LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

ersakthivel

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These would be Mark1A, those were IOC Mark1.
mk1A doesnt require deep structural changes , mk1s can be upgraded to mk1A.

basing these Tejas mk1s in srinagar with Astra combo will be the best detterent agaibst PAF,
especially they hv far lower RCS than any PAF plane they will encounter in air to air mode,

& far higher endurance & Instantaneous turning radius , plus Sustained turn radius than mig21 & mirage 2000s ,
 

Assassin 2.0

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Guy's please stop this tejas bashing I'm fed up from that. Everything is not perfect when you start doing something new.

Haters can Suck up anything. Our enemy don't have F-22 we don't have any capability for now to create a jet like that so we should focus and develop and promote what we have. And we should be proud of that.
 

uoftotaku

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Guy's please stop this tejas bashing I'm fed up from that. Everything is not perfect when you start doing something new.

Haters can Suck up anything. Our enemy don't have F-22 we don't have any capability for now to create a jet like that so we should focus and develop and promote what we have. And we should be proud of that.
I think most of it is actually HAL bashing which turns into Tejas bashing.
 

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I think most of it is actually HAL bashing which turns into Tejas bashing.
Foreign import lobbying is losing BILLION $ business as indigenous systems are growing.
There are many people like vivek dallal and from many other dallals which constantly write nonsense about our jet.
Many people used to earn millions from this weapon trade. But modi government is fully focused on make in india. That's why we hear lots of negative articles and bullshit about tejas
With asea radar i-derby astra combo a fantastic fuel efficient engine with cheap flying cost makes her a cuteee bomb.

Even HAL is now days improving alot by bringing private sector in
In a major boost to the Indian private defence industry, the state-run Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has outsourced significant works on the light combat aircraft (LCA) Tejas Mark 1A to companies like Larsen and Toubro, Dynamatic Technologies and Alpha Designs.

The development indicates that HAL will now be more of a systems integrator, with private companies playing a major role in the manufacturing of fighter aircraft and other aviation assets, including helicopters.

Tejas 70-75% funds stay in india.

But make in india Haters can only spit shit.
Supply burnol to them as there will be minimum 114 tejas in airforce.
 

ersakthivel

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The IAF apathy on Tejas front is telling,

They are not watering the eco system that delivered so much,

despite the tortorous route forced on by ADA by the powers that be,

BY giving 40 odd extra tejas mk1FOC order, they are strengthening the will of the govt that is ready to call PAK's bluff on terrorism,

Instead I see the sad plight of retired IAF big guns like Manmohan Bahadur pouring cold water on Tejas mk2 production time lie,

ANd assorted defence "EGGspurts" calling on GOI to abandon tejas mk2 development effort & concentrate on Stealth AMCA

Here is the countering the the spurious narrative being built up fr scrapping TejasMK2

& buying 100 odd foreign fighters in their place,,

which r a generation behind in RSS fly by wire aerodynamic planform

Or Gripen NG which is same as TejasMK2 , but costly.

comparing the delayed timelines of Tejas_LCA mk1 ,

which had zero infra,

No ready LRU ,

IAF apathy,

FSED ph-2 delay,

Trickle funding,

US Sanctions delay,

US confiscating software equipments after pokhran test sanctions,

forcing redevelopment of RSS fly by ware frm scratch?

.pitiful dribble of funding by devil may care govts


No ready fly by wire tech fr Relaxed Static Stability fighter,(takes decades to master) To Tejas_LCA mk2 is unfair TejasMK2

Due to differences of opinion btn IAF,

MOD, ADA, Tejas_LCA mk1 followed the tortured ,

Tech development TD (just to prove flight) to Prototype PV, to limited series production LSP model,

IAF specified R73e only in 2008 or so leading to long FSED Phase2 of wing redesigning,


TejasMK2 is the much needed insurance against delays in StealthAMCA,

greenfield Tejas Mk1 Took tedious TD - PV-LSP route ,

needing 20 yrs fr FOC .

Tejas_LCA Mk2 -direct Limited Series Production from 1st fighter, fr quick FOC .

Fly by wire CLWAS, , Composites already mastered,

Since Tejas mk2 has ready availability of Tejas_LCA mk1's completed fly by wire control laws effort,

ADA is going fr direct production of TejasMK2 , no tech demos(TD), no PVs(prototype vehicles).

Since wing loading is the same fr both mk1&mk2, Mk2 can be developed very fast.


TejasMk2A 's low wing loading (world's lowest)design was custom built fr high altitude himalayan theatre,

with load ( Leh,other rough air fields) , which no other foreign single engine fighter design has.

Tejas_LCA mk1 spent decade mastering,

EW suit,

software defined radios,

SPJ, IRST, BVR,

ASEA radar integration,

HMDS cued off bore sight WVR missile capabilities,

all glass cockpit.

Now All of these are readily available TejasMK2 effort,

Considerably cutting down yrs needed fr FOC

What is , "entirely" new abt Tejas_MK2?,

Which won't substantially draw on , #Tejas mk1's,Composites,

Control laws of RSS fly by wire airframe,

tier 2 vendors, System integration experience frm integrating mission computer,

HMDS cued WVR DRFM equipped ASEA jamner

Air to air refuelling,

Astra, Derby , R73E, litening,

SPJ integration, Quartz radome,

SFDR, stores release simulation,

Cold start with decent loads fr a light fighter frm Leh?

CFD studies,

Cockpit ergonomics,

MFDs, Margin fr relaxed static stability, especially ,

when TejasMK2 has the same wing loading as tejas mk1.

Tejas mk2 has a world class new tech assembly line fr precise,

faster LSP production, Unlike mk1A which was cobbled together in obsolete jaguar production line.

All these long delays won't be there fr #TejasMK2

bcos weapon fit specs, proven tech are Already on the table.

Evolutionary designs don't need experimental airframes aka prototypes.

They go straight to LSP bcoz of lesser unknowns involved.

JAS-39E/F & F/A-18SH programs are examples. SAAB Test flighted systems individually on JAS-39D

before jumping straight to production standard JAS-39E.


SO by increasing tejas mk1 FOC orders by two more squadrons , IAF is bolstering their retaliation muscle against PAF perfidy.
 

ersakthivel

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mk1A doesnt require deep structural changes , mk1s can be upgraded to mk1A.

basing these Tejas mk1s in srinagar with Astra combo will be the best detterent agaibst PAF,
especially they hv far lower RCS than any PAF plane they will encounter in air to air mode,

& far higher endurance & Instantaneous turning radius , plus Sustained turn radius than mig21 & mirage 2000s ,
sorry tejas mk1 ill hv higher endurance than mig21 & a bit lower endurance than mirage 2000

But it will be more lethal due to its robust all digital fly by wire tech fr RSS airframe, which allows it to excel in dive , climb mountain mode flights in kashmir. There is no better fighter in IAF, that is a perfect fit for this role.

because kashmir is a high altitude, craggy valley-mountain air space,

tailor made for the flight profile of Tejas,

All the higher Sustained turn rates of high wing loading fighters like F16 can be pulled only at sea level flight, mostly tree top level flight..
in high altitude its the low wing loading , RSS fly by wire deltas that traditionally excel.
 
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ersakthivel

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Let me make this prediction. I see more Tejas Mk1As beyond the 83 currently projected joining the Air Force in the 2020s. Perhaps, it may even end up being called Mk1B or C.</p>&mdash; Saurav Jha (@SJha1618) <a href="">October 4, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 

ersakthivel

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You simply do not understand enough
1. No airforce today wants light fighters. There is a not a single 5th gen light fighter program in the world today
2. This has been proposed many times by many people. Both IAF and IA should have their own design bureau. Guess we will have to wait for this reform.
3. IAF has supported indigenous programs enough. Its your fault if you cannot understand it and come out of your biases.

Sure, shut down IAF. One of the most stupid things I have ever read on this forum
mistaken sir,

Tejas mk2 or mk1 can easily be evolved into stealth UCAV projects,


tejas is no light fighter,

Its fuel fraction is almost the same as mirage 2000,

Recent comments by IAF pilots, saying "They wer surprised by the range & endurance offered by Tejas's fuel sipping GE 404 engine" is a proof for that

@hvtiaf has said that tejas mk1 can fly non stop from bangalore to jaisalmer(1900 kms) for bombing trials, which CAN NOT be flown by DPSA Jaguar.(thats even before the news of FOC & new 710 liter supersonic drop tank developments)

he categorically asserts that Tejas mk1 has higher Radius of Action than jaguar.

And most of IAf's forward bases are tailor made to host Tejas type fighter only.

Infact most of the border area forward airbases hv hanger & blast pens to host mig 21, which can be used by Tejas, but no other IAF fighter,

su 30 MKi or any other bigger fighter has no infra to base them immediately.

And mostly these prized strike fighters are based in inland air bases only.

Air interception need alone will require 100s of fighter s for IAF.

They are best met by tejas,

Infact IAF gave specs fr tejas ,only with these things in mind
 

bhramos

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I write on why the Indian Air Force should drop its plan to make Tejas MkII aka Medium Weight Fighter & focus on the 5th Gen AMCA
 

ersakthivel

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IAF changed the ASQR only after the LCA was delayed, not before. Since the project was delayed, their requirements evolved with time, as happens in every weapons program.

No IAF doesn't insist on everything before induction. You simply lack knowledge. LCA has been accorded FOC and has entered production without gun trials
much worse,

IAF did not even specify the close combat missile of Tejas till 2008.

It was the new IAF requirement of r73 E , which impacts much higher launch stress on the wings,

which led to FSED phase 2 delayed tejas by years, All these are recorded in CAG report.

Today Tejas sits on IAF perch with undreamt of capability including Astra BVR M

And mk1A wil be the first fighter in IAF with AESA - 100 km range BVR missile - low RCS combo,

best suited fr air interception.

Also it generated six sorties per day per fighter in IAF excercise last year, no fighter in IAF can do that.

it also scored the most points fr accurate bomb delivery.

its the only fighter in IAF to hv Air conditioning,

Only one to hv meaningful cold start operation with event loads from Leh,

List of stuff to be added -
pressure refuelling,
hot refuelling,
OBOG, SFDR,
radio altimeters, etc



IAF pilots say that tejas is the Iphone of IAF.
 
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ersakthivel

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I write on why the Indian Air Force should drop its plan to make Tejas MkII aka Medium Weight Fighter & focus on the 5th Gen AMCA
I hv replied many times counterring this article.

with #Tejas_LCA

#TejasMK2 hashtags

This is the summary of those tweets,

countering the the spurious narrative being built up fr scrapping TejasMK2 & buying 100 odd f16s or f18,

which r a generation behind in RSS fly by wire aerodynamic planform

Or Gripen NG which is same as #ejasMK2 , but costly.

comparing the delayed timelines of Tejas_LCA mk1 ,

which had zero infra,

Noready LRU ,

IAF apathy,

FSED ph-2 delay,

Trickle funding,

US Sanctions delay,

US confiscating software equipments after pokhran test sanctions,

forcing redevelopment of RSS fly by ware frm scratch?

.pitiful dribble of funding by devil may care govts


No ready fly by wire tech fr RelaxedStaticStability fighter,(takes decades to master) To Tejas_LCA mk2 is unfair TejasMK2

Due to differences of opinion btn IAF,

MOD, ADA, Tejas_LCA mk1 followed the tortured ,

Tech development TD (just to prove flight) to Prototype PV, to limited series production LSP model,

IAF specified R73e only in 2008 or so leading to long FSED Phase2 of wing redesigning,


TejasMK2 is the much needed insurance against delays in StealthAMCA,

greenfield Tejas Mk1 Took tedious TD - PV-LSP route ,

needing 20 yrs fr FOC .

Tejas_LCA Mk2 -direct Limited Series Production from 1st fighter, fr quick FOC .

Fly by wire CLWAS, , Composites already mastered,

Since Tejas mk2 has ready availability of Tejas_LCA mk1's completed fly by wire control laws effort,

ADA is going fr direct production of TejasMK2 , no tech demos(TD), no PVs(prototype vehicles).

Since wing loading is the same fr both mk1&mk2, Mk2 can be developed very fast.


TejasMk2A 's low wing loading (world's lowest)design was custom built fr high altitude himalayan theatre,

with load ( Leh,other rough air fields) , which no other foreign single engine fighter design has.

Tejas_LCA mk1 spent decade mastering,

EW suit,

software defined radios,

SPJ, IRST, BVR,

ASEA radar integration,

HMDS cued off bore sight WVR missile capabilities,

all glass cockpit.

Now All of these are readily available TejasMK2 effort,

Considerably cutting down yrs needed fr FOC

What is , "entirely" new abt Tejas_MK2?,

Which won't substantially draw on , #Tejas mk1's,Composites,

Control laws of RSS fly by wire airframe,

tier 2 vendors, System integration experience frm integrating mission computer,

HMDS cued WVR DRFM equipped ASEA jamner

Air to air refuelling,

Astra, Derby , R73E, litening,

SPJ integration, Quartz radome,

SFDR, stores release simulation,

Cold start with decent loads fr a light fighter frm Leh?

CFD studies,

Cockpit ergonomics,

MFDs, Margin fr relaxed static stability, especially ,

when TejasMK2 has the same wing loading as tejas mk1.

Tejas mk2 has a world class new tech assembly line fr precise,

faster LSP production, Unlike mk1A which was cobbled together in obsolete jaguar production line.

All these long delays won't be there fr #TejasMK2

bcos weapon fit specs, proven tech are Already on the table.

Evolutionary designs don't need experimental airframes aka prototypes.

They go straight to LSP bcoz of lesser unknowns involved.

JAS-39E/F & F/A-18SH programs are examples. SAAB Test flighted systems individually on JAS-39D

before jumping straight to production standard JAS-39E.
 

Bleh

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mk1A doesnt require deep structural changes , mk1s can be upgraded to mk1A.
Those IOC fighters are certified to 6g while Mark1A are 8.5g. That could requir pretty deep structural changes.
Even compared to FOC fighters, Mark1A is supposed to have improved aerodynamics & maintainability, reduced weight & radar signature, increased life-cycle etc. I frankly don't see how they're gonna achieve all these in an upgradation without drastic internal or modular changes!

Personally I am a bit surprised that Mark1A is being based on the the Mark1 platform. Maybe MWF needs further finetuning, but the older Mark2 preliminary design (until 2014) elongated with single fuselage-plug that was basically a souped up the Mark1, was available.
DSC08323-769240.JPG
DSC00638-712880.JPG



They could have used that platform with more powerful F414 engine & more fuel for longer range... That could loophole IAF's light fighter loophole giving them less room to bitch about, while actually making the Mark1A platform better!
 

ersakthivel

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Those IOC fighters are certified to 6g while Mark1A are 8.5g. That could requir pretty deep structural changes.
Even compared to FOC fighters, Mark1A is supposed to have improved aerodynamics & maintainability, reduced weight & radar signature, increased life-cycle etc. I frankly don't see how they're gonna achieve all these in an upgradation without drastic internal or modular changes!

Personally I am a bit surprised that Mark1A is being based on the the Mark1 platform. Maybe MWF needs further finetuning, but the older Mark2 preliminary design (until 2014) elongated with single fuselage-plug that was basically a souped up the Mark1, was available.View attachment 39140 View attachment 39141


They could have used that platform with more powerful F414 engine & more fuel for longer range... That could loophole IAF's light fighter loophole giving them less room to bitch about, while actually making the Mark1A platform better!
wrong,

Flight envelope opening of FLY BY WIRE TECH SOFTWARE was limited to 6 Gs AT THE TIME OF IOC.

now once it reaches 8 plus Gs in FOC (after many test flights with updated software)

The IOC mk1 fighters' Fly by wire tech will also be updated with new software updates reaching 8 plus G,

The structure of both IOC & FOC fighters are the same

Even in IOC tejas the internal plumbing fr aerial refuelling wad fixed.

Now after FOC validates the fly by wire software & manouvers for aerial refuelling , thee can be ported on to IOC tejas mk1 as well.

This is normal practice in fly by wire fighters,

Same with the guns. Gun mounts can be fitted in IOC fighters once they are validated in trials.

Its not that these 20 mk1 IOC fighters will remain without gun, refuelling probe & stuck at 6G s forever

In fact spin test & departure control tests will go on even after FOC.

Maintainablity is changes to internal LRUs , which hv no effect on fighter specs,

plus all fighters produced at the cutting edge new facility will hv marginally better aerodynamics due to better fit & finish,

I dont know of any spectacular aerodynamic performance increase in mk1A,

There are many claims by HAL about reducing weight etc, nothing with concrete proof as far as I know

MK2 is an entirely different evolution level of Tejas planform,

It has nothing to do with mk1A>

Reason mk1A was put forth by Manohhar Parrikar was to maintain production line churning out tejas mk1 with class leading specs like ASEA , Astra BVR, plus many other bells & whistles asked by IAF in mk2, TO BE PORTED to mk1 airframe, till mk2 development finishes.

mk1A itself is one of the finest single engine fighters in Asian theater with



HMDS cued R73 E,

LOW RCS & 100 plus Km detection range hard to jam ASEA radar along with

ASTRA BVRM ,which is equal in capability to AIM 120 C % as tweeted by @hvtiaf,

All these capabilities can be added in in plain Tejas mk1 IOC itself (at IOC Tejas had HMDS cued R73 E, Derby, which is no slouch either)
 
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ersakthivel

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At MTOW it will definitely be a bomb-truck and fly like a 747, same for any multirole fighter going for strike mission. It'll depend on BVRs & will have to jettison the payload if drawn into a WVR dog-fight. But not so anymore after it has lost that extra weight.

Because empty weight of MWF is very close to empty weight of older Mark2 (will call that from now onwards), clean configuration thrust-to-weight ratio for both will be very similar if both are carrying same fuel, while MWF will still turn better due to its canards.
Same if both would carry equal payload of weapons... But MWF can carry more both fuel & armament, that increases its range & teeth. Ideally it will burn that extra fuel & shoot those extra BVRs before getting into WVR with optimum T/W, equal to old Mark2.

If it gets F414-EPE engine then it's performance will increase even more... Or will it get Safranised-Kaveri? I don't know. Confusing.
Still now ADA has no plans of using Tejas mk2 anards for pitch control--from authoritative sources,

They r planning it only fr trim
It can, but does it?... Why has noone seen one in that configuration (except that LCA Navy display in Aero India 2017)?

It's range will be reduced as the centreline drop-tank is only 750lt (don't know about the new supersonic one) for a CAP it'll allow 4 BVRs, upto 8 BVR+CCM in Mark1A.View attachment 39005
The two 1200lt wing-tanks config may be used for missions where range is the priority, but that always has the central-pylon left empty for some reason, allowing it to carry only 2 BVRs or LGBs.View attachment 39009
having center line pylons empty doesnt mean they will be empty, when inboard pylons carry drop tanks,
 

ersakthivel

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Compilation of latest Tejas footages of 2019... I have marked the exact moments. Watch for Tejagasm!

IOC Tejas is doing 180° turns in <7sec, full 360° min-radius-turn <20sec:

Filmed at Aero India 2019.. some short, sharp turns that got edited off most videos:

Although IOC Tejas is limited at 8G, you do see impressive stuff from time to time... 7sec 180° at 0:10, 17sec loop at 0:32:

See impressive (-)G turn at 1:55 & other good maneuvers at 1:10, 2:40, 3:35 & 5:50:

Tejas can be seen making impressively sharp turns from time to time, but not always for some reason... With IOC Tejas the 45th definitely can't do combat sorties.
I think the Flying Daggers should be turned into a dedicated display team for Tejas. Let them train in aggressive stunt flying for airshows!
"but not always for some reason.." ------------------?????????

dedicated display team?????
whats the reason????
 

vishnugupt

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I doubt there will be any structural or weight change between Mk1 and MK1A because MK1a is more of a HAL program not ADA and it will take 3 years just to evaluate Radar and Jammers and LRU rearrangement.
Tejas has always been more than 6G.
Air chief praised GE404 engine and Tejas range ( Bangalore to Jodhpur ) but same man was deaf and dumb when Tejas was being attacked from all side.
Now days like Tejas doesn't need IAF but IAF need Tejas desperately. Collapse of MMRCA deal was water shading point
 

patriots

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Bdw..mmrca 2....if successful..then it will take at least 4 years to deliver first jet....
Say 2024
If mk1a deal is signed this year then production in 2023....
Iaf needs Tejas desperately...as migs are ageing. .
 

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