LOC, LAC & IB skirmishs

[Kunal Biswas]

Let Army and Administration worry about that ..

What would be the proof on who fired the first shots, both sides can claim it to not to be aggressor.

 

[mahesh]

Look at the rate of fire, Enemy will feel mini MBRL pounding ..

Of-course the round are illumination, during any battle it could be easily HE..

please educate me on this the mortors are falling slowly like a things falling with a parachute. why arent they ramming in the sky ?

 

[aghamarshana]

What would be the proof on who fired the first shots, both sides can claim it to not to be aggressor.

AFAIK....With the Chinese state media blazing all guns at India,also considering the international view of China as a bully which doesn't honor law and ruling section,even if we fire a round first we will not be seen as the aggressor..Then we'll pursue our diplomatic & psychological warfare on chinkese by interacting and getting the support of China's adversaries like vietnam,japan,s.korea,thailand who would support our stand as purely defensive in nature on any given day...Every major power would support us over china,which only has the support of rogue states like Islamic Fuckin' republic of Porkistan and North Korea...Also we r in a defensive posture and hence,we'll have our own proofs...State media would run those 'proofs' and international community comes 2 a conclusion dat China is the Aggressor.

 

[aghamarshana]

Look at the rate of fire, Enemy will feel mini MBRL pounding ..

Of-course the round are illumination, during any battle it could be easily HE..

What is its caliber bro?81 mm or 120 mm?

 

[Shadow]

A lot is being said that we have 12 Acclimatized Mountain divisions, where as the Chinese have only 3 Acclimatized military brigade.(Heard all this from social media)
Considering the fact that a Division consist of around 15000 troops and a brigade around 3000 troops:
That means we have around 180000 troops against 9000 Chinese troops.
I am unable to digest this number.Someone please correct me and kindly explain the manpower situation in broader sense.
Thanks in advance.

 

[tharun]

please educate me on this the mortors are falling slowly like a things falling with a parachute. why arent they ramming in the sky ?

They are illumination rounds for the better visibility and to ligt the battlefield .So they fall and burn slowly .

What is its caliber bro?81 mm or 120 mm?

81mm.........If 120mm the movie will be different.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

================

The PLA Air Force 15th Airborne Corps, comprises three airborne divisions (43rd, 44th, 45th airborne divisions). The PLA Air Force's 15th Airborne Corps is China's primary strategic airborne unit and it is part of the newly formed rapid reaction units (RRU) of the Chinese military which is primarily designated for airborne and special operation missions. Unlike most armed forces, the airborne division is part of the Air Force and its role is similar to that of the U.S. Army's 82nd Airborne Division.

These three divisions can deploy to any part of China within 48 hours:

* 43rd Airborne Division (15th Airborne Corps)
* 44th Airborne Division (15th Airborne Corps)
* 45th Airborne Division (15th Airborne Corps)

The PLAAF could lift all three division of 33,000 men with light tanks and self-propelled artillery. Reports claim that a 10,000 man airborne division was transported to Tibet in less than 48 hours in 1988.

15th Airborne Corps to acts as a principal force employed for independent campaign missions in future wars. It is now accepted that the airborne troops should be used for pre-emptive attack on the enemy's key military targets in the rear area in order to paralyze or disrupt its preparation for an offensive. This kind of large-scale mission cannot be conducted without having a total control in the air. Also, a single-lift capability of 50,000 men is required for this type of missions.


The Airborne Divisions have various special units, including weapons controllers, reconnaissance, infantry, artillery, communications, engineering, chemical defense, and transportation soldiers. Today, the Airborne Divisions have three regiments plus one light artillery regiment, which are further divided into battalions and companies.


In times of war, the 15th Airborne Corps can also utilize civilian aircraft such as Shaanxi Y-9, Shaanxi Y-8, Xian Y-7, C-130s, HU-1s, AS332s, Chinooks, and a very large number of Y-5 (700+) utility transports. During a number of exercises, the 15th Airborne Corps has demonstrated it can move a regiment plus of paratroopers with light armored vehicles to anywhere within China in less than 24 hours. These exercises also show that a large number of para-gliders are in use.


=================

Of-course they are modernized now ..

That means we have around 180000 troops against 9000 Chinese troops.Thanks in advance.

 

[tharun]

Chinese can reach 70,000 in 48hrs if war broke out ..

What about our number.....................................................?

 

[Vayuputra]

PAK BAT Team attacked our post leaving JCO rank officer martyred and one soldier injured

 

[Vayuputra]

Feed the body to pigs and advertise it

have you gone nuts or you a porki?

 

[Bhoot Pishach]

Chinese can reach 70,000 in 48hrs if war broke out ..

Not Possible Sir!! On the insane Heights of Himalayas of 4-5 Km High then SEA LEVEL.

Indian Troops are doing MANDATORY 7-15 Days of ACCLIMATISATION around 2500mtrs to 3000mtrs before moving to LAC.

Same is also true about Chinese Troops.

Tibet is also about 4Km (4000 mtrs) Height, on an average. Please also consider the fact, the local food production in Tibet is not very much to sustain so many troops.

The Troops in such large numbers requires Hell lot of Foods and other essentials. They are basically dependent on long-long logistics lines which, starches no less then 2000Km (Kilometers) Away. Which runs through most hostile environment on earth (through frozen soil PERMAFROST).

Just Imagine India has to sustain its troops in Sikkim from Hyderabad and Bangalore, such long and starched are Chinese LOGISTICS are.

Even if they reach there in NUMBERS, it would not be possible to sustain them, there for long.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Korean war, 62 war is a example they can flood in thousands to die ..

Even if they reach there in NUMBERS, it would not be possible to sustain them, there for long.

 

[Vayuputra]

Abey scamgress, tereko itni jalan kyon ho Rahi hai terrorists ke marne se. Doob mar gobar.mai.

teek se pad pehle maine kya lika, we lost one jco rank officer in the attack by pak bat team

 

[Bhoot Pishach]

Korean war, 62 war is a example they can flood in thousands to die ..

China has changed a lot!!!

They are SINGLE BABY EMPERORS of a Nuclear Family, thanx to ONE CHILD POLICY.

If a Chinese Soldier Dies, he will left behind Two Parents, Four Grand Parents (Six in total), whom there will be no-one to look after.

And now Chinese have gone richer also (Middle Income Country).

The Chinese Blood has gone COSTLIER then what it was under MAO.

Think about when BODY BAGS RETURN BACK TO "HAN-LAND", what will happen to Psychology of HANs?? Which had a relatively Peaceful Run since 1962, without any Serious Blood Bath.

 

[Kazah]

Car blast in pakistan occupied balochistan (Quetta)

20+ injured, 2 dead

 

[Screambowl]

That's what i told you brother that the matter of concern is that people from frontier villages are migrating due to lack of Jobs and this is the major concern for the govt and army. I am not blaming the people. You can even google this news.

This said, there is a legend of 1962 war when coy of 4 Garhwal was attacked by Chinese locals including the women help the Battalion fighting Chinese , apart from general assistance to the army.

Yeah I know. Because connecting the villages is not an easy task. It takes a lot of time to reach next village which is like just over the hill from foothills. Other reason is some vouch that infrastructure will destroy the flora and fauna.


From Military point of view, the army should make this state military specific for training institutes, OFB, school of intelligence , ordnance factories can be set up here, radar production units, as it's a good place to test them with one of the highest peaks in himalayas, if nothing else can work out. More over people will support it too.

 

[scatterStorm]

Add to that most electronic items, including mobile phones, pen drives, computer parts and peripherals including the keyboards which we are now bashing, food items, pre-packaged desserts, look-alike handbags and luggage having global brand names, toys batteries and tyres!

There's plenty more. Do you have any of these.....

Mobiles

1.Alcatel
2.Haier
3.Gionnee
4.G’Five
5.Coolpad
6.Lenovo
7.OnePlus
8.Oppo
9.Vivo
10.Xiaomi
11. Zopo
12. ZTE

Laptops

1.Lenovo
2. Asus
3.Acer

And more!!

Yep! All frikkin Chinese stuff! We seem to have lost the war on this front!

Dang it, just own only a piece of there stuff, a headphone from house of marley, although designed in California, it's made in china, don't worry will soon get rid of it until it's warranty is over.

Can say proudly, that own nothing else ... always went with Korean and Japanese or Indigenous stuff. Also seeing people starting to boycott there goods.

 

[Screambowl]

* 43rd Airborne Division (15th Airborne Corps)
* 44th Airborne Division (15th Airborne Corps)
* 45th Airborne Division (15th Airborne Corps)

What does IA have to counter them?

Lets say each division is given task to strike three places,

1 tawang,
2 Doklam
3. Nathu la

 

[lcafanboy]

Doklam standoff: China playing out its ‘Three Warfares’ strategy against India
Indrani Bagchi| TNN | Updated: Aug 12, 2017, 09:35 PM IST
HIGHLIGHTS

• China's 'Three Warfares' comprises media warfare, psychological warfare and legal warfare
• Deploying this strategy, China gained supremacy over the Philippines in the South China Sea
• China's claim that Bhutan has acceded to Beijing's sovereignty in Doklam is part of 3Ws strategy, experts say

NEW DELHI: Is China playing out its 'Three Warfares' strategy against India? Indian strategists who are involved with China in the current Doklam crisis believe China has now fully operationalized this concept and is applying it to the Doklam crisis.

The Three Warfares
The provenance of the 'Three Warfares' is not fully established. But according to sources, in 2003, China's Central Military Commission (CMC) approved the guiding concepts for "information operations for the PLA, also known as "Three Warfares" (san zhong zhanfa). It was reinforced in 2010. Comprising public opinion/media warfare, psychological warfare and legal warfare, the Three Warfares have been critical components of China's strategic approach in the South China Sea+ and beyond. It is now being applied in the Indian context.

China's 'Three Warfares' against the Phillipines
In 2016, this concept was at work after the UNCLOS tribunal ruled against China in a comprehensive verdict dismissing China's claims in the South China Sea.+Despite the fact that the Philippines achieved a major international victory against the depredations of a more powerful but more aggressive neighbour, China, with its application of the Three Warfares, was able to successfully co-opt Rodrigo Duterte (Phillipines President) to its side. One year later, China has emerged victorious. Nobody mentions the UNCLOS ruling, and the Philippines has submitted to Beijing's superior power.

Doklam: Media Warfare
In the Doklam context, China has been using this concept to influence domestic and international public opinion in support of China's actions — in this case trampling over Bhutan's claims and ripping up the 2012 agreement on tri-junctions. China's state-owned media, foreign ministry, defence ministry and even foreign minister Wang Yi have let loose a barrage of statements+ and press briefings and commentaries, with the intention of dissuading India from its actions at the site.

Doklam: Psychological warfare
With every Indian media outlet amplifying the Chinese message, the idea is to use Indians to put pressure on the Indian government and get them to withdraw, largely by doubting India's own assertions. Closely related is the psychological warfare unleashed by China — this has been everything from calling Sushma Swaraj a "liar"+ to saying the "countdown had begun"; assertions that China would rescind its decision on Sikkim or "free" Sikkim from Indian oppression; or that it could interfere in J&K"-- all intended to "undermine India's ability to conduct combat operations through psychological operations aimed at deterring, shocking and demoralizing enemy military personnel."

Suddenly, pictures of 1962 war were flashed through Chinese media, which remains a sore point in India. Some Chinese commentaries even said 1962 veterans would send their children to fight India, since that was how angry the average Chinese was. Yet, As TOI pointed out+ some time ago, the Doklam issue was not among the top 50 trends on Weibo, their social media platform, which boasts 560 million followers!

The Indian non-response has been the worst thing for China. India's China experts have led the way in the government and even the opposition refused to react to China's tactics to prevent China from executing a war without firing a single shot.

Doklam: Legal Warfare
In 2016, the 'Three Warfare' operations exerted a strong "psychological frightening force" on everyone connected with the South China Sea issue. Official Chinese media described the arbitration as a "farce" which did not need to be obeyed, while officially the Chinese ambassador to the US, Cui Tiankai, argued that the arbitration case would "undermine the authority and effectiveness of international law," justifying China's rejection of it as a defense of "international justice and the true spirit of international law". So China, the rule-breaker suddenly became China, the rule-defender.

Something similar is underway vis-a-vis India now, sources believe. Earlier this week, a Chinese official claimed that Bhutan had "accepted" Chinese sovereignty+ on Doklam forcing Thimphu to have to refute it. Thimphu could have, as Manila did, refrained from an official denial, which would have been recorded as a Chinese victory. While China claims Doklam as its own, they have conveniently glossed over the fact that Bhutan and China have held 24 rounds of talks on this dispute.



As historian Srinath Raghavan has pointed out, the 1890 convention which China suddenly swears by, was not binding on Bhutan. The Chinese claim that Mt Gipmochi should be the tri-junction as mentioned in the 1890 convention is also "problematic." "The principle of defining the boundary therefore was the highest watershed: the highest line of mountains separating the rivers flowing on either side. This is the most logical way of drawing a boundary in mountainous regions. However, subsequent surveys showed that Mount Gipmochi is not on the highest watershed in the area. The latter is the line running from Batang-La to Merugla to Sinchela and then down to the Amo Chu river."

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He continues, "The Gipmochi peak is at 14,518ft above the mean sea level, while Merugla and Sinchela (both passes) are respectively at 15,266ft and 14,531ft. The Batangla-Merugla-Sinchela line is undeniably the highest watershed in the region. Hence Bhutan claims it as the boundary line with Tibet and regards Doklam area as its territory. Hence, India claims that Batangla should be the tri-junction."


But by now, China has flooded the media and airwaves with its contention that first, the 1890 Convention is sacrosanct (although China refuses to accept the 1914 convention and McMahon Line of 1914) and that Mt Gipmochi is the tri-junction not Batang-La. In addition, as Raghavan points out, if China is right and there was no dispute, why has China been holding talks with Bhutan?




Writing for IDSA, research fellow Abhijit Singh wrote, "The evolving Chinese 3Ws strategy goes beyond mere propaganda wars and misinformation campaigns. Expanding conventional war dynamics into the political domain, the 3Ws appear aimed at undermining India's organizational foundations and target military morale. More disquietingly, the strategy appears designed to subdue India without even needing to fight."
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...rategy-against-india/articleshow/60036197.cms

 

[lcafanboy]

India Showing Maturity On 'Tantrum-Throwing' China On Doklam: US Expert
Praising India's conduct over the Doklam standoff with China, James R Holmes, professor of strategy at the US Naval War College, said New Delhi has done things right thus far
All India | Press Trust of India | Updated: August 12, 2017 15:03 IST
by Taboola
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India and China have been locked in a faceoff in Doklam


WASHINGTON:
HIGHLIGHTS

1. India and China have been locked in a faceoff in Doklam
2. If dispute escalates, US may openly support New Delhi, the expert said
3. China looks like an adolescent throwing a tantrum, the expert said

India is "behaving like a mature power" in tackling the Doklam standoff in the Sikkim sector and making China look like an adolescent throwing a "temper tantrum", a top American defence expert has said. India and China have been locked in a faceoff in Doklam for the last 50 days after Indian troops stopped the Chinese People's Liberation Army from building a road in the area.


Praising India's conduct over the matter, James R Holmes, professor of strategy at the US Naval War College, said, "New Delhi has done things right thus far, neither backing away from the dispute nor replying in kind to Beijing's over-the-top rhetoric."

"It is behaving as the mature power and making China look like the adolescent throwing a temper tantrum," Mr Holmes said.

Mr Holmes said it was "weird" that China wanted to keep alive a boundary dispute with its most formidable neighbour. "If China wants to pursue an assertive maritime strategy, it needs secure borders on land so it doesn't have to worry about overland aggression from its neighbours," Mr Holmes said.



"In other words, confronting India in the Himalayas is not a purely rational course of action driven by rational cost/benefit analysis," said the professor.


On why the US has remained silent so far on this issue, he said the current administration has too much on its plate.

"It's also possible Prime Minister (Narendra) Modi and his advisers don't want the United States involved in a Himalayan dispute it has little way of influencing. If the dispute escalates, chances are Washington will come out in support of New Delhi," Mr Holmes said.
http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/indi...um-throwing-china-on-doklam-us-expert-1736830