LCA Tejas vs JF-17 Thunder

[farhan_9909]

Even jagur is to be upgraded with FBW ,does that mean it will become fully relaxed static stability plane on par with F16 and mirage-2000.The lsp-7 of tejas is sporting an aux intake to address the air intake issue.SO it will be resolved with full flight envelope opening.

FBW was upgraded to complete quadruplex fbw before 2007..before the entry into service..when JFT was in development stage

is it that hard to get or what?

 

[ersakthivel]

FBW was upgraded to complete quadruplex fbw before 2007..before the entry into service..when JFT was in development stage

is it that hard to get or what?

JF-17 is a third gen conventional stable flight profile platform , which is unstable in ONE AXIS ONLY and to control this instability in ONLY ONE axis it uses quadruplex fbw ( quadruplex fbw means 4 reduntant lines of control controlling ONLY ONE Axis in JF-17 not 4 axis as there are only threee axes in real world.)Since the design is conventional stable layout in other two axes it cannot be as agile as fully unstable platforms like tejas, F-16,mirage,rafale .

The Tejas is single-engined multirole fighter which features a tailless, compound delta planform and is designed with "relaxed static stability" for enhanced maneuverability. Originally intended to serve as an air superiority aircraft with a secondary "dumb bomb" ground-attack role, the flexibility of this design approach has permitted a variety of guided air-to-surface and anti-shipping weapons to be integrated for more well-rounded multirole and multimission capabilities.

This is what fully relaxed stability meaning unstable flight profile.

LCA tejas is a true 4.5th gen airframe which isan unstable flight profile platform , which is unstable in ALL THREE AXES and to control this instability in ALL THREE AXES it uses quadraplex fbw ( quadruplex fbw means 4 reduntant lines of control controlling LL THREE AXES in TEJAS LCA.).This is the exact configuration of planes like F-16,Mirage, grippen,rafale, eurofighter.This configuration imparts exceptional maneuverability in all three axes.

 

[Armand2REP]

why nt tell this to the manufacturer?

JFT at present has Quadruplex digital fbw. such as in the lca,j-10,f-16c/d onwards,f-18sh,eft

WTF is Quadruplex FBW? JF-17 only has FBW in the pitch axis.

 

[Sam2012]

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/.../44983-sri-lanka-air-force-buy-fc-1-a-21.html

Go through this

JFT serial produced variant has Quadruplex fbw.or onwards pt-04...hydraulics in pitch are only as back ups

rest of your post is indian.same can be said for IAF acm calling LCA as mig

AC Naik called LCA as Mig-21 ++ or 3rd ++ generation we accept you also accept very fair , He also called chinese 5th generation aircraft a junk yard of reverse engineering why u don't acknowledge that? 2morrow he will tell JF-17 = mig-19 will u accept ?

 

[farhan_9909]

JF-17 is a third gen conventional stable flight profile platform , which is unstable in ONE AXIS ONLY and to control this instability in ONLY ONE axis it uses quadruplex fbw ( quadruplex fbw means 4 reduntant lines of control controlling ONLY ONE Axis in JF-17 not 4 axis as there are only threee axes in real world.)Since the design is conventional stable layout in other two axes it cannot be as agile as fully unstable platforms like tejas, F-16,mirage,rafale .

As far as i know LCA is officially called Mig 21 by ACM

and your bounded by blind patriotism.
i am telling you since the past week that the fbw was upgraded and even quoted from the official JFT site.

i wont't go in detail but i advise you to please watch the performance of our k-8 sherdil and compare it with lca in aero india 2011.i bet if you excluse the blind patriotism which itself is next to impossible but let suppose if you do you wil surely find k-8 thousand times better in performance than lca.

This is what fully relaxed stability meaning unstable flight profile.

LCA tejas is a true 4.5th gen airframe which isan unstable flight profile platform , which is unstable in ALL THREE AXES and to control this instability in ALL THREE AXES it uses quadraplex fbw ( quadruplex fbw means 4 reduntant lines of control controlling LL THREE AXES in TEJAS LCA.).This is the exact configuration of planes like F-16,Mirage, grippen,rafale, eurofighter.This configuration imparts exceptional maneuverability in all three axes.

read the above.

 

[farhan_9909]

WTF is Quadruplex FBW? JF-17 only has FBW in the pitch axis.

first of all i have no intention of making a reply to you

but anyhow the jft prototype indeed had fbw only in the pitch axis.but onwards prototype 04.later upgraded

Some sources state that the system has been upgraded to provide fly-by-wire flight control in the roll and yaw axis also, the serial production aircraft having a digital quadruplex (quad-redundant) FBW system in the pitch axis and duplex (dual-redundant) FBW system in the roll and yaw axis

 

[farhan_9909]

i hope you know who is usman ansari

as i said onwards pt-04 the jft had full fbw in all axis.but since PAC site is nt updated from the last 6-7 years.the side doesnt include that yet

Usman Ansari
Aerodynamic changes have increased the manoeuvrability and versatility of the aircraft, and the SBP aircraft probably represent the final airframe configuration. The most notable of these has been the convex DSI (Divertless Supersonic Inlets) intakes. These have helped reduce the overall weight of the airframe, and after an internal redesign, freed up space for more stores, most notably fuel for slightly increased range. These weight saving changes have also allowed the maximum speed to be increased to Mach 1.8. Though this is still limited compared to current fighter aircraft, further changes, (most notably the powerplant), are likely to improve matters somewhat. Other internal changes include a full fly-by-wire set of controls, and more high tech avionics.

 

[farhan_9909]

again him

now it doesnt matter whether you guys agree or not.bt it doesnt change the fact that onwards pt-04 the fbw was upgraded

Re: JF-17 related discussion: Jan- April 2009

Fawad the control systems in the initial prototypes were FBW (pitch only) plus conventional. I was told that due to some problems experienced with the earlier prototypes (in one of the axis, can't recall which one) it was decided to go with a full FBW system. I believe all the JF-17's from PT 04 onward are equipped with a full FBW system.

 

[ersakthivel]

Well you can fit FBW even in MIG-21 and derive some residual operational advantage,that is not the point.

What I said was tejas belongs to 4.5th gen airframes with full relaxed stability in all axes.

JF-17 belongs to 3rd gen airframes with stable conventional flight profile with relaxation in only in one axis.

Difference is tejas will exhibit agility with the aid of FBW in all three axes , while JF_17 can display this agility in only one axis.

 

[ice berg]

Well you can fit FBW even in MIG-21 and derive some residual operational advantage,that is not the point.

What I said was tejas belongs to 4.5th gen airframes with full relaxed stability in all axes.

JF-17 belongs to 3rd gen airframes with stable conventional flight profile with relaxation in only in one axis.

Difference is tejas will exhibit agility with the aid of FBW in all three axes , while JF_17 can display this agility in only one axis.

Anyone else besides you who classify jets this way?

You sure are good to make up stuff.

 

[farhan_9909]

Anyone else besides you who classify jets this way?

You sure are good to make up stuff.

brother leave him

despite all the proof i posted that onwards pt-04 jft has full fbw.

he is deluded by blind patriotism.

even though i told him if you want to compare LCA agility with JFT you should first watch how k-8 performs..

i am sure if he ever watches sherdil performance.he wont call lca maneuverible ever

 

[farhan_9909]

Well you can fit FBW even in MIG-21 and derive some residual operational advantage,that is not the point.

What I said was tejas belongs to 4.5th gen airframes with full relaxed stability in all axes.

JF-17 belongs to 3rd gen airframes with stable conventional flight profile with relaxation in only in one axis.

Difference is tejas will exhibit agility with the aid of FBW in all three axes , while JF_17 can display this agility in only one axis.

JFT has full fbw even the SBP(small batch production had full fbw in all axis).

though as i said in my above post.your hit by blind patriotism.

 

[farhan_9909]

someone should post the best performance video of lca be it.

 

[ersakthivel]

someone should post the best performance video of lca be it.

Lca is yet to open it's full flight performance and once it's over within a couple of years you can compare the videos.

In the aeroindia 2011 LCA flew with 6G limitations ,with AOA limit of within 22 degree, and top speed limited to mach 1.6,and the partially opened flight envelope constraining it's performance.

Also the LSP-7 is having aux air intake to increase the airflow to the engine to get the full thrust from GE engine.

So you cannot compare it with the in operation JF-17 performance.

 

[ersakthivel]

JFT has full fbw even the SBP(small batch production had full fbw in all axis).

though as i said in my above post.your hit by blind patriotism.

There is nothing patriotic in defining FULLY RELAXED STABILITY FLY BY WIRE , from ONE AXIS RELAXED STABILITY FBW.

But as there is no point in prolonging it further lets not discuss this stuff in this thread again.Let the members make their own conclusion and move on.

 

[farhan_9909]

Lca is yet to open it's full flight performance and once it's over within a couple of years you can compare the videos.

In the aeroindia 2011 LCA flew with 6G limitations ,with AOA limit of within 22 degree, and top speed limited to mach 1.6,and the partially opened flight envelope constraining it's performance.

Also the LSP-7 is having aux air intake to increase the airflow to the engine to get the full thrust from GE engine.

So you cannot compare it with the in operation JF-17 performance.

Well First of all if you watch the video of jft pilot where he stated how they prepared within a short time for zhuhai performance,the limitation with jft and most important he mentioned unlike the western air forces(swedish,american,russian,french,india) they have dedicated pilots for performance in airshow.

he said when paf will get mature we will see even better performance.

on a rough note
zhuhai airshow performance of jft can be compared to f-16 performance.

 

[ersakthivel]

Anyone else besides you who classify jets this way?

You sure are good to make up stuff.

SO PLEASE GIVE ME YOUR GLOBALLY ACCEPTED definition on
1.FULLY RELAXED STABILITY FLY BY WIRE as present in F-16,mirage,tejas lca
and
2. ONE AXIS RELAXED STABILITY FBW as present in JF-17:thumb:.

Haven't you ever heard that british used jags for experimenting with FBW , and french used the early mirage -III for experiments on FBW?
Also the jaguar is going to have FBW. Does that mean it will become a fully relaxed stability platform like tejas and F-16?

Fly by wire just means that electrical signals are sent to control the control surfaces. It has nothin to do with FULLY RELAXED STABILITY which is related to airframe design?

DO you know that or not?

Who makes up which stuff ?You can help your pak friend FARHAN to learn about stuff.Don't try to fool other members.

 

[farhan_9909]

There is nothing patriotic in defining FULLY RELAXED STABILITY FLY BY WIRE , from ONE AXIS RELAXED STABILITY FBW.

But as there is no point in prolonging it further lets not discuss this stuff in this thread again.Let the members make their own conclusion and move on.

what about the proof's i posted directly from usman ansari?even usman shabbir whom was given pass by muradk(paf pilot also member in pdf) to gather info regarding jft

anyway in future whether you agree or not.it is a fact now that jft since prototype 04 has full fbw

once again PAF JFT is based on PT-04..pt-04 is in pac kamra pakistan

Chinese and for export JFT is based on PT-06 is in china.

 

[ersakthivel]

brother leave him

despite all the proof i posted that onwards pt-04 jft has full fbw.

he is deluded by blind patriotism.

even though i told him if you want to compare LCA agility with JFT you should first watch how k-8 performs..

i am sure if he ever watches sherdil performance.he wont call lca maneuverible ever

DON'T USE THE WORD BLIND PATRIOTISM to cover your inability to accept that JF-17 is not a fully relaxed stability fighter.

What is K-8?

 

[farhan_9909]

Pakistani-chinese jointly developed advance trainer