LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

Anathema

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All test pilots of Tejas( many of whom are IAF Mirage 2000 pilots) rate it better than MIrage 2000 in close combat agility.
Who said this and from where did you get this ? I would be the most happiest person if factually this is correct ! All i have heard is LCA is much better in handling qualities - that is way different than WVR combat.
 

vishnugupt

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Bdw..mmrca 2....if successful..then it will take at least 4 years to deliver first jet....
Say 2024
If mk1a deal is signed this year then production in 2023....
Iaf needs Tejas desperately...as migs are ageing. .
Come on just 4 years?? It will take more than 8 years. Negotiation takes ages. Imagine if Mk1a is taking 7 years ( 2016 to 2023) then how much a fresh MMRCA 2 will take.
4 years possible only if IAF want to order 36 more rafale
 

vishnugupt

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Bdw..mmrca 2....if successful..then it will take at least 4 years to deliver first jet....
Say 2024
If mk1a deal is signed this year then production in 2023....
Iaf needs Tejas desperately...as migs are ageing. .
Come on just 4 years?? It will take more than 8 years. Negotiation takes ages. Imagine if Mk1a is taking 7 years ( 2016 to 2023) then how much a fresh MMRCA 2 will take.
4 years possible only if IAF want to order 36 more rafale
 

ersakthivel

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Who said this and from where did you get this ? I would be the most happiest person if factually this is correct ! All i have heard is LCA is much better in handling qualities - that is way different than WVR combat.
IAF Group captain Suresh krishna who flew 1000s of hours on Mirage 2000
& also Tejas test pilot
has said this,
his interview with the link is in the now locked ADA tejas thread

Tejas is a generation younger thn mirage 2000,

so it goes without saying too
 

Bleh

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wrong,

Flight envelope opening of FLY BY WIRE TECH SOFTWARE was limited to 6 Gs AT THE TIME OF IOC.

now once it reaches 8 plus Gs in FOC (after many test flights with updated software)

The IOC mk1 fighters' Fly by wire tech will also be updated with new software updates reaching 8 plus G,

The structure of both IOC & FOC fighters are the same

Even in IOC tejas the internal plumbing fr aerial refuelling wad fixed.

Now after FOC validates the fly by wire software & manouvers for aerial refuelling , thee can be ported on to IOC tejas mk1 as well.

This is normal practice in fly by wire fighters,

Same with the guns. Gun mounts can be fitted in IOC fighters once they are validated in trials.

Its not that these 20 mk1 IOC fighters will remain without gun, refuelling probe & stuck at 6G s forever

In fact spin test & departure control tests will go on even after FOC.

Maintainablity is changes to internal LRUs , which hv no effect on fighter specs,

plus all fighters produced at the cutting edge new facility will hv marginally better aerodynamics due to better fit & finish,

I dont know of any spectacular aerodynamic performance increase in mk1A,

There are many claims by HAL about reducing weight etc, nothing with concrete proof as far as I know

MK2 is an entirely different evolution level of Tejas planform,

It has nothing to do with mk1A>

Reason mk1A was put forth by Manohhar Parrikar was to maintain production line churning out tejas mk1 with class leading specs like ASEA , Astra BVR, plus many other bells & whistles asked by IAF in mk2, TO BE PORTED to mk1 airframe, till mk2 development finishes.

mk1A itself is one of the finest single engine fighters in Asian theater with



HMDS cued R73 E,

LOW RCS & 100 plus Km detection range hard to jam ASEA radar along with

ASTRA BVRM ,which is equal in capability to AIM 120 C % as tweeted by @hvtiaf,

All these capabilities can be added in in plain Tejas mk1 IOC itself (at IOC Tejas had HMDS cued R73 E, Derby, which is no slouch either)
You make a lot of claims without any source...
 

ersakthivel

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You make a lot of claims without any source...
just google a picture of HTT 40 that did spin test a couple of months before,

compare it with the picture taken after spin test,

Has the plane changed shape??

Thats what opening the flight envelope means,

tak the picture of Tejas LSP that achieved mach 1 at sea level, just after it achieved that speed,

& compare it to the picture of the same fighter taken a few months before it achieved that.

wont be any difference,

Thats what I meant
 

Bleh

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In which world are our forum members living? Tejac IOC has been cleared to 8G and test pilots have tested it to 8.5 G as per many individual reports. The AOA is now maxed at 26 degree for IOC. All IOC versions will be modified into FOC versions.
That's be good news indeed. Source please?

I read that test pilots pushed Tejas prototypes to 8g+.
just google a picture of HTT 40 that did spin test a couple of months before,

compare it with the picture taken after spin test,

Has the plane changed shape??

Thats what opening the flight envelope means,
Maybe minor ones, or internal, or shifted CG. Only IJT-36 Sitara got significantly redesigned.

I trust the knowledge of someone like @porky_kicker or @Unknowncommando 2 to take their word, but i don't know if you're credible enough... I'm seeing you for the 1st time.
 
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ersakthivel

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I trust the knowledge of someone like @porky_kicker or @Unknowncommando 2 to take their word, but i don't know if you're credible enough... I'm seeing you for the 1st time.
So in your opinion all IOC Tejas mk1s that are in coimbatore sulur base are restricted to 6G??

try asking @hvtiaf , he is HAL test pilot or Saurav jha on twitter or LCA Tejas facebook page.

get your own confirmation.

you dont hv to believe any one

sorry mate, I dont want to argue further on this topic,
 

Assassin 2.0

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We will seeing them on airforce day is it?
I WOULD LOVE TOOOOOO seee them.
But i don't know they will be featured on airforce day or not but fingers crossed. They are part of surya kiran squad probability is high to see them on airforce day
 

patriots

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Guys don't confuse.....
Ioc are cleared for 6g...which we saw in Lima
Though it is tested upto .....8.5 g(lsp jets)
And foc will be 8g(software upgradation)
Though aoa is 24
Now tested upto 26..
Again combat radius is 1750
Tested upto 2100 km

The more and more tests ..the refinement of Tejas ....
And hvtiaf says......Tejas has a roa better than jaguar..
And I have heard from multiple sources that Tejas is better than un upgraded mirage
 
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Flying Dagger

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So Flying daggers are about to land in srinagar, to meet the PAF F16s,,


Ahhh, Remeber the times ,

there were so many derisive comments about Tejas being stationed in Coimbatore proves they r inferior only

IAF is really making a big mistake in restricting the order fr Tejas mk1A to 83, which prevents HAL & its vendors from scalig up their production in time to 20 plus.

Since the present govt is more assertive in replying to PAK perfidy in Kashmir , with airpower

We can expect more defensive air action over kashmir as PAF wlll attack,since it cant lose face.

In these situations chances of Tejas claiming PAF fighter kills, while keeping its pilots safe is way better than mig21s

All test pilots of Tejas( many of whom are IAF Mirage 2000 pilots) rate it better than MIrage 2000 in close combat agility.

ANd Astra integration on Tejas is just months away, since Tejas uses the same pylon ,used by SU 30 MKI to launch Astra( which can also launch Russian BVR missiles).

SO the pace of Tejas production needs to pick up.

If mk1A certification takes time,

nothing stops IAF from ordering additional FOC Tejas mk1s, which can be upgraded later to mk1A.

Even after the shoot down of mig21 by PAF in the post balakote scramble, IAF hasnt increased orders for Tejas mk1 (FOC) is surprising to say the least
Flying daggers are landing in srinagar ? You sure about that got any link ?

Last I heard it would be mk1a that means atleast another 3-4 years.

Ohh but wait many were saying Tejas will be up against Jf 17 F 16 of PAF in 2012 2015 2016 2018 and .... Yeahh goes on. 2023-24 is the latest time line I heard which I know this time it's solid one.

Let as many pilot get trained on mk1 till that time and when HAL start churning out 3 squadrons every 2 year around from 2022-23 period we will able to deploy them directly at border to take down some junk fighters and ruhani F 16s. I think couple more squadron of mig 29 by 2020-22 we we are getting from russia will help in saying good bye to mig 21s.
 

patriots

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ANALYSIS: How LIMA deployment marked new high for India's Tejas

  • 05 APRIL, 2019
  • SOURCE: FLIGHTGLOBAL.COM
  • BY: GREG WALDRON
  • LANGKAWI


Group Captain Samrath Dhankhar of the Indian air force has earned a place in aviation history, as the commanding officer of its 45 Sqn (“The Flying Daggers”): the first to operate the Hindustan Aeronautics Tejas Mk1 fighter.

In another historical footnote, he and a fellow pilot brought two examples of the combat aircraft to the Langkawi International Maritime and Aerospace (LIMA) exhibition in Malaysia. This was the first deployment of the indigenous-developed type to Southeast Asia, and also the first time that an air force pilot had flown the type at a foreign air show.

Ostensibly the visit was made in support of Kuala Lumpur’s nascent requirement for a light combat aircraft. Yet it also underlined India’s increased confidence to show off the locally-made fighter to the world.

“We’re here to promote, but not to compete,” Dhankhar told FlightGlobal during the show. “The competition will be for the OEM to handle.”

The two jets’ journey to Langkawi from an air base near the city of Coimbatore took them northwards along the subcontinent’s east coast to another base near Kolkata. Although the optimum altitude for this transit was 33,000ft, the two-ship formation flew at 27,500ft, because separation rules at this altitude are more relaxed.

After that stop, the pair flew to Yangon in Myanmar and then onwards to Langkawi. A support aircraft flew ahead of the formation to provide logistical support and to greet the fighters on their arrival. At the show, the team found itself operating from a small tent next to the flightline. This was a big change from February’s Aero India event near Bengaluru, where the same team operated from the sprawling Yelahanka air base.

Prior to operating the Tejas, Dhankhar spent most of his career in the cockpit of the Mikoyan MiG-21 "Bison"; a heavily upgraded version of the Cold War stalwart and still a major asset in the Indian air force. He has also spent some time in the Sukhoi Su-30MKI, although he has not flown it operationally.

“The Tejas is far better in terms of manoeuvrability, as well as the systems on board,” he says. “In every sense it is better. It is clearly demarcated as a different generation.”

Showing off this manoeuvrability was the aim of Dhankhar’s display routine, which he also performed during the Aero India show. This is designed to highlight the jet’s fly-by-wire capability through key manoeuvres such as the main radius turn and negative-g turn – the latter being rarely performed.



Indian air force officer Group Captain Samrath Dhankhar

Indian air force

The Tejas Mk1 is powered by a single GE Aviation F404-IN20 engine with an afterburner. The examples operated by 45 Sqn are in the initial operational clearance (IOC) configuration. Follow-on jets will be in the final operational clearance (FOC) standard.

So far, 45 Sqn has received 12 IOC-specification aircraft, with another four to be delivered soon. Next year it will realise its full strength of 20 jets, when it receives four two-seat examples in the FOC configuration.

The main difference between the two standards is software. FOC-model aircraft will be cleared to 8g, while current IOC examples are limited to 6g. In addition, FOC aircraft will be equipped for air-to-air refuelling. Once deliveries of FOC aircraft begin, existing IOC jets will be upgraded to the enhanced configuration.

Dhankhar is clearly pleased with the Tejas. He praises its agility and says the type's g onset rates are “very comfortable”. He also believes that the type's control laws have been well implemented.

“It responds to your inputs in the entire envelope very well,” he says. “It's not as if you need to be at certain speeds to get the maximum out of it. At any speed it gives you whatever you demand.”

He also appreciates the safety factors built into the jet, in that it is impossible to depart from the approved flight envelope limits. This makes the aircraft “very, very safe,” he says. “This is a very positive thing, but at the same time this can be marginally negative because at times, if I would like to exceed the aircraft’s limits, I can't do that,” he adds.

On the aircraft’s human-machine interface, he feels that everything is exactly where a pilot will expect to find it, with an intuitive layout that eases cockpit familiarisation. Apart from the master arm switch, virtually everything necessary to operate the aircraft is located on the throttle or control column, in line with modern hands on throttle and stick design methodology.

Although Dhankhar’s aerial display, performed with white smoke trailing from wing-mounted pods, was as powerful as any modern fighter performance, he stresses that air shows are not his main line of work.



Two Tejas Mk1s deployed to Langkawi

Greg Waldron/FlightGlobal

“My primary job is to exploit the aircraft operationally. Displays as such are a side role for me. If it is required I'll do it, but otherwise the OEM does it on its own… I'm not a display specialist, but I'm capable of doing it,” he says.”

As an example of this operational focus, Dhankhar notes that he has had the opportunity to fire or drop every weapon the Tejas has been cleared to carry: both air-to-air and ground-attack munitions. He feels the accuracy is excellent, and that the HMI makes it very easy to employ all weapons across the envelope. He believes that the Tejas’s helmet-mounted cueing system, which allows the pilot to target weapons without pointing the aircraft's nose at the target, offers far greater freedom than the MiG-21, and is “much more advanced as compared with the Su-30”.

Given the advanced state of technologies such as beyond visual-range (BVR) missiles and helmet-mounted cueing, intuitively this would mean that a fighter’s manoeuvrability would become less of a priority. Dhankhar, however, says that a jet’s ability to perform aggressive manoeuvres remains a crucial consideration, because sooner or later a “merge” will occur and a pilot will find themselves in close quarters with enemy aircraft.

“There are situations where you need theg,” he says. “Most of the time you can rely on sensors and BVR weapons, and you do not need to engage in close combat. But you should not be a sitting duck in case somebody closes in for some reason. Merges do take place despite whatever type of sensors you have. There are times when the criticality of the mission is high, and you need to take certain risks. In those missions you tend to go further, and the merges take place. If you are capable in terms of pulling moreg, you may turn these situations to your advantage. That is what I feel as a fighter pilot.”



Dhankhar checks the aircraft's intake prior to performing

Indian air force

Tejas Mk1s are fitted with Elta Systems' EL/M-2032 mechanically scanned radar, with an Indian antenna platform, antenna and some subsystems, but India's future upgraded Mk1A variant will get the Israeli company's EL/M-2052 active electronically scanned array radar.

In the air-to-air mode, the Tejas has been cleared to carry Russian Vympel R-73 close combat missiles (CCM), and Rafael I-Derby beyond-visual-range air-to-air missiles. It is also equipped with a 23mm cannon.

Dhankhar says the gun has limited utility in air-to-air combat and is primarily useful for engaging soft targets that may pop up. He notes that there is no mission in which the gun is designated as the aircraft’s primary weapon.

“Most of the crosses that take place in aerial combat are through the frontal. Because it is difficult to launch weapons when somebody is head on, if you give a burst with the gun you might get one hit. Today's army guys still carry a bayonet. The gun is just like that: an aerial bayonet. Missiles have a minimum range. Less than that and the gun is the only option.”

New Delhi has approved the procurement of 73 Tejas Mk1As and 10 Tejas Mk1 trainers, plus two simulators and related infrastructure, worth $7 billion. A Tejas Mk2 is also being planned by India’s Aeronautical Development Agency. This enhancement activity will see the type’s maximum all-up weight grow to 17,500kg (38,500lb), up from 13,500kg for the baseline Tejas, and the aircraft will also be 1.35m (4.9ft) longer. The longer fuselage allows for more fuel behind the cockpit, and the Mk2 will be able to carry additional external drop tanks also.

Equipped with a more powerful GE F414-INS6 engine, the Mk2 will have improved sensors, and greater ability to carry advanced stand-off-range weapons. The input of frontline pilots such as Dhankhar will no doubt influence how this type develops.

“Because of the jet’s architecture it’s very easy to upgrade,” says Dhankhar. “Having flown this aircraft, I can say it has a great future.”
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...ima-deployment-marked-new-high-for-in-457001/


An old report...but worth reading
 

Flying Dagger

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Guys don't confuse.....
Ioc are cleared for 6g...which we saw in Lima
Though it is tested upto .....8.5 g(lsp jets)
And foc will be 8g(software upgradation)
Though aoa is 24
Now tested upto 26..
Again combat radius is 1750
Tested upto 2100 km

The more and more tests ..the refinement of Tejas ....
And hvtiaf says......Tejas has a roa better than jaguar..
And I have heard from multiple sources that Tejas is better than un upgraded mirage
Jaguar were basically trainer aircraft program converted into light strike and interceptor fighter . We use them for deep strike due to reliability of two engines and Pakistan isn't very far from our airforce bases specially those at border.

Infact Tejas will be able to cover most of the strike mission based on range. Till Astra is refined Derby ER will provide it the range advantage with ASRAAM getting in. We can be assured it's BVR capability will be superior to anything flying around our western border.

And we are upgrading Mirage for a reason. With MICA NG integration it's a2a missile range will increase significant with bigger nez.
 

IndianHawk

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Jaguar were basically trainer aircraft program converted into light strike and interceptor fighter . We use them for deep strike due to reliability of two engines and Pakistan isn't very far from our airforce bases specially those at border.

Infact Tejas will be able to cover most of the strike mission based on range. Till Astra is refined Derby ER will provide it the range advantage with ASRAAM getting in. We can be assured it's BVR capability will be superior to anything flying around our western border.

And we are upgrading Mirage for a reason. With MICA NG integration it's a2a missile range will increase significant with bigger nez.
Lca mk1a will be armed with bramhos NG . Which will give it stand off strike capabilities from 600-800km away.

Nirbhay air launched version will also come with subsonic range greater than 1000km .

Also pgm and lgb ranges will continuously improve .lca will be able to strike on most porky military targets from Indian airspace itself.

We have a very dangerous beast on our hands.

With lca mk1a mid pylon capable of carrying 1500kg weight ( Bramhos Ng) it will also be able to carry any future subsonic cruise missile which we will develop.
 

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