LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

Defcon 1

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Are IAF planners preparing their fighting doctrine according to unique Indian requirements or copy-pasting other Airforce's requirements ?
Unique Indian requirements? And you know those requirements better than IAF? Oh I see. So you are one of those who believes they know IAF's requirements better than IAF. Please tell us more about how many aircraft selection processes you have been part of. We will all benefit from your experience.

A) please tell the forum a suitable fighter aircraft which can operate from Leh airfield and also in Thar desert of Rajasthan ? Remember MMRCA trials ? 4 of the 6 contenders failed the trials at Leh whereas LCA cleared the Leh trials with ease.
And all 4 of them were rejected. Rafale passed the cold start test and it was finally selected. So you are actually supporting IAF's selection process here. Finally showing some brains.

None of the contenders in MMRCA could churn out 6 sorties per day
Dude do one thing. Prove this claim. Surge sortie rates of all european fighters are not in public domain so no way you could have gotten this information.

Rather, IAF choose not to stand by HF-24 MARUT and allowed to kill the first indigenous Indian fighter aircraft.
Marut? Sign of moral bankruptcy being shown finally by you. Everyone knows that Marut failed because MOD failed to import a proper engine for the jet. The intended supersonic fighter was never able to breach the sound barrier. But you are like those morons who will ignore all the facts and still to their claim that IAF sabotaged it. Keep going, no one can stop you.

As we are witnessing this year, once CDS assumes charge and Tri-Service integration starts which will eventually lead to Theatre Commands, IAF will definitely loose it's primacy. That is what the Chair-Marshalls were scared off and the reason for their objection for creation of CDS.
Ok, as you say. We bow before your wisdom.
For interested readers, reasons for IAF's objection to theater commands are also in public domain. People can read them. Basically IAF has said that the amount of equipment needed for theater commands is much greater. So IAF would need much more number of transport, AWACS and refuellers to operate theater commands properly.

EDIT: Since this question needs answering
Pray tell ignorant me some of such programs instead of rhetoric.
IAF ordered 20 IOC LCA Mk1 in 2005, which got delivered only in 2019, 14 years later. IAF ordered 20 more FOC LCA Mk1 in 2010, first of which is yet to be delivered 9 years later. Imagine Dassault taking 14 years to deliver Rafale? Would it had been acceptable? No, LCA was given special treatment precisely because it is Indian. The Dhruv program was initiated by IAF and IN. IAF ordered thousands of crores worth of Netra and Akash missiles, despite the fact that both these projects were delayed by years and Akash's capabilities are actually comparable to 30 year old missiles instead of modern ones. The fact is, whatever has been developed, has been ordered.
 
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Defcon 1

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Just name one aircraft in IAF inventory which confirms to ASQR insisted for LCA.
Dude why are trying to change the topic so desperately? I only mentioned that LCA requirements were changed after the project encountered delays. Don't understand why are you conveniently ignoring the delays?

Please read before preaching.

Jaguar Induction in IAF:
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/india/shamsher.htm

MiG 29 induction in IAF:
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/india/baaz.htm

Sent from my ASUS_X00TD using Tapatalk
Again, you lied when you claimed that IAF insisted on all trials before FOC for LCA. I called your lie out and mentioned that IAF gave FOC to LCA without gun trials. Now why are you posting links about Jaguar and Mig29? What does it have to do with the fact that IAF did allow FOC to LCA without gun trials?
 

mayfair

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42 -45 million around we were expecting that 65 million ( correct me If I am wrong ) what HAL was expecting is day light robbery . They do understand a more capable twin engine mig 35 with AESA can be bought for around 50-55 million.
AESA abilities not proven yet, TVC now discarded, Russia itself showing no interest to induct this plane. The less said about the RD-33(K) engines, the better.

Mig 35 is a plane that exists only on paper and that too is not worth it.

Roosis hoped that India would fund the maturation and development of this cuckoo project much like we did with Flanker MKI and Mig 29K (they wanted the same with Su 57).
 

IndianHawk

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AESA abilities not proven yet, TVC now discarded, Russia itself showing no interest to induct this plane. The less said about the RD-33(K) engines, the better.

Mig 35 is a plane that exists only on paper and that too is not worth it.

Roosis hoped that India would fund the maturation and development of this cuckoo project much like we did with Flanker MKI and Mig 29K (they wanted the same with Su 57).
Exactly. Also ruski method is to offer cheap plane and then loot the customer with maintain issues , costly delayed spares etc.

Lca has far more reliable/ efficient engine and mk1a will have better electronics and avionics matching western standards .
 

Flying Dagger

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AESA abilities not proven yet, TVC now discarded, Russia itself showing no interest to induct this plane. The less said about the RD-33(K) engines, the better.

Mig 35 is a plane that exists only on paper and that too is not worth it.

Roosis hoped that India would fund the maturation and development of this cuckoo project much like we did with Flanker MKI and Mig 29K (they wanted the same with Su 57).
That's why I put the cost at around 55 million else they are available cheaper minus the bang. Mig 35 doesn't exist on just paper but is flying . Infact it is mk1a and mk2 which are paper tiger right now. Egypt is already onboard mig35.

Russia does need money to keep its project affloat doesn't mean that mig 35 is a cuckoo project. It's AESA will mature over time Russians will get that right. If a country is willing to pour money they can add all the bang like TVC etc.

Not to forget we are probably getting 21 - 34 refurbished Mig 29 UPG which IAF regard as best interceptor and dogfighter they got right now. RD 33k engine performance is also appreciated along with lesser turnaround time and maintenance for Mig 29 UPG . Mig 35 is an improvement over it with lesser operational cost too.
 

Flying Dagger

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Exactly. Also ruski method is to offer cheap plane and then loot the customer with maintain issues , costly delayed spares etc.

Lca has far more reliable/ efficient engine and mk1a will have better electronics and avionics matching western standards .
That happened due to disintegration of USSR you can check the availability rate of Mig 29 UPG and the cost of upgrade too that Russians charged and compare it with what western platform upgrade cost us.

It is Mig 29k of IN which are facing issues of maintenance as Russia specifically brought naval version of them for Vik. They inducted them too for Russian Navy I think.

Who doesn't loot the customer anyway... What do you think French did with Mirage upgrade or High cost of their equipments?
 

ersakthivel

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Unique Indian requirements? And you know those requirements better than IAF? Oh I see. So you are one of those who believes they know IAF's requirements better than IAF. Please tell us more about how many aircraft selection processes you have been part of. We will all benefit from your experience.


And all 4 of them were rejected. Rafale passed the cold start test and it was finally selected. So you are actually supporting IAF's selection process here. Finally showing some brains.


Dude do one thing. Prove this claim. Surge sortie rates of all european fighters are not in public domain so no way you could have gotten this information.


Marut? Sign of moral bankruptcy being shown finally by you. Everyone knows that Marut failed because MOD failed to import a proper engine for the jet. The intended supersonic fighter was never able to breach the sound barrier. But you are like those morons who will ignore all the facts and still to their claim that IAF sabotaged it. Keep going, no one can stop you.


Ok, as you say. We bow before your wisdom.
For interested readers, reasons for IAF's objection to theater commands are also in public domain. People can read them. Basically IAF has said that the amount of equipment needed for theater commands is much greater. So IAF would need much more number of transport, AWACS and refuellers to operate theater commands properly.

EDIT: Since this question needs answering

IAF ordered 20 IOC LCA Mk1 in 2005, which got delivered only in 2019, 14 years later. IAF ordered 20 more FOC LCA Mk1 in 2010, first of which is yet to be delivered 9 years later. Imagine Dassault taking 14 years to deliver Rafale? Would it had been acceptable? No, LCA was given special treatment precisely because it is Indian. The Dhruv program was initiated by IAF and IN. IAF ordered thousands of crores worth of Netra and Akash missiles, despite the fact that both these projects were delayed by years and Akash's capabilities are actually comparable to 30 year old missiles instead of modern ones. The fact is, whatever has been developed, has been ordered.
IAF top brass before manohar parrikar became defence minister did everything in their capacity to finish off tejas., Intentionally or unintentionally is something debatable.

By the end of FSED phase2 itself, Tejas qualified R73 E, with HMDS cueing.

IAF could hv asked ADA to qualify derby, & inducted it straight away, as a pure air to air interceptor

replacing those 100s of obsolete mig21s, rather than insisting on finishing the whole gamut of air to ground roles in totality,

Instead retired chair marshals of IAF were bluffing all kind of stupid stuff on tejas ,

like mig21++ ,
three legged cheetah,
Late Combat Aircraft,
Last chance aircraft, in cohort with import lobby dalals, who double up as defence journos & mil aviation experts in India,


Point to note is these senile gents hv never stepped inside the cockpit of a proper 4.5th gen fly by wire, RSS fighter.

Never managed a lawn mower project in their life,

Never understood the fact that the phased of validating of & Fly by wire software is a time consuming process.

All IAF test pilots who ran the decade long flight testing , consistently rated teja mk1, above mirage in all aspects of close combat agility.

They knew well top speed at service ceiling is an irrelevant concept (ever heard a single french air force gent discrediting rafale because it had lower top speed than mirage2000?)

Test pilots knew even mirage didn't hv the deadly HMDS-R73E CCM & Derby combo.

No serving IAF chief ever contradicted these senile chair marshals in pubic.

Never supported the project by ordering 60 pure air to air tejas versions to replace obsolete migs.

Infact they were all playing with India's defence preparedness & life of young IAF pilots ,


by continuing to let mig21 fly, even after a proven much better tejas has arrived.

Their tom foolery was exposed by PAF retaliatory action after balakot.

If Abhinandhan's capture clips were not on social media,

he wowld hv met the same fate of Capt Saurav Khalia

It was these clips & strong resolve of the modi govt to hit back if he was not released, which secured his release.


Just think if better sense prevailed in 2010, & if IAF had ordered 60 tejasaste pure air to air tejas in 2010 itself aka mk1A type SOP,

PAF would hv eaten humble pea on Operation Swift Retort.Tejas would hv done way better than the migs ,

with its class leading ITR &modern counter measures , it would hv given a much better account of the talent of IAF pilots.

But IAF top brass had other plans,

They kept dreaming on the bank breaking 160 odd MRCA, which they knew no govt had the money to buy,

KEPT changing the goal post fr ADA, delaying tejas induciion,

& Led IAF to a pathetic situation, where half their fleet is flying fossils.

They didn't even get su 30MKI & MIG 29 TO Srinagar base to counter PAF Swift retort, sent Abhi on mig 21,

couldn't establish proper procedure that could hv saved the life of the Mi 17 crew that day.

A miserable failure of leadership.

In any other country a few top officers of air force would hv been sent home by now.


Ok. Past is past.

Cut to the present,

Instead of spending an year over mk1A price,

why they haven't given additional 40 odd tejas mk1 FOC orders.

Don't they know mil aviation is not a road side fast food stall ,

where you can get 5 plates of pizza & 4 plates of burger within half an hour?

Why fool the nation, by claiming we ordered 20 tejas ten years before, but it hasn't been delivered ten years later,etc.

Aircraft production line needs continuous orders fr stabilized production & financial feasibility,

Which set of tier1, tier 2 vendors will keep twiddling their thumbs after setting up a ten fighter per year production capacity ,

& wait fr eons , so that IAF stops writing their endless list of new items to be added to FOC?

Didn't IAF TOP brass knew that 100 S of F35 S are flying in USAF without even IOC?

Didn't they know the gripen A,B, C,D,E route & rafale F1,2,3,4 route of development?
 
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patriots

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IAF top brass before manohar parrikar became defence minister did everything in their capacity to finish off tejas., Intentionally or intentionally is something debatable.

By the finishing of FSED phase2 itself, Tejas qualified R73 E, with HMDS cueing.

IAF could hv asked ADA to qualify derby, & inducted it straight away,

replacing those 100s of obsolete mig21s, as a pure air to air interceptor.

Instead retired chair marshals of IAF were bluffing all kind of stupid stuff on tejas ,

like mig21++ ,
three legged cheetah,
Late Combat Aircraft,
Etc.

Point to note is these senile gents hv never stepped inside the cockpit of a proper 4.5th gen fly by wire, RSS fighter.

Never managed a lawn mower project in their life,

Never understood the fact that the phased of validating of & Fly by wire software is a time consuming process.

All IAF test pilots who ran the decade long flight testing , consistently rated teja mk1, above mirage in all aspects of close combat agility.

They knew well top speed at service ceiling is an irrelevant concept (ever heard a single french sir force gent discrediting rafael, because it had lower top speed than mirage?)

Test pilots knew even mirage didn't hv the delayed HMDS-R73E CCM & Derby combo.

No serving IAF chief ever contradicted these senile chair marshals in pubic. Never supported the project by ordering 60 pure air to air tejas versions to replace obsolete migs.

Infact they were all playing with India's defence preparedness & life of young IAF pilots , by continuing to let mig21 fly, even after a proven much better tejas has arrived.

Their tom foolery was exposed by PAF retaliatory action after balakot. If Abhinandhan's clip'' were not on social media, he woyld hv met the same fate of Capt Saurav KhaliaKh

It was these clips & stromgsresolve of the modi govt to hit back if he was not released, which secured his release.


Just think if better sense prevailed in 2010, & if IAF had ordered 60 ood ofthese pure air to air tejas in 2010 itself aka mk1A type SOP,

PAF would hv eaten humble pea on Operation Swift Retort.Tejas would hv done way better than the migs , with its class leading ITR &modern counter measures , it would hv given auch better account of the talenrtof IAF pilots.

But IAF top brass had other plans,

They kept dreaming on the bank breaking 160 odd MRCA,w which they knew no govt had the money to buy,

KEPT changing the goal post fr ADA, delaying tejas induciion,

& Led IAF to a pathetic situation, where half their fleet is flying fossils.

They didn't even get su 30MKI & MIG 29 TO Srinagar base to counter PAF Swift retort, sent Abhi on mig 21,

couldn't establish proper procedure that could hv saved the life of the Mi 17 crew that day.

A miserable failure of leadership.

In any other country a few top officers of air force would hv sent home by now.


Ok. Past is past.

Cut to the present,

Instead of spending an year over mk1A price, why they hvnt additional 40 odd tejas mk1 FOC orders.

Don't they know mil aviation is not a road side fast food stall , where you can get 5 plates of pizza & 4 plates of burger within half an hour?

Why fool the nation, by claiming we ordered 20 tejas tem years befireb & it hasn't been felideliv tem years later,etc.

Aircraft production line needs continuous orders fr stabilize D production & financial feasibility,

Which set of tier1, tier 2 vendors will keep twiddling their thumbs after setting up a ten fighter per year production capacity ,

& wait fr eons , so that IAF stops wriring their endless list of new items to be added to FOC?

Didn't IAF TOP brass knew that 100 S of F35 S are flying in USAF without even IOC?

Didn't they know the gripen A,B, C,D,E route & rafalwrF1,2,3,4 route of development?
Ya.....400+ j10
Are flying...j10a...j10b...j10c.....
100s of jf17....
Jf17 block 1 block 2
50s of block 1 don't have ifr.....
Jf17 block 3 will have hmd...3 axis fbw...
Which Tejas ioc has
 

ersakthivel

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Ya.....400+ j10
Are flying...j10a...j10b...j10c.....
100s of jf17....
Jf17 block 1 block 2
50s of block 1 don't have ifr.....
Jf17 block 3 will have hmd...3 axis fbw...
Which Tejas ioc has
Just take a look at arms displayed at the 70th anniversary parade a few days back in china

Were all these weapons more sophisticated than their Western peers,

Did PLA folks kept adding demands, thereby delaying their insuctions by eons like IAF did on tejas?

Other than mannohar Parrikar , no defence minister can see through these game played by IAF, by having endless demands , with no mk1, mk2 route.

After he died, still IAF couldn't bring itself around to order just 40 odd tejas FOC MK1s, to compensate fr the delays in price negotiation of mk1A
 

Chanakya 002

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Political myopia
Historically, all major aerospace powers have possessed the capability to design airframes as well as power-plants. Until India can design and produce its own aero-engines, the performance and capabilities of any indigenously designed/built aircraft will be seriously limited by the technology that we are permitted to import. India has already had two bitter experiences in this regard. The Hindustan Aeronautics Limited’s sleek and elegant HF-24 Marut fighter, of the 1960s and 1970s, failed to achieve its huge potential as a supersonic fighter for want of a suitable engine. Rather than exert itself to seek alternatives, the government of the day, with stunning myopia, closed the programme.

Similarly, many of the problems the Tejas faced emanate from lack of engine thrust. Even as the Kaveri has failed to make an appearance, U.S.-made alternatives such as the General Electric F-404 engine, or even the more powerful F-414, do not deliver adequate thrust for the Tejas Mk 1, to meet all its missions. For the Tejas Mk IA, Mk II, the LCA Navy, and other aircraft programmes such as the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft, India will need turbo-jet engines of even greater thrust. Thus, it is vital for India to develop a family of homegrown jet engines to power indigenous combat aircraft as well as re-engine imported ones.

A pivotal role
In this context, it is necessary to recognise that both the Tejas and Kaveri projects — which have seen more than their share of headwinds and uncertainty — form key components of India’s technological aspirations. Unless carefully guided, protected and nurtured, their failure could spell the end of India’s aeronautical industry, or condemn it forever to licensed production. A long production run of, say, 250-300 aircraft for the Tejas and its advanced derivatives is essential if the industry is to hone its design and production skills.

The same holds good for the Kaveri, except that the design and production of a functional turbojet engine are even more challenging. The HAL claims to have “manufactured” nearly 5,000 aero-engines of British, French and Russian design, and overhauled 18,000 of them. Since this putative “manufacturing” process involves merely the assembly of imported components, several engine divisions of the HAL have failed to imbibe aspects of design, metallurgy, thermodynamic and aerodynamic engineering as well as the complex tooling and machining process required for the design and manufacture of aero-engines, over the past 60 years — a sad commentary. In 1986, the DRDO’s decades-old Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) was tasked with developing an indigenous power plant for the LCA, which was to replace the U.S. engines being used for the development phase of the aircraft.

Having developed two experimental engines, the GTRE took up a turbofan design, designated the GTX-35VS “Kaveri”, for the LCA. Full-scale development was authorised in 1989 for 17 prototypes at a cost of $55 million. The first complete prototype Kaveri began tests in 1996, and by 2004 it had flown on a Russian flying test-bed; albeit unsuccessfully. Since then, the Kaveri has made sporadic progress and the GTRE has been struggling with serious design and performance issues which it has been unable to resolve. As the Kaveri missed successive deadlines, the U.S. import option was mindlessly and gleefully resorted to.

A series of troughs
Given the DRDO’s penchant for secrecy and misplaced optimism, the true story of the Kaveri’s halting progress has never been revealed to Parliament or the taxpayer. However, two details, available on the Internet, are revelatory of the organisation’s ‘modus operandi’. It has, at least, on two occasions, approached French and British aero-engine manufacturers for advice and consultancy in operationalising the Kaveri. Despite reportedly attractive offers of performance-enhancement and technology-transfer, the negotiations stalled reportedly on cost considerations. It is also interesting to note that in 2014, this project — of national importance — was arbitrarily shut down by the DRDO only to be revived subsequently for reasons unknown.

It is obvious that the onus for repeated setbacks in these projects must lie squarely on India’s political leadership; for its neglect as well as absence of a vision for the aeronautical industry. There are three more factors: over-estimation by the DRDO of its capabilities compounded by a reluctance to seek advice; inadequate project management and decision-making skills of its scientists; and exclusion of users — the military — from all aspects of the projects.

It is still not too late for the government to declare both these projects as ‘national missions’ and initiate urgent remedial actions. The success of both the Kaveri and Tejas programmes will transform the aerospace scene, and put India in the front ranks of aeronautical nations, perhaps even ahead of China, if the desired degree of resolve and professional rigour can be brought to the fore. If we miss this opportunity, we will remain abjectly import-dependent forever in this vital area
 

porky_kicker

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IAF top brass before manohar parrikar became defence minister did everything in their capacity to finish off tejas., Intentionally or unintentionally is something debatable.

By the end of FSED phase2 itself, Tejas qualified R73 E, with HMDS cueing.

IAF could hv asked ADA to qualify derby, & inducted it straight away, as a pure air to air interceptor

replacing those 100s of obsolete mig21s, rather than insisting on finishing the whole gamut of air to ground roles in totality,

Instead retired chair marshals of IAF were bluffing all kind of stupid stuff on tejas ,

like mig21++ ,
three legged cheetah,
Late Combat Aircraft,
Last chance aircraft, in cohort with import lobby dalals, who double up as defence journos & mil aviation experts in India,


Point to note is these senile gents hv never stepped inside the cockpit of a proper 4.5th gen fly by wire, RSS fighter.

Never managed a lawn mower project in their life,

Never understood the fact that the phased of validating of & Fly by wire software is a time consuming process.

All IAF test pilots who ran the decade long flight testing , consistently rated teja mk1, above mirage in all aspects of close combat agility.

They knew well top speed at service ceiling is an irrelevant concept (ever heard a single french air force gent discrediting rafale because it had lower top speed than mirage2000?)

Test pilots knew even mirage didn't hv the deadly HMDS-R73E CCM & Derby combo.

No serving IAF chief ever contradicted these senile chair marshals in pubic.

Never supported the project by ordering 60 pure air to air tejas versions to replace obsolete migs.

Infact they were all playing with India's defence preparedness & life of young IAF pilots ,


by continuing to let mig21 fly, even after a proven much better tejas has arrived.

Their tom foolery was exposed by PAF retaliatory action after balakot.

If Abhinandhan's capture clips were not on social media,

he wowld hv met the same fate of Capt Saurav Khalia

It was these clips & strong resolve of the modi govt to hit back if he was not released, which secured his release.


Just think if better sense prevailed in 2010, & if IAF had ordered 60 tejasaste pure air to air tejas in 2010 itself aka mk1A type SOP,

PAF would hv eaten humble pea on Operation Swift Retort.Tejas would hv done way better than the migs ,

with its class leading ITR &modern counter measures , it would hv given a much better account of the talent of IAF pilots.

But IAF top brass had other plans,

They kept dreaming on the bank breaking 160 odd MRCA, which they knew no govt had the money to buy,

KEPT changing the goal post fr ADA, delaying tejas induciion,

& Led IAF to a pathetic situation, where half their fleet is flying fossils.

They didn't even get su 30MKI & MIG 29 TO Srinagar base to counter PAF Swift retort, sent Abhi on mig 21,

couldn't establish proper procedure that could hv saved the life of the Mi 17 crew that day.

A miserable failure of leadership.

In any other country a few top officers of air force would hv been sent home by now.


Ok. Past is past.

Cut to the present,

Instead of spending an year over mk1A price,

why they haven't given additional 40 odd tejas mk1 FOC orders.

Don't they know mil aviation is not a road side fast food stall ,

where you can get 5 plates of pizza & 4 plates of burger within half an hour?

Why fool the nation, by claiming we ordered 20 tejas ten years before, but it hasn't been delivered ten years later,etc.

Aircraft production line needs continuous orders fr stabilized production & financial feasibility,

Which set of tier1, tier 2 vendors will keep twiddling their thumbs after setting up a ten fighter per year production capacity ,

& wait fr eons , so that IAF stops writing their endless list of new items to be added to FOC?

Didn't IAF TOP brass knew that 100 S of F35 S are flying in USAF without even IOC?

Didn't they know the gripen A,B, C,D,E route & rafale F1,2,3,4 route of development?
I agree with you........................
 

HariPrasad-1

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I think canopy re-shaping will also happen. Along with other small changes. Also, any info regarding the re-design of the landing gear for weight reduction ?
Canopy redesign is going to happen. It will allow aerodynamic improvement and also allow Tejas to do high speed looping in 20 seconds i.e 18* per second STR. So far as landing gear is concern, what I have read is (Do not ensure authenticity) that there will be no redesign but there will be some change in Metallurgy to reduce some weight.

Actually, as initial studies had revealed. Landing gear were supposed to be stretched out of main fuselage to the border of fuselage like Gripen. There is no update since then.
 

Lancer

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Even HAL is now days improving alot by bringing private sector in
In a major boost to the Indian private defence industry, the state-run Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has outsourced significant works on the light combat aircraft (LCA) Tejas Mark 1A to companies like Larsen and Toubro, Dynamatic Technologies and Alpha Designs.
I'm firmly pro-Tejas, but let's not go overboard and start defending the tragicomic clusterfuck that is HAL. And let's be clear, the initiative for greater private sector involvement was likely the Gvt's, and even that must have been forced down HAL's throat - otherwise they would never acquiesce to it. For a group that is stunningly mediocre, at best, at doing its job, they're still fiercely arrogant and territorial.

If HAL had been kept out of this from the beginning, or steadily been edged out; I guarantee the Tejas (and by that I mean actual FOC status at MK2 level, not the various delayed face saving IOC's or the current compromise MK1's and 1A's) would have been rolled out years ago, at a fraction of the cost, and would currently be in mass production at much higher numbers + quality but lower cost.

I also used to put model planes together from kits w/ pre built pieces when I was a kid; I suppose I was a systems integrator as well. Only difference was, my planes didn't suffer from pathetic quality & workmanship, cheap parts and routinely fall apart.

Between HAL, ignorant & arrogant babus who don't have the faintest fucking clue about defense, and corrupt bloodsucking netas who know nothing except making money (even if its made by selling out the forces) - our own people have likely racked up more "kills" on IAF fighter pilots than Pakis.
 

porky_kicker

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Nirbhay is not coming on Tejas mk1 . Mk2 may be if they reduce the weight as you said I haven't read about that though . It weigh over 1500 kg and plan is to integrate it with Sukhoi first .

As far as Brahmos NG pic is concerned it's been around for long let it get tested first and then integrated but it's going to take some time.

And yes everyone have seen the pic they even showed it at LIMA in similar mock up.

Uttam AESA may come in mk2 . So These are probably planned for mk2 version which does make sense.
How come you are so certain that Nirbhay won't come to LCA ?

Air launched nirbhay weight and features will be same as land / sea launcher nirbhay ?

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If a uber expensive brahmos Ng is planned for LCA , do you seriously think that a low cost stand off high subsonic air launched Nirbhay will be missing from LCA future inventory ?

That's the beauty of domestically developed weapon systems , you can scale it up or down to suit your platforms and your needs
 
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ersakthivel

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I'm firmly pro-Tejas, but let's not go overboard and start defending the tragicomic clusterfuck that is HAL. And let's be clear, the initiative for greater private sector involvement was likely the Gvt's, and even that must have been forced down HAL's throat - otherwise they would never acquiesce to it. For a group that is stunningly mediocre, at best, at doing its job, they're still fiercely arrogant and territorial.

If HAL had been kept out of this from the beginning, or steadily been edged out; I guarantee the Tejas (and by that I mean actual FOC status at MK2 level, not the various delayed face saving IOC's or the current compromise MK1's and 1A's) would have been rolled out years ago, at a fraction of the cost, and would currently be in mass production at much higher numbers + quality but lower cost.

I also used to put model planes together from kits w/ pre built pieces when I was a kid; I suppose I was a systems integrator as well. Only difference was, my planes didn't suffer from pathetic quality & workmanship, cheap parts and routinely fall apart.

Between HAL, ignorant & arrogant babus who don't have the faintest fucking clue about defense, and corrupt bloodsucking netas who know nothing except making money (even if its made by selling out the forces) - our own people have likely racked up more "kills" on IAF fighter pilots than Pakis.[/QUOTE
Tejas FOC MK2 is the equivalent of Gripen E.

Can we also accuse SAAB of stupid project management, that has led to " HUGE DELAY" on its part,

Which delayed the induction of Gripen E to Swedish airforce?

HAL projects like HTT 40, etc were all poorly managed is a fact known to all.

The reason is all the design talent if HAL was stripped off to form ADA in the 80s.

So you cant expect expect rocket science from HAL.

And indian pvt sector couldn't give completion to Maruti's Alto, till a couple of years back.

Too much to expect them to spend billions in R&D fruitfully to develop something as cutting edge as tejas.




It was the stubborn resistance of IAF to ADA-HAL proposal of asking fr funds frm govt to set up a dedicated production line to develop tejas PVs ,that sealed the fate of the project,long with US sanctions after N test.

This led Abdul kalam mediating & getting sanction for torturously long development rout of ,Two TDs, and more PVs , LSPs



from HAL's dinosaur era jaguar production line ,
at a galactic phase as a hobby horse.

Because HAL had no financial stakes & an engineering contractor only,
So why do you expect them to channel funds, infra & man power to develop a complex, green field cutting edge tejas, which has no end in sight?

Now all that is past.

Question is why IAF can't order 40 odd FOC Tejas mk1s, without waiting fr mk1 A completion.

Because more orders give financial feasibility that will spur HAL to bolster production capacity, & faster delivery
 
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Chanakya 002

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Really badly managed project was HJT 36 sitara.
The development of every indigenous systems by Defense Research and Development Organization (DRDO) has been delayed, which should not come as much of a surprise given the history of DRDO’s tendency to over-promise and under-deliver.
 

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