LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[patriots]

LCA FOC versions will be out soon from hangers.

Who got get the same? same Flying Daggers?

No. 18 Squadron (Flying Bullets

 

[Kharavela]

I will repeat again, IAF is not looking for anymore light fighters, so why would they order more Mk1? The Mk1A order was forced on IAF by parikar. Simple point you guys cannot understand but you want IAF to order thousands of crores of worth of equipment for your inner mental peace.

As I have said in previous thread for LCA, IAF is behaving like a spoiled brat.
1) What are the reasons for not wanting light fighters ?
2) Why can't IAF go Indian Navy way & build what they want ?
3) Why IAF always insists for shiny imported toys instead of supporting indigenous effort and make it better gradually.
Solution is to shut down IAF, divide the resources & assets between IA / IN. Anyway air wars are either fought above land or sea. [emoji12][emoji12]

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[Kharavela]

More stupidity. LCA program as envisioned in 1983 was expected to deliver first operational fighter in mid 90's. Since the first fighter was delivered in mid 2010s, the requirements changed, as happens in every defence project.

And no, IAF didn't wake up in 2017. Mk2 project was sanctioned back in 2009. IAF never intended more than 40 lca mk1, even those were ordered to support the indigenous program even though they failed to meet the requirements. IAF was actually interested in mk2. Actually if someone has enough brain to go back to articles of 2014, they will find that DRDO had promised to equip IAF with 4 squadrons of mk2 by 2022. This is not expected of you since you do not have brains. Mk1a was born only when DRDO failed to keep yet another lofty promise and the reality struck.

Just go through the LCA history again & know how many times IAF has changed the ASQR.
Please tell me, had IAF been involved in LCA program & upgraded the LCA batch wise instead of "Include Everything Before Induction" unlike every Air force does, would not that have increased squadron strength as well as pilot experience more till date ?

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[Kharavela]

Neither Rafale A,B nor gripen A,B failed. They were early versions of the same fighter. Like lca mk1 is to mk1a and they would be upgraded to latest standards during MLU. Gripen has already served successfully for 20 years. On the contrary, lca mk1 and mk1a can never be upgraded to mwf levels since both are basically different fighters.

As for jaguar, again it would be retired by 2035.

Anyways clearly you don't know anything about the LCA program as is clear from your previous posts. That is why you are now trying to bring rafale, gripen and jaguar in the equation when I have called out your lies on LCA.

The basic problem is that you have some personal axe to grind with IAF. That is why you keep blaming them without proof. The amount of effort you are spending in disparaging IAF would be much better served in trying to learn about actual history of IAF procurements.

Pray tell me Sir, was Jaguar or Mirage or Mig-29 or even Su-30 MKI were fighting fit when inducted into IAF ? Have they got certification for mission deployment ?

If IAF could induct foreign products without FOC, why it failed to do so with LCA ?

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[Kharavela]

Well they are caught in a tussle between whether to waste money for mk1 or use it for mk1 a and mk2 . Infact what they want is mk 2 remember they have to operate these jet for another 25- 30 years atleast.

The fault is from all side and we seriously lack management of indigenous projects that is what hampering us more not the other reasons like IAF is an imported airforce or HAL / ADA is trash. We need people with management skills to run the project and deliver on time and not babudom of bureaucrats.

Tejas is delayed by more than a decade we should have gone for mk2 MWF in 2007-8 itself when IAF gave signals that LCA isn't enough. We didn't do it then despite understanding the future threat scenario and capability required we woke up pretty late with idea of MWF. This is a situation which should have been solved in 2000-10 time period by buying either more mirage or mig 29 to keep IAF sq no. around 35-40 we didn't do it then and instead went shopping for big ticket like MMRCA only to find out our purse doesn't have that much cash required.

Keeping mig 21 affloat is the only solution now no need to make hue n cry over that . Either you have an undefended airspace or defended by mig 21. They have already reduced flying those jets so couple squadrons won't hurt much and keep the no. of squadrons well enough for porks.

Request you to carefully study the offer made by Dassault to produce Mirage 2K in India. That was an honest offer and would have changed the course of fighter aircraft industry in India.
IAF actually wanted light aircraft like Mirage 2K to replace Mig 21s.

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[Kharavela]

Do you think IAF is interested in buying Gripen A/B or Rafale A/B ? Sorry but your point if there was one... is just gibberish.

Sorry mate, you are missing the point. Gripen or Rafale are not indigenous products, but LCA is. By supporting LCA, IAF would have helped itself.
F-35 has so many problems, still USAF is supporting, right.

But the current problem is more to do with sluggish rate of production by HAL which made sure that till 2008 (if I am not wrong ) they couldn't fulfill the requirement.

For your kind information, after 2003, there were negligible focus & fund allocation for LCA project till 2013.

https://www.tejas.gov.in/history/milestones.html

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[Kharavela]

Yes they did asked for it.. in 2004-6 period . A few wanted mirage to be the LCA and a twin engine MWF . While those involved with project wanted LCA and then LCA with a better engine. With Rafale Typhoon coming in the competition things changed and IAF was suddenly fine with mk2 with better engine . I mean can't blame them but now we are in this situation.

There was no concept of medium fighter then in 2004-6. It was simply MRCA (Multi Role Combat Aircraft).

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[Flying Dagger]

Request you to carefully study the offer made by Dassault to produce Mirage 2K in India. That was an honest offer and would have changed the course of fighter aircraft industry in India.
IAF actually wanted light aircraft like Mirage 2K to replace Mig 21s.

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Yes we all know about it They have been offering us since late 70s . When we decided to divide order between Jags and Mirage in 150 + 150 . But Soviet made us buy Migs.

Sorry mate, you are missing the point. Gripen or Rafale are not indigenous products, but LCA is. By supporting LCA, IAF would have helped itself.
F-35 has so many problems, still USAF is supporting, right.



For your kind information, after 2003, there were negligible focus & fund allocation for LCA project till 2013.

https://www.tejas.gov.in/history/milestones.html

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You shared brochure of Tejas but it doesn't provide any kind information about what you said .

And as said before IAF is inducting Tejas but buying mk1 in huge no. will not help either their limited budget or capability.

F - 35 is the most advanced American jet comparing apple to oranges won't get you anything here.

Your words didn't meant anything and there will be no point if all you got is a lame line that IAF is a spoilt brat.

There was no concept of medium fighter then in 2004-6. It was simply MRCA (Multi Role Combat Aircraft).

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There was always a distinction between fighters based on capability single and dual engine etc. A mix of high low aircrafts in inventory based on airforce budget and preference threat environment always existed. IAF merely divided it based on payload and weight.

Now though there was nothing to infer from your posts but when the enemy will be in the sky they won't let you win because you are flying an indigenous fighter jet.

 

[Defcon 1]

As I have said in previous thread for LCA, IAF is behaving like a spoiled brat.
1) What are the reasons for not wanting light fighters ?
2) Why can't IAF go Indian Navy way & build what they want ?
3) Why IAF always insists for shiny imported toys instead of supporting indigenous effort and make it better gradually.
Solution is to shut down IAF, divide the resources & assets between IA / IN. Anyway air wars are either fought above land or sea. [emoji12][emoji12]

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You simply do not understand enough
1. No airforce today wants light fighters. There is a not a single 5th gen light fighter program in the world today
2. This has been proposed many times by many people. Both IAF and IA should have their own design bureau. Guess we will have to wait for this reform.
3. IAF has supported indigenous programs enough. Its your fault if you cannot understand it and come out of your biases.

Sure, shut down IAF. One of the most stupid things I have ever read on this forum

 

[Defcon 1]

Just go through the LCA history again & know how many times IAF has changed the ASQR.
Please tell me, had IAF been involved in LCA program & upgraded the LCA batch wise instead of "Include Everything Before Induction" unlike every Air force does, would not that have increased squadron strength as well as pilot experience more till date ?

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IAF changed the ASQR only after the LCA was delayed, not before. Since the project was delayed, their requirements evolved with time, as happens in every weapons program.

No IAF doesn't insist on everything before induction. You simply lack knowledge. LCA has been accorded FOC and has entered production without gun trials

 

[Defcon 1]

Pray tell me Sir, was Jaguar or Mirage or Mig-29 or even Su-30 MKI were fighting fit when inducted into IAF ? Have they got certification for mission deployment ?

If IAF could induct foreign products without FOC, why it failed to do so with LCA ?

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Yes, jaguar, mig 29, mirage 2000 had entered their domestic airforces before getting inducted into IAF. They were ordered in the final phases of their development.
Su30mki was co developed by India, so how could it have been certified before induction? The fighter it was based on, Su 27, was inducted 15 years back when the mki program started.

And yes, IAF did induct LCA without FOC, 40 lca mk1 were ordered without FOC and 14 were in service when FOC was given during Aero India 2019. You need to learn more about this program.

 

[WolfPack86]

Tejas is best fighter aircraft.

 

[WolfPack86]

We should offer Tejas to Vietnam.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Tejas is best fighter aircraft.

I doubt I think raptor is slightly better but you never know

 

[Flying Dagger]

We should offer Tejas to Vietnam.

We can certainly market our trainer aircrafts once they enter production and are inducted in IAF .

Tejas have a low chance due to cost and their preference for Sukhoi .

Missiles are where we should provide them help .

 

[Holy Triad]

The Indian Air Force is going ahead with the 83 Tejas Mk1 and process for 114 of Tejas Medium Weight Fighter/ Medium Role Fighter Aircraft is being initiated. Also, the indigenous AMCA 5th Generation aircraft will be the future of IAF.

 

[ersakthivel]

So Flying daggers are about to land in srinagar, to meet the PAF F16s,,


Ahhh, Remeber the times ,

there were so many derisive comments about Tejas being stationed in Coimbatore proves they r inferior only

IAF is really making a big mistake in restricting the order fr Tejas mk1A to 83, which prevents HAL & its vendors from scalig up their production in time to 20 plus.

Since the present govt is more assertive in replying to PAK perfidy in Kashmir , with airpower

We can expect more defensive air action over kashmir as PAF wlll attack,since it cant lose face.

In these situations chances of Tejas claiming PAF fighter kills, while keeping its pilots safe is way better than mig21s

All test pilots of Tejas( many of whom are IAF Mirage 2000 pilots) rate it better than MIrage 2000 in close combat agility.

ANd Astra integration on Tejas is just months away, since Tejas uses the same pylon ,used by SU 30 MKI to launch Astra( which can also launch Russian BVR missiles).

SO the pace of Tejas production needs to pick up.

If mk1A certification takes time,

nothing stops IAF from ordering additional FOC Tejas mk1s, which can be upgraded later to mk1A.

Even after the shoot down of mig21 by PAF in the post balakote scramble, IAF hasnt increased orders for Tejas mk1 (FOC) is surprising to say the least

 

[Bleh]

So Flying daggers are about to land in srinagar, to meet the PAF F16s,,


Ahhh, Remeber the times ,

there were so many derisive comments about Tejas being stationed in Coimbatore proves they r inferior only

These would be Mark1A, those were IOC Mark1.

 

[uoftotaku]

So Flying daggers are about to land in srinagar, to meet the PAF F16s,,


Ahhh, Remeber the times ,

there were so many derisive comments about Tejas being stationed in Coimbatore proves they r inferior only

IAF is really making a big mistake in restricting the order fr Tejas mk1A to 83, which prevents HAL & its vendors from scalig up their production in time to 20 plus.

Since the present govt is more assertive in replying to PAK perfidy in Kashmir , with airpower

We can expect more defensive air action over kashmir as PAF wlll attack,since it cant lose face.

In these situations chances of Tejas claiming PAF fighter kills, while keeping its pilots safe is way better than mig21s

All test pilots of Tejas( many of whom are IAF Mirage 2000 pilots) rate it better than MIrage 2000 in close combat agility.

ANd Astra integration on Tejas is just months away, since Tejas uses the same pylon ,used by SU 30 MKI to launch Astra( which can also launch Russian BVR missiles).

SO the pace of Tejas production needs to pick up.

If mk1A certification takes time,

nothing stops IAF from ordering additional FOC Tejas mk1s, which can be upgraded later to mk1A.

Even after the shoot down of mig21 by PAF in the post balakote scramble, IAF hasnt increased orders for Tejas mk1 (FOC) is surprising to say the least

New ACM set a good tone today. Hope they back it up with action for a change. Bison needs to go...yesterday

 

[ersakthivel]

Test pilot group captain Suresh krishna has said
TejasMK1 better than mirage 2000 because,

Tejas mk1 has

1.higher Thrust to weight ratio (TWR) ,
2.LOWER WING LOADONG,
3. 4 channel digital fly by wire tech
4.longer BVR missile range

"fuel fraction" that determines fighters range in different altitudes & flight load outs. Here Tejas Is on par with its single engined peers.

It's just that HAL gives real combat load out flight profile range, while others give low weight hi alt loiter range.

Recent interviews by IAF pilots saying they were surprised by Tejas's endurance is a proof that,

Plus HAL test pilot @hvtiaf has said that Tejas has higher radius of action than jaguar, (the deep penetration strike aircraft of IAF)

Tejas has higher ITR, Higher STR,

Best LOWER RCS,+ higher tracking range combo in IAF Than upgraded mirage2000,

coming to the lower top speeds of tejas,

if mig21 uses its top speed of Mach 2 to dash fr interception ,

It will burn all its fuel in minutes.

No fighter can sustain mk2 speeds fr any purposeful period in combat.

. It'd just brochure spec.

Rafale (Mach 1.8) has a lower top speed than Mirage2000 's Mach 2 But not inferior.