the front (wich was true if it was the AMX 30... :/ ), but once again, when they call it AMX-56, you know the kind of value you can give to their intel...

It's true - but for tho other side - few yers ago swedish FMV reveal article about Swedish tank trials. And in those article Leclerc prototype ptotection was dscribed as 50% whorse then export M1A2 and 100% whorse then Leopard-2I (now Leopard-2A5). Of coure we don't know the deatils but those values are interesting...


Well - new misty idea about hull
IMHO in Leclerc hull and turret front have quite simmilar LOS thicknes - between 700 and 800mm:

 

[militarysta]

After few improvmend.

I have serious doubt about sucht values - turret in that case is slight asymetric.

 

[Damian]

@Kunal Biswas and others, this might interest you, there are informations about new Polish MBT. Ok so as soon as it will be possible, I will be perhaps capable to post there a screenshot or photo of our new MBT 3d model. But some informations (not confirmed tough) are avaiable, basic weight will be around 45-50 tons, 6 road wheels per side, it seems that vehicle will have unmanned turret armed with 120mm smoothbore gun (yeah, I am also surprised), it is claimed that unmanned turret might be a further evolution of turret presented on WPB Anders, engine seems to be at vehicle rear, still this need confirmation.

Oh and one more thing, our engineers claim that demonstrator or first prototype will be presented after 6 months counting from today, I am surprised, and I hope they will be capable to do this so quick.

 

[darklabor]

It's true - but for tho other side - few yers ago swedish FMV reveal article about Swedish tank trials. And in those article Leclerc prototype ptotection was dscribed as 50% whorse then export M1A2 and 100% whorse then Leopard-2I (now Leopard-2A5). Of coure we don't know the deatils but those values are interesting...

Do you have that paper? I would be curious to see this.
AFAIK, till Greece competition, armor values where not revealed to other countries...

Well - new misty idea about hull
IMHO in Leclerc hull and turret front have quite simmilar LOS thicknes - between 700 and 800mm:

Looks good for the depth. The height is a little bit shocking but I think it's due to the fact that the lower plates of the hull are not drawn on the blueprint.
The bevel is for the weld line?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Interesting Indeed, But recently our MOD and Army declared that they would like to keep producing T-90S/MS in India, That end the possibility of other tanks And seriously damage the ongoing effort of India`s own Arjun MBT program or even FMBT..

=====================================

Personally, I am very much interested, Anders program opened many ideas..

@Kunal Biswas and others, this might interest you, there are informations about new Polish MBT. Ok so as soon as it will be possible, I will be perhaps capable to post there a screenshot or photo of our new MBT 3d model. But some informations (not confirmed tough) are avaiable, basic weight will be around 45-50 tons, 6 road wheels per side, it seems that vehicle will have unmanned turret armed with 120mm smoothbore gun (yeah, I am also surprised), it is claimed that unmanned turret might be a further evolution of turret presented on WPB Anders, engine seems to be at vehicle rear, still this need confirmation.

Oh and one more thing, our engineers claim that demonstrator or first prototype will be presented after 6 months counting from today, I am surprised, and I hope they will be capable to do this so quick.

 

[Damian]

Interesting Indeed, But recently our MOD and Army declared that they would like to keep producing T-90S/MS in India, That end the possibility of other tanks And seriously damage the ongoing effort of India`s own Arjun MBT program or even FMBT..

=====================================

Personally, I am very much interested, Anders program opened many ideas..

I am searching through internet database of our national television archieves, perhaps not today but tomorrow there will be "Panorama" episode where 3d model was shown, also I have a contact with person that informed me about this and made a video through a cell phone, perhaps he will be able to make screenshots and send them to me.

 

[Damian]

@Kunal Biswas, this are photos made by cell phone, these are still very early 3d models, there are no details yet, only a general shape of hull and turret. Turret seems to be further evolution of that developed for WPB Anders, seems that there is some sort of RWS on turret roof.

I think we should wait these 6 months untill engineers will not reveal some more informations and perhaps first technology demonstrator should be presented by then.

 

[Damian]

Turret is definetely unmanned, but also seems well armored, however is seems that due to lack of more details, we do not know how exactly crew will be placed.

It is hard to not be optimistic, I wish our engineers everything best, I think we are first smaller country that wants to design a tank with unmanned turret.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The Gun seems to be the experimental 120mm cannon you posted few months back..

 

[Damian]

The Gun seems to be the experimental 120mm cannon you posted few months back..

Don't know Kunal, we will see.



A better quality screenshots I made few minutes ago, turret is indeed 100% unmanned, but hull seems to be inspired by Merkava, I think engine might be in the end at front, we will see tough.

 

[STGN]

Do you have that paper? I would be curious to see this.
AFAIK, till Greece competition, armor values where not revealed to other countries...

Heres the paper
There are two mentions of ballistic protection first is that swedish-german developed armor was between 50-100% more effective than the French developed armor in some aspects and also more effective than then Abrams armor.
This part seems really unclear, they tested different modules of turret and hull armor but where the improvement was? How ever Ã…kers Krutbruk today makes addon armor moduls and from old 1996 page seems to say that they made the turret roof protection and spall liner for the Strv122.

Second is that the armor protection/survivability rating 1: LEO2 2:M1A2 3:Leclerc

STGN

 

[Damian]

Heres the paper
There are two mentions of ballistic protection first is that swedish-german developed armor was between 50-100% more effective than the French developed armor in some aspects and also more effective than then Abrams armor.
This part seems really unclear, they tested different modules of turret and hull armor but where the improvement was? How ever Ã…kers Krutbruk today makes addon armor moduls and from old 1996 page seems to say that they made the turret roof protection and spall liner for the Strv122.

Second is that the armor protection/survivability rating 1: LEO2 2:M1A2 3:Leclerc

STGN

M1A2 tested in Sweden was equipped with Export Armor Package, or such package was tested in form of test modules. If I remember correctly Swedes were a bit disappointed that they had no opportunity to test Heavy Armor Package.

 

[STGN]

M1A2 tested in Sweden was equipped with Export Armor Package, or such package was tested in form of test modules. If I remember correctly Swedes were a bit disappointed that they had no opportunity to test Heavy Armor Package.

Its possible that might have an influence but I think that what they are really talking about is not the front turret or hull armor but the roof protection and spall liner, maybe side skirts and other "minor" parts. I see this as an "overall" protection % increase not that the armor in the turret front armor cavity of the Leo is 1.5+ times as effective as the Leclerc or Abrams. This makes sense to me since the 1" and 2" plates are used on the Abrams roof and looking at the leclerc it seems to be in the same order.
STGN