LCA Tejas vs JF-17 Thunder

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Russia blocks China's arms exports resulting Sino-Russian tensions


China's growing military strength of the fear caused by the Russian side, the field of military relations between the two countries in a number of new tensions, one of which is that Russia is taking measures to fully block China's arms exports.

Weapons in the emerging markets of China rival Russia's defense

From 2006 to 2007, China military relations between Russia and, especially in the sales area, will gradually deteriorate.

Although the cooling of bilateral relations, in part reflects the increased strength of China's defense industry, but more and more people began to Russia's defense industry on the increasing ability of China expressed concern, and the Chinese copy of Russian weapons design and in Asia, Africa and third-party market in Latin America the practice of trial of strength with Russia angry.

A copy of the Russian military weapons, not only make China a powerful military state, but also to become an emerging market, with the Russian defense match competitors. For example, the Russian experts to replicate the Chinese Su-27UBK surprised the speed of aircraft.

Allegedly, the end of 2009, the Chinese Central Military Commission Vice Chairman General Guo's visit to Moscow, the two sides did not sign the substantive military technical cooperation agreement.

In this regard, the Russian source said that during the visit, the Chinese side accused Russia of failure to comply with a number of bilateral military-technical agreement with China, a position that Russia is quite Yaran.

For China's accusations that Russia replied that the reason why Russia failed to sell Il -76 transport aircraft engines to China, because the production equipment in Uzbekistan has lost production capacity.

In response, China said Beijing will direct contacts with Uzbekistan, which means that Russia must Tashkent, Uzbekistan, aircraft manufacturing companies to inject new capital, which is impossible.

China also said its first phase will only purchase four Su -33 fighter, even though Russia plans to export to China 40 of the fighters.

Therefore, the two sides failed to reach an agreement Su -33 fighter. Russian media also strongly opposed to Russia's new generation of military technology export to China.

In addition, exports to China KA-28 anti-submarine helicopters, technology, China and Russia failed to reach agreement. Moscow do not want China to facilitate the sale of its aircraft and ships equipped with automatic keep in touch with communications and navigation systems.

However, it is reported that China will develop these systems self.

Although both sides agreed in principle to upgrade the Russian sale of two former China Modern-class destroyers and two Kilo-636 submarines, the early models, so the club could be launched 3M-54E anti-ship missiles, but the two sides are in the submarine is still in Russia Reconstruction in China such as Beijing like the issue of differences emerged.

If the construction in China, Russia must invest in Chinese factories, but Russia refused to do so.

While China and Russia to China to sell more helicopters and Al31F/FN meters -17 RD-93 aircraft engines and signed the agreement, but obviously the negotiations had reached an impasse.

And now the situation has become worse. Built in Wuhan, China, "Land aircraft carrier" clearly shocked the Russian and Western national experts. At least some experts believe it can be like a real aircraft carrier that can be used to take off as a training platform for carrier-based fighter.

Moscow blocking the export of arms to overseas Chinese

March of this year, Sukhoi general manager Mikhail Whale cell phase made it clear that although Russia may develop with India T-50 fifth generation fighter, and exported to countries such as Libya and Vietnam, but will not sell to China.

Russian arms sales to Vietnam and India, a boom (which exist between the two countries and China military tension) that Moscow hopes to obtain the aircraft required to stop China's technology and systems, because Russia worried that China will clone its technology, concerned that the Chinese have the military capability of this aircraft may, after some kind of action in the Indian Ocean.

In addition, Moscow is plainly to prevent the export of China to overseas fighters. For example, China, Russia agree to its exports to Myanmar's required FC1 RD-93 fighter engine exports to Myanmar in order to win the "MiG -29"³ fighter contract.

Moscow Myanmar intervention in this way by the Chinese JF-17 fighter procurement practices that Russia intended to prevent potential customers in China for sale to the Russian fighter.

At the same time, Russia's strategic and technical analysis, Hough Puke, director and other experts launched a press campaign, said that China can not copy the Russian fighters, as the result of very poor copy.

Puck Hough warned that China not only is it the procurement of all replication Russian fourth-generation fighters, but also copied the sale of the engine from Russia to China.

Similarly, the Russian defense officials have publicly vilified the ability of the Chinese F -15 fighter, Su -33 fighter as saying capacity.

Thus, while the Russian sale of fighter planes in China this year will use more than 40 RD-93 engine, but apparently the two sides in this area of competition and mutual suspicion are increasingly open.

Russia wants to contain China's military hardware procurement and the ability to grow, China's market penetration Third World countries is clear from these aspects.

Moscow's actions show that Russia is increasingly worried about China's military strength. Arms sales broke out between Moscow and Beijing, the only visible area of competition.

In Central Asia, such as the 2008 recognition of Abkhazia and South Ossetia, the break and in 2009 China natural gas pipeline outside the Russian monopoly in Central Asia can be seen in this conflict.

Reason to believe that in the recent outbreak of religious conflict in Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, China and Russia jointly to prevent military intervention in Kyrgyzstan, but also the first time, under the CSTO (and not just within the SCO) momentum over Moscow .

Military relations between China and Russia are increasing the tension

Military relations between China and Russia are increasing the tension, the two leaders are well aware.

June of this year, Chinese State Councilor Dai met Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said the international community is undergoing complex and radical change, so fully the importance of enhancing bilateral relations between Russia and the urgency to become " more prominent. "

Moreover, Chinese President Hu Jintao also said to Sergei Lavrov, to comprehensively strengthen bilateral relations, deepen cooperation and deepen the bilateral, regional and multilateral affairs major and sensitive to the exchange of views in order to achieve a deeper level of cooperation.
 

SpArK

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JF-17 is indeed a third generation fighter as per pakistan/chinese terminology of fighter aircraft generation

even the PAC site official term it as 3rd generation.nothing wrong about this

bt here

3rdgen=4th gen

Air Commodore was commenting " JF-17 to replace their second-and third-generation fighters, says Khalid, adding that the JF-17's capabilities put it between third and fourth generations." So technically the chinese version should be "JF-17 to replace their third-and fourth-generation fighters, says Khalid, adding that the JF-17's capabilities put it between fourth and fifth generations".

So which 4th gen fighter is JF-17 replacing???
'
Jf-17 is between 4th and 5th gen????:shocked:
 

sayareakd

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JF-17 is indeed a third generation fighter as per pakistan/chinese terminology of fighter aircraft generation

even the PAC site official term it as 3rd generation.nothing wrong about this

bt here

3rdgen=4th gen
At this rage F7P is 1nd generation and F7PG is 2nd generation. But the report does not say that it will replace F7p and M2k. So your post is flawed. It is 3G.><4G fighter.
 

sayareakd

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Air Commodore was commenting " JF-17 to replace their second-and third-generation fighters, says Khalid, adding that the JF-17's capabilities put it between third and fourth generations." So technically the chinese version should be "JF-17 to replace their third-and fourth-generation fighters, says Khalid, adding that the JF-17's capabilities put it between fourth and fifth generations".

So which 4th gen fighter is JF-17 replacing???
'
Jf-17 is between 4th and 5th gen????:shocked:
They have madarsa maths and science. We cant help them.
 

farhan_9909

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Air Commodore was commenting " JF-17 to replace their second-and third-generation fighters, says Khalid, adding that the JF-17's capabilities put it between third and fourth generations." So technically the chinese version should be "JF-17 to replace their third-and fourth-generation fighters, says Khalid, adding that the JF-17's capabilities put it between fourth and fifth generations".

So which 4th gen fighter is JF-17 replacing???
'
Jf-17 is between 4th and 5th gen????:shocked:

confusion indeed bt plzz post the source as well?which country?

beside this even your ACM(ranks higher than air commodore) termed lca as mig++( you know mig ++ is bhaijaan bisons)
 

farhan_9909

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kasam se
bicharey LCA b itna dill dukta ha :(

LCA:
*Better radar than JFT block 1(Note:eek:nly block-1)
*1 additional hardpoint for pods

JF-17
*much better payload
*better speed
*maneuveribility beyond the level of LCA mk1
*Already operational Operational
*More in number
*less cost
*Weapon package is very diverse
*a cropped delta design like F-16 might be one of the reason of ultra maneuveribility
*better ceiling
*better range
*DSI(Less rcs)
*RAM coating(courtesy Najam book about JFT)
*Block 2 within few months
*block 3 with major redesigning and ws-13B(121kn engine) to be mass produced even before the entry of LCA mk2(2017-18)
*Already won export order and growing
*twin ventral fins
*Lerx(for better AOA)
*Anti-ship role operational with yj83 and cm-400akg
*Sead role operational with brazil mar-1
*SOM role with C-802AKG
*BVR with sd-10A(in future sd-10B)
*LS-6 operational
*Present engine generate upto 85-86kn thrust
*A much better twr
*1000000 times better Cockpit comparable with any 4th/4.5th gen fighter

and what not
 

farhan_9909

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Don't let me post the news of LCA being built with low quality(2nd gen) infra....
 
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You have to defend JF-17 it is Pakistan's ONLY frontline fighter. India has more than one
frontline fighter any kinks in LCA can be worked out at a leisurely pace.
 

farhan_9909

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Thank God your consider JFT as front line fighter..while your country made f-16 as 2nd line

anyway i take words of air chief marshal and will blindly believe that LCA mk1 is mig 21 at present and lca mk2 is mig++ aka bison

if so was the case.we would have sold you our f-7pg fleet which itself has a higher thrust engine,italian avionics and radar certainly much ahead of bisons league.
 

SpArK

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confusion indeed bt plzz post the source as well?which country?

beside this even your ACM(ranks higher than air commodore) termed lca as mig++( you know mig ++ is bhaijaan bisons)

Its beyond doubt to all that design wise all modern fighters of recent years of the 4th gen have delta designs, GE makes better engines, French/Isreali avionics is better than chinese, European, Russian missiles are much advanced to chinese missiles, etc etc. But its hard to prove and convince you when mind is stuck in own fighter capability when inner conceince knows Pakistan bought JFT because it had no option but to agree with chinese, as chinese have capability to convince they can build whatver at a cheaper cost.

Its same with fighter,its same with anything.

If u personally go to some china city and say u want a phone like iphone, they will build it like that and you may WANT to believe its REALLY iphone, but in reality it is not.

You are repeating"
*much better payload *better speed*maneuveribility beyond the level of LCA mk1*Already operational Operational*More in number*less cost
These statistics are better for even MIg-21.. they are faster too.. even mig-23s.

Just pay attention in pdf, cause these sort of misinformation due to patriotic fanboyism is not much tolerated here by many.
 

farhan_9909

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@SpArK

better how?better put the points.or else read your ACM claim of lca being mig 21
 
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farhan_9909

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as a matter of fact JFT is a cropped delta design..

while LCA is a compount tail less delta even without canards neither lerx
 

gokussj9

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@farhan_9909

FICB, piece of shit, piling up garbage of nonsense posts everyday.
He is actually compensating for all the Bakistanis who do not post on this
forum but otherwise visit it.
 
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SpArK

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@SpArK

better how?better put the points.or else read your ACM claim of lca being mig 21
Engine, Avionics, Weapons Package, structural materials, every other material LCA has has been carefully chosen from the best vendors.

While JFT has Chinese components which are designed and manufactured with only 1 thing in mind "low cost".

The component quality is directly linked with cost factor. You just cant manufacture stuff out of thin air.

And i cant do a comparison between both , cause i dont know much about chinese missiles or their radars and other stuff , cause most of their stuff are sold to Pakistan and you guys believe its the best. Even the usual african, asian guys are not reordering.

Maybe JFT will evolve in future with advancements.

Regarding Mig-21++ no need to repeat it. It was on the context of high expactability of the IAF regarding the jet. We dont follow the usual thing of buying something and say to ourselves its the best, but believes to make something best and then buying.

We could have simply made a jet that flies and say its good, but IAF will only choose if its best, the MIG-21 comment was made so that maker is pushed to the limit.

Yes we have the privilege to push the manufacturer to limit. But u guys can only do the clapping if China "provides" something for the jet.

I dont have further points to continue the discussion since i dont need to convince people from 1 nation out of hundred nations regarding comparing a "carefully chosen components made costly fighter" and a "Chinese provided/delivered cheap fighter".


PS: dont further quote, i am on booze mode till end of the year and probably is last of posts here , this year.

Bye
 
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ersakthivel

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@SpArK

better how?better put the points.or else read your ACM claim of lca being mig 21
Farhan

Read the full text of acm naik's interview what he said was at present with IOC standards tejas is mig-21 ++, but with further validation of flight envelope and FOC it will be more potent and with mk-2 version it will be just short of grippen NG.
But many retards are mischeiviously clinging to the first sentence of his remark totally quoting him out of context.
 
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farhan_9909

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Engine, Avionics, Weapons Package, structural materials, every other material LCA has has been carefully chosen from the best vendors.

While JFT has Chinese components which are designed and manufactured with only 1 thing in mind "low cost".
*Engine?less thrust?82kn vs 86kn?
*Avionics?how explain technically.anything india get is termed world best.beside the fact that Su 30MKI is the world most cheeapest heavy class fighter but is termed best by fellow indians.
*again any explaination or how?JFT weapon package is well diverse as well.show me a missile even remotely equilent of sd-10B with russia.?
*if 40millions per JFT is cheap.beside this as told you before J-10 avionics found the way into JFT.reason fast development

The component quality is directly linked with cost factor. You just cant manufacture stuff out of thin air.

And i cant do a comparison between both , cause i dont know much about chinese missiles or their radars and other stuff , cause most of their stuff are sold to Pakistan and you guys believe its the best. Even the usual african, asian guys are not reordering.
when you dnt know about certain thing than would be alot better if you keep queit than rather making amateur statement.

Maybe JFT will evolve in future with advancements.

Regarding Mig-21++ no need to repeat it. It was on the context of high expactability of the IAF regarding the jet. We dont follow the usual thing of buying something and say to ourselves its the best, but believes to make something best and then buying.
same can be said for the air commodore statement
We could have simply made a jet that flies and say its good, but IAF will only choose if its best, the MIG-21 comment was made so that maker is pushed to the limit.

Yes we have the privilege to push the manufacturer to limit. But u guys can only do the clapping if China "provides" something for the jet.
Most dull statement from you.
what have you developed for LCA?landing gear?
when
*avionics
*engines
*weapons
*design help is taken from france(though ditched by france for giving you a compount delta tailless configuration..i dnt know why even HAL accepted this design from french)

I dont have further points to continue the discussion since i dont need to convince people from 1 nation out of hundred nations regarding comparing a "carefully chosen components made costly fighter" and a "Chinese provided/delivered cheap fighter".
40million USD is cheap?

PS: dont further quote, i am on booze mode till end of the year and probably is last of posts here , this year.

Bye
the reason i didnt quoted you bt your amateur dull statements

bye.cya
 

farhan_9909

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Farhan

Read the full text of acm naik's interview what he said was at present with IOC standards tejas is mig-21 ++, but with further validation of flight envelope and FOC it will be more potent and with mk-2 version it will be just short of grippen NG.
But many retards are mischeiviously clinging to the first sentence of his remark totally quoting him out of context.
AGREED
the reason i dnt take statement such serious

both LCA mk1 and JFT I and II are 4th gen

though both LCA mk2 and JFT III would be 4.5th gen fighter
 

ersakthivel

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AGREED
the reason i dnt take statement such serious

both LCA mk1 and JFT I and II are 4th gen

though both LCA mk2 and JFT III would be 4.5th gen fighter
well, I quit. Simply I don't have the stomach for picking up another long fight at the end of the year.
 

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