LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

daya

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The bomb did detonate dropped by Tejas it has a delayed fuse. Only r73 failed that too partially
The youtuber has not seen the complete video. Though it is correct that Tejas is being given a bad name while the missile failed to detonate.
 

MirageBlue

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The failure of the R-73E fired by the Tejas Mk1 to detonate next to the Banshee target drone after having acquired the target and flown right upto it will do one good thing- it'll accelerate the likely retirement of the R-73E from the active combat fighter fleet in favor of the ASRAAM (aka NG-CCM).

There is a huge number of R-73Es in service still with the Su-30MKI, MiG-29UPG, Bison and Tejas Mk1 fleets. Bisons are anyway going to retire completely in 2025 with one squadron to go in 2024 itself. ASRAAMs are due to be built in India under a JV with MBDA. We may see a larger order for these in the near future as well as integration with the MiG-29UPG (I believe the ASRAAM has already been integrated with Su-30MKI).

These could be handed over to SAMAR batteries which will be cheap to acquire, allowing the IAF and IA to bring in huge numbers of organic, mobile Short range ADS. It is something that even Germany is doing with the IRIS-T now. In the meantime there will definitely be some sort of internal investigation to understand why the R-73E didn't detonate near the drone. If need be, DRDO may be asked to intervene and help upgrade the stocks of R-73Es.
 

Tridev123

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the radio proximity fuse failed to trigger detonation.. it was old missile with old proximity fuse technology.. samar uses all old missiles whose shelf life is over , our mig29s are using newer improved r73s. Su30s have mica too..


It seems highly unlikely that drdo could be able change its radio proximity fuse as it's origin is different. It wont be easy. And even if they could it wont be worth it..
Ngccm-Asraam is gonna have indigeneous laser/optical proximity fuse.
astra mk2 comes with laser proximity fuse.
It is better and accurate than RPF.
Drdo is working on it. Must have been ready.
Asraam will have the same one replacing foreign in made in india asraam.

So I don't think this is gonna be a issue.
[/QUOTE]
Why are we looking at refurbishment of the R73 missile?.
Because I believe we have an inventory numbering in a few thousands. Came across a report alluding to the quoted numbers.If you have a reliable official source to dispute the numbers,please do so.

Now,an R73 SAM version is not going to bring down an 5th generation aircraft. That might be expecting too much from it.But there are other aerial targets with higher RCS, heat signature, drones of various types etc. 4th/4.5 generation aircraft, helicopters etc.

An R73 based SAM might just work against these types of targets. It's relatively cheap.Already paid for. Why waste thousands of such missiles.

Having said that, it is also true that factors like residual life,airframe integrity, expiry date for many sensitive components etc come into play.
Replacing obsolete/outdated components is very much possible if other parameters are ok.

It's a complex decision to make. Let the Airforce technical guys and the DRDO chaps decide.

One can even explore replacing the old seeker with an AESA seeker. A better more powerful microprocessor etc.Since the original R73 was designed decades ago with an older generation electronic system, we can probably miniaturise it's Electronics and free up space for a greater explosive charge.

These are just ideas. What is actually feasible is to be seen. How much will it cost to upgrade is also important.

Personally I feel that even if it is technically feasible the cost factor will be the most important. Whether it will be value for the money invested.
 

MirageBlue

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the radio proximity fuse failed to trigger detonation.. it was old missile with old proximity fuse technology.. samar uses all old missiles whose shelf life is over , our mig29s are using newer improved r73s. Su30s have mica too..


It seems highly unlikely that drdo could be able change its radio proximity fuse as it's origin is different. It wont be easy. And even if they could it wont be worth it..
Ngccm-Asraam is gonna have indigeneous laser/optical proximity fuse.
astra mk2 comes with laser proximity fuse.
It is better and accurate than RPF.
Drdo is working on it. Must have been ready.
Asraam will have the same one replacing foreign in made in india asraam.

So I don't think this is gonna be a issue.
[/QUOTE]

They were refurbished at 7 BRD and 11 BRD before being used on SAMAR.

If DRDO is tasked to do it then they can easily do it. If they can replace the damn Mission Computer on a MiG-29K without Russian help then what is so difficult with changing the proximity fuse on a missile?
 

daya

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The failure of the R-73E fired by the Tejas Mk1 to detonate next to the Banshee target drone after having acquired the target and flown right upto it will do one good thing- it'll accelerate the likely retirement of the R-73E from the active combat fighter fleet in favor of the ASRAAM (aka NG-CCM).

There is a huge number of R-73Es in service still with the Su-30MKI, MiG-29UPG, Bison and Tejas Mk1 fleets. Bisons are anyway going to retire completely in 2025 with one squadron to go in 2024 itself. ASRAAMs are due to be built in India under a JV with MBDA. We may see a larger order for these in the near future as well as integration with the MiG-29UPG (I believe the ASRAAM has already been integrated with Su-30MKI).

These could be handed over to SAMAR batteries which will be cheap to acquire, allowing the IAF and IA to bring in huge numbers of organic, mobile Short range ADS. It is something that even Germany is doing with the IRIS-T now. In the meantime there will definitely be some sort of internal investigation to understand why the R-73E didn't detonate near the drone. If need be, DRDO may be asked to intervene and help upgrade the stocks of R-73Es.
Either proximity sensor and detonating system be examined and replaced or the whole stock be used in exercise. Just imagine the scenario if it had taken place with enemy bogey coming in ...
 
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standard snowball

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I dont' see any change between mk1 and mk1A.... at least externally. What changed?
The problem was not that the Mk 1's airframe can not do such maneuvers but that the pilots of Mk 1 did not have Onboard Oxygen Generator and some other similar things which prevented them from attempting such aggressive G maneuvers as without these equipments the strain on their bodies would be too much.
 

Azaad

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MK1 does not have features like Air to Air refuelling, Aesa Radar, Ew Suit, Longer/Larger Combat Radius.
IAF wants above 4 and 39 other— a total of 43 improvements in MK1.
These 43 improvements will be delivered in MK1A

Tejas Mk1a will have smart multi-function displays, combined interrogator and transponder, digital map generator, improved radio altimeter and “Angad” electronic warfare suite as per IAF’s wish list.

These features will enhance its performance and survivability.

The RWR will warn the pilot of incoming missiles or radar locks, and activate the Self-Protection Jammer to jam the enemy radar.
Tejas Mk1A will overcome the limitation of Tejas Mk1, which lacked a Self Protection Jammer to counter enemy missiles.
Tejas Mk1A will carry indigeneous jammer pod, which will disrupt the radar signals of BVR or SAM missiles.

DRDO's SDR replaces the Mk1's digital radios, enabling secure, high-bandwidth data communication with other aircraft, AWACS, & ground stations.This real-time information exchange is crucial for modern air combat coordination.

Tejas Mk1A will feature a revamped DFCC, which will boost its agility and computing power.

The new DFCC will use PowerPC architecture, and the Mk1A will have a press-fit mechanism for connectors, making it easier to maintain.

Some additional
mk1A Will pull 9Gs unlike mk1 which can pull 8G.
Will have abit bigger fuel tank, the empty weight is reduced, ease in maintainance, a more powerfull mission computer which was for mk2 etc etc

Tejas will be best bang for bunks personally the missiles armaments of Tejas is most impressive
Indigeneously build asram with indigeneous seeker,
R73, python 5 , iderby er , and astra mk1 ,mica
Soon astra mk2 (dual pulse) & astra mk3(meteor equivalent will be ready both are under development and have been successfully tested...
Practically all the Mk-1s will be upgraded to Mk-1a standards except the ones which came out very early from HAL lines < 2016. IIRC they'd amount to 8/40. This lot would be the first to be phased out for obvious reasons.
 

MirageBlue

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I dont' see any change between mk1 and mk1A.... at least externally. What changed?
You won't be easily able to tell them apart. The differences are subtle when it comes to externally visible ones.

New RWR sensor on the wing leading edges and the vertical stabilizer is the biggest give-away as of now. Hoping that the camo scheme will also be different than that seen on the Tejas Mk1, but in reality my hopes for that are very very low.
 

MirageBlue

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The problem was not that the Mk 1's airframe can not do such maneuvers but that the pilots of Mk 1 did not have Onboard Oxygen Generator and some other similar things which prevented them from attempting such aggressive G maneuvers as without these equipments the strain on their bodies would be too much.
What a load of rubbish!!
 

stat231

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This is not FBW, but new DFCC.
I am sorry , I dont have much knowledge in this field but wouldnt changes to DFCC mean the change in the whole fbw system. (Dont reply if it is a really dumb question)
 

MirageBlue

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I am sorry , I dont have much knowledge in this field but wouldnt changes to DFCC mean the change in the whole fbw system. (Dont reply if it is a really dumb question)
FBW system is the software that is at it's heart, a database with a set of look up tables that specify exactly how the aircraft should respond for any given input in terms of AoA (pitch), bank or side slip.

That database and it's tables would remain unchanged or if any changes are made, they'll be done to optimize it further. the new DFCC doesn't mean that any of the basic data changes. What changes is how quickly it responds to inputs from the various sensors (rudder, AoA vane, side slip vane, pitot probe, etc.) and how it feeds the information back, based on the new architecture.
 

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