LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[jai jaganath]

While 100% reliability and performance cannot be guaranteed for any weapon system, nonetheless the matter should be investigated.
But a single test firing cannot be used to arrive at a conclusion.
Important to find out out what is the failure percentage. Whether it matches the manufacturer's promised performance parameters.

I assume that all the missiles were well within the stipulated expiry dates.

Both Russian and Western weapons cannot guarantee 100% reliability.
Same rule applies for indigenous weapons also.

But there is a very big advantage of using indigenously designed, developed and manufactured weapons.
Since the entire system is made in India including the hardware and software it becomes much more easier to trouble shoot. We can identify the anamoly and initiate remedial measures. Not wait for the OEM to come and solve the problem.

It will be very very unlikely that the makers of imported weapons especially high tech weapons will have transferred a complete 100% of the technical data about the weapons. Usually some of the key component parts will be fully imported without India being allowed to make it.

We need both WVR and BVR air to air missiles of indigenous make.
If certain classes of Air to Air missiles need to be imported for more effective defence against aerial threats, we also need to ensure that every IAF fighter aircraft carries a mixture of fully indigenous AAM's and imported AAM's.

It maybe possible that our own fully indigenous AAM's could become our last line of defence if the high cost imported missiles fail to function as promised.

I don't want to sound pro American or pro Russian
But today both the r-73 i.e from tejas and samar failed to hit the target
I know no weapon guarantees 100% success but consecutively failing to strike the target raises some question and especially against same sort of drone
Infact during rehearsal samar did hit the target
I think they will release some info regarding it

 

[Tridev123]

I don't want to sound pro American or pro Russian
But today both the r-73 i.e from tejas and samar failed to hit the target
I know no weapon guarantees 100% success but consecutively failing to strike the target raises some question and especially against same sort of drone
Infact during rehearsal samar did hit the target
I think they will release some info regarding it

Regarding the specific details of the target(whether it was a drone or a heat radiating flare or an electronic target) I don't think we will have access to all the details. But if the AAM's are repeatedly failing against a particular type of threat then obviously answers have to be found.

But as far as indigenous weapons are concerned, I would go so far as to say that no IAF/Navy fighter aircraft should fly only with imported AAM's. At least one fully indigenous WVR missile and one fully indigenous BVR missile should be carried along with the imported stuff.

We cannot afford to always put our security 100% in the hands of imported weapons.

 

[patriots]

 

[patriots]

Akash did not miss it's target

 

[SilentlAssassin265]

Lots of negative reporting is going on.
Akash didn't miss any target and r73 is a shitty missile which we already trying to get rid of.
Samar was made only to finish the stock of r73 missile.

And how are we suppose to blane LCA for failure of missile and bombs

 

[jai jaganath]

Lots of negative reporting is going on.
Akash didn't miss any target and r73 is a shitty missile which we already trying to get rid of.
Samar was made only to finish the stock of r73 missile.

And how are we suppose to blane LCA for failure of missile and bombs

Avoid those paki accounts and Chinese troll accounts
They have no job other than speaking against indigenous products even we have such people on our side but still better avoid them
R73 gave its shitty performance today and I hope iaf will look into it

 

[SilentlAssassin265]

Avoid those paki accounts and Chinese troll accounts
They have no job other than speaking against indigenous products even we have such people on our side but still better avoid them
R73 gave its shitty performance today and I hope iaf will look into it

R73 and R77 procurement was already stopped after 2019 incident we are only buying mica and asraam

 

[daya]

failures must be accepted. if the target was so small, why it was chosen.. and if choosing such a small target was compulsory, why no other counter platform was selected..

 

[DumbPilot]

And how are we suppose to blane LCA for failure of missile and bombs

The missile is an independent unit, but the failure to hit the target with bombs can be placed on the plane itself - it's a dumb general purpose bomb, so all the calculations about when and where to release the bomb have to be made by the FCR and other sensors.

I haven't seen the videos, no one is talking about by how much the bomb missed(if it missed by 5-10m, then it's as good as hitting the target anyway)

 

[AnantS]

The missile is an independent unit, but the failure to hit the target with bombs can be placed on the plane itself - it's a dumb general purpose bomb, so all the calculations about when and where to release the bomb have to be made by the FCR and other sensors.

I haven't seen the videos, no one is talking about by how much the bomb missed(if it missed by 5-10m, then it's as good as hitting the target anyway)

Thats very naive argument. Unless the whole aim, lock and release is automated or AI driven - you cant blame plane for that. It depends at what junction pilot pressed release. And then accurcy is not always pin point as the there are other random environmental variables that come into play or even simple pilot mis-timed release that can cause off target. Sometimes fuse doesnt go off and bomb due to sheer momentum, type of surface it impacted first and can bounce of from intended impact point without exploding. I think there shall be causal analysis for the same and its upto IAF professionals to ponder about the same.

 

[daya]

The missile is an independent unit, but the failure to hit the target with bombs can be placed on the plane itself - it's a dumb general purpose bomb, so all the calculations about when and where to release the bomb have to be made by the FCR and other sensors.

I haven't seen the videos, no one is talking about by how much the bomb missed(if it missed by 5-10m, then it's as good as hitting the target anyway)

Bomb fell very close, but failed to detonate... no problem with Tejas.. It was really unfortunate co-incident.. Now the HAL, ADA and DRDO should arrange a demonstration of Tejas with fresh weaponry...

 

[DumbPilot]

Thats very naive argument. Unless the whole aim, lock and release is automated or AI driven - you cant blame plane for that. It depends at what junction pilot pressed release. And then accurcy is not always pin point as the there are other random environmental variables that come into play or even simple pilot mis-timed release that can cause off target. Sometimes fuse doesnt go off and bomb due to sheer momentum, type of surface it impacted first and can bounce of from intended impact point without exploding. I think there shall be causal analysis for the same and its upto IAF professionals to ponder about the same.

Yes, that is correct(which is why I said that if the bomb fell down 5m to 10m away from the target, then it was good as hit)

On the weapon release: in normal bombing modes(CCRP, CCIP) the pilot can only hold the consent button for the computer to release the bomb - he himself does not do anything. The computer makes all the calculations and decides when to release the bomb, and it releases it only if the pilot is pressing the weapon release button.

Inaccuracy of 10-30ft is expected in that case with dumb bombs, because the computer can only know the condition of winds, etc. at the altitude it currently is at, not the ones below it.

If the bomb failed to detonate, then that is another issue entirely.

For reference, CCRP(pre-planned):

CCIP(target of opportunity):

 

[DumbPilot]

Does anybody know which bombs were used ??

Standard 450kg GP bomb, it looks like.

I don't know what color codes the IAF uses for dummy/live munitions, but I am assuming it's a live munition since it's a public exercise meant specifically for the top people to see. Either way, the bomb not detonating isn't a great look, guess IAF will be busy in an internal investigation

 

[Raj Malhotra]

Standard 450kg GP bomb, it looks like.

View attachment 241023

I don't know what color codes the IAF uses for dummy/live munitions, but I am assuming it's a live munition since it's a public exercise meant specifically for the top people to see. Either way, the bomb not detonating isn't a great look, guess IAF will be busy in an internal investigation

Is there a bomb on center pylon also?

 

[Raj Malhotra]

It would mean Tejas is carrying 5 x 500kg payload, with a LGP pod. Pretty good haul

 

[NutCracker]

It would mean Tejas is carrying 5 x 500kg payload, with a LGP pod. Pretty good haul

Enough payload left for a jammer on one wingtip and dual rack IR-CCM on the other.

 

[NutCracker]

Those are 450kg ones

Not just that on onboard pylon it can carry 2 x450kg bombs and 1 in middle with this grand total 5 bombs and a quite long range with 2x drop tanks 2nd wing pylons 2x 800 litre fuel tanks... Or 2 BVRs.
The onboard pylon will host 1.3 ton brahmos in future.
Tejas should have had a bigger centre line fuel tank or 2 more stations for bvr it would have a very potent omnirole platform.. just saying
View attachment 241105
View attachment 241103

Here is a lesser seen photu with alternative configuration. Good enough for 600 km radius.

 

[Master Chief]

Both Akash missiles exploded sufficiently near the target drones to alter the targets' trajectories..
Only R-73 was a dud

 

[Bleh]

I don't understand, kaha miss hua?.. sahi to hai. 🫤

Here is a lesser seen photu with alternative configuration. Good enough for 600 km radius.
radius.

I'm good aren't I?

 

[patriots]