LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[Flying Dagger]

Actually we did go for mk2 in 2007-08. The project was officially sanctioned in 2009.

Not MWF though.. please read what I mentioned. twin engine Tejas or something like this should have been taken then. The timeline was good enough to produce that .

 

[Defcon 1]

For you, IAF is an innocent child who knows nothing even they don't know what is their need for future.

Requirement change happens in every force. Comanche is one example that comes from top of my mind. And IAF knows what it wants, that is why they started mk2 project back in 2009. The fact that you didn't know is your problem, not theirs.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Ya DRDO failed same as Rafale A, B failed, so they have to developed D same as F-16 A, B,C failed same Gripen A, B, C failed.
But what is this Jaguar?? Since I born this mighty scam of IAF keep on upgrading but still, this didn't fail IAF even they are scavenging Jaguars from graveyards, such a mighty aircraft refuse to be old

Do you think IAF is interested in buying Gripen A/B or Rafale A/B ? Sorry but your point if there was one... is just gibberish.

Jaguar is a beautiful bird.There must have been kickbacks as it was chosen over mirage 2000. But the current problem is more to do with sluggish rate of production by HAL which made sure that till 2008 (if I am not wrong ) they couldn't fulfill the requirement.

This jet is still one of the most reliable option only lacking powerful engines.

 

[vishnugupt]

Well they are caught in a tussle between whether to waste money for mk1 or use it for mk1 a and mk2 . Infact what they want is mk 2 remember they have to operate these jet for another 25- 30 years atleast.

The fault is from all side and we seriously lack management of indigenous projects that is what hampering us more not the other reasons like IAF is an imported airforce or HAL / ADA is trash. We need people with management skills to run the project and deliver on time and not babudom of bureaucrats.

Tejas is delayed by more than a decade we should have gone for mk2 MWF in 2007-8 itself when IAF gave signals that LCA isn't enough. We didn't do it then despite understanding the future threat scenario and capability required we woke up pretty late with idea of MWF. This is a situation which should have been solved in 2000-10 time period by buying either more mirage or mig 29 to keep IAF sq no. around 35-40 we didn't do it then and instead went shopping for big ticket like MMRCA only to find out our purse doesn't have that much cash required.

Keeping mig 21 affloat is the only solution now no need to make hue n cry over that . Either you have an undefended airspace or defended by mig 21. They have already reduced flying those jets so couple squadrons won't hurt much and keep the no. of squadrons well enough for porks.

You are absolutely right about management point of view.

If IAF wants to be a Formidable air force then they should be the first to think about indigenization. It would be stupid if IAF was thinking that Tejas wasn't delayed. this was bound to happen as India was building its first truely indigenous aircraft ( everyone known to this fact since the beginning).
This is a pure lie that Tejas is 10 years late aircraft ( Don't compare with the USA) because our adversary will operate same 4th generation aircraft till 2060.
Delay is not a new thing, any project Around the world is delayed. If you apply same logic even F-35 is delayed 10 years with USA's standards because other 5th generation also around the corner which undermines America's supremacy.
Here like IAF doesn't have any responsibility of security planning they are like If DRDO doent developed any weapon in the given time then the next day they are free to refuse it. @Defcon 1 says Tejas mk1 promise expired in 2009 and while Mk2 will reach to maturity then they will refuse it

 

[vishnugupt]

Requirement change happens in every force. Comanche is one example that comes from top of my mind. And IAF knows what it wants, that is why they started mk2 project back in 2009. The fact that you didn't know is your problem, not theirs.

IAF started mk2 project ?? could you tell me what they did for it?? Nothing In fact they were high on MMRCA
No, it is not my problem it became IAF problem on the day when their 126 MMRCA tender fell flat on their face and that was the day when IAF started taking Tejas seriously

 

[Flying Dagger]

Ut

Meh... Jf-17 Block 3 isn't even ready yet. By the time they're inducted in any numbers, Tejas FOC could have Uttam AESA. Even before that the already compatible Mark1A's features like dual-racks, ECM, new supersonic drop-tanks, maybe Brahmos-NG too.

Derby from a light fighter doing CAP can take out an incursing J-10 or F-16 just as easily, as was displayed very recently... right now, even better than a Su-30 with outdated R-77.

Uttam is a decade away even mk1a will not have it. It will be a decent jet to fly but not meant for China unless you want them to have a target practice.

 

[Bleh]

Uttam is a decade away even mk1a will not have it. It will be a decent jet to fly but not meant for China unless you want them to have a target practice.

It's been under flight testing for quite a while now, with no hiccups & expected performance. If Dr G. Satheesh Reddy, the current Chairman of DRDO & Director General of ADA, says it's going as per schedule will be ready for Mark1A then I'll take his words over whatever you say or think... no offence.

And if its higher range & payload couldn't save F-16 from a vintage Mig-21 with outdated AAMs, then current FOC Tejas can definitely take on J-10.
Both may detect each other before entering effective BVR range. Derby & Astra are very likely superior to whatever R-XX or PL-XX both their J-10s & Flankers are using.

 

[Flying Dagger]

You are absolutely right about management point of view.

If IAF wants to be a Formidable air force then they should be the first to think about indigenization. It would be stupid if IAF was thinking that Tejas wasn't delayed. this was bound to happen as India was building its first truely indigenous aircraft ( everyone known to this fact since the beginning).
This is a pure lie that Tejas is 10 years late aircraft ( Don't compare with the USA) because our adversary will operate same 4th generation aircraft till 2060.
Delay is not a new thing, any project Around the world is delayed. If you apply same logic even F-35 is delayed 10 years with USA's standards because other 5th generation also around the corner which undermines America's supremacy.
Here like IAF doesn't have any responsibility of security planning they are like If DRDO doent developed any weapon in the given time then the next day they are free to refuse it. @Defcon 1 says Tejas mk1 promise expired in 2009 and while Mk2 will reach to maturity then they will refuse it

Tejas was delayed and is late to the party its a fact. There is no point in wasting time to justify that. There are many reasons behind it but the one main culprit is management of this project.

See IAF get into this mess due to decision taken in 1980s Jaguar Mirage 2000 Mig 29 three fighters bought with no proper planning. If we had gone for mirage 2000 then things would have been better. But UK and Ruskies then USSR were too heavy weight player in Indian politics compare to French.

In early 2000 IAF knew Tejas will take time they came up with damage control to buy mirage 2000 - 5 . I mean they knew the condition of mig 21 and were going in right direction but our bureaucracy fucked with them.

They saw hope in Rafale again fucked royally

Result We have old mig 21 to fly and IAF doesn't want more of Tejas to be forced on them. They have already accepted 123 out of which 40 will be mk1 let the HAL deliver that first.

 

[Flying Dagger]

It's been under flight testing for quite a while now, with no hiccups & expected performance.

If Dr G. Satheesh Reddy, the current Chairman of DRDO & Director General of ADA, says it's going as per schedule will be ready for Mark1A then I'll take his words over whatever you say or think... no offence.

Ohh dear you aren't the first one..

 

[Bleh]

Ohh dear you aren't the first one..

Ok. That's understandable................

 

[Flying Dagger]

IAF started mk2 project ?? could you tell me what they did for it?? Nothing In fact they were high on MMRCA
No, it is not my problem it became IAF problem on the day when their 126 MMRCA tender fell flat on their face and that was the day when IAF started taking Tejas seriously

Yes they did asked for it.. in 2004-6 period . A few wanted mirage to be the LCA and a twin engine MWF . While those involved with project wanted LCA and then LCA with a better engine. With Rafale Typhoon coming in the competition things changed and IAF was suddenly fine with mk2 with better engine . I mean can't blame them but now we are in this situation.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

IAF logic is great ask for a light weight aircraft in 90s. Then for a country like india which never had experience to build jet designed and build one in sanctions. Then they tried everything to kill that bird. (thanks to corrupt MOD and IAF love for forgein systems.)
The IAF said the Tejas is far behind its competitors like the JAS 39 Gripen manufactured by the Swedish aerospace company Saab and the US made F-16 manufactured by Lockheed Martin, sources were quoted as saying by India Today Friday.

The IAF made a presentation to the government to explain why Tejas alone can't meet India's requirements.

National Security Adviser Ajit Doval is understood to have raised the issue after the government asked the IAF to scrap its plans to acquire foreign made single engine fighters and go for the Indian made fighters only.

IAF never wanted to have a indigenous jet. Even development of there Mercedes (rafale took 35-40 years.) french showed confidence and ordered rafale in 2006 even when she had many problems. But that's how things work Chinese used inferior copies to make sure there industry grows. But "IAF no no" they expect a baked bird. How's that possible if bird is your own you can update it.

IAF should develop there own designs and technologies enough of there never ending needs. They should stick with there beloved Mig-21 only.
In fact they should tell Russians to build more of them instead of tejas buy that for IAF mig-21 bison was a better product.

If that product was so inferior they should have closed that program years ago. Why all this drama of indigenous jet public promotion and shit . If tejas was never build there was no road for mk-2 and other indigenous jets. Seriously saying i don't believe on any weapon review which comes out of IAF hands.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Delete............................

 

[Flying Dagger]

IAF logic is great ask for a light weight aircraft in 90s. Then for a country like india which never had experience to build jet designed and build one in sanctions. Then they tried everything to kill that bird. (thanks to corrupt MOD and IAF love for forgein systems.)
The IAF said the Tejas is far behind its competitors like the JAS 39 Gripen manufactured by the Swedish aerospace company Saab and the US made F-16 manufactured by Lockheed Martin, sources were quoted as saying by India Today Friday.

The IAF made a presentation to the government to explain why Tejas alone can't meet India's requirements.

National Security Adviser Ajit Doval is understood to have raised the issue after the government asked the IAF to scrap its plans to acquire foreign made single engine fighters and go for the Indian made fighters only.

IAF never wanted to have a indigenous jet. Even development of there Mercedes (rafale took 35-40 years.) french showed confidence and ordered rafale in 2006 even when she had many problems. But that's how things work Chinese used inferior copies to make sure there industry grows. But "IAF no no" they expect a baked bird. How's that possible if bird is your own you can update it.

IAF should develop there own designs and technologies enough of there never ending needs. They should stick with there beloved Mig-21 only.
In fact they should tell Russians to build more of them instead of tejas buy that for IAF mig-21 bison was a better product.

If that product was so inferior they should have closed that program years ago. Why all this drama of indigenous jet public promotion and shit . If tejas was never build there was no road for mk-2 and other indigenous jets. Seriously saying i don't believe on any weapon review which comes out of IAF hands.

They asked for LCA kind of fighter in late 70s around or early 80s you can say .. not 90s

The delay happened due to over the top boasting by GTRE for Kaveri and ADA on several different departments . They knew Kaveri engine is not going in for Tejas and the world has moved on you need atleast GE 414 class engine to power Tejas . But still derailed the entire project.

Thankfully there was a backup with GE F 414 and it's upcoming higher thrust version.

IAF has thrown ample weight behind it . It is the MOD who takes the final call..

You must understand they cannot keep waiting forever for HAL and ADA to deliver and stop induction of new jets they need.

You do know how they were fucked with Trainer aircraft delay. Many pilots suffered due to that but yeah keep blaming IAF.

 

[vampyrbladez]

IAF logic is great ask for a light weight aircraft in 90s. Then for a country like india which never had experience to build jet designed and build one in sanctions. Then they tried everything to kill that bird. (thanks to corrupt MOD and IAF love for forgein systems.)
The IAF said the Tejas is far behind its competitors like the JAS 39 Gripen manufactured by the Swedish aerospace company Saab and the US made F-16 manufactured by Lockheed Martin, sources were quoted as saying by India Today Friday.

The IAF made a presentation to the government to explain why Tejas alone can't meet India's requirements.

National Security Adviser Ajit Doval is understood to have raised the issue after the government asked the IAF to scrap its plans to acquire foreign made single engine fighters and go for the Indian made fighters only.

IAF never wanted to have a indigenous jet. Even development of there Mercedes (rafale took 35-40 years.) french showed confidence and ordered rafale in 2006 even when she had many problems. But that's how things work Chinese used inferior copies to make sure there industry grows. But "IAF no no" they expect a baked bird. How's that possible if bird is your own you can update it.

IAF should develop there own designs and technologies enough of there never ending needs. They should stick with there beloved Mig-21 only.
In fact they should tell Russians to build more of them instead of tejas buy that for IAF mig-21 bison was a better product.

If that product was so inferior they should have closed that program years ago. Why all this drama of indigenous jet public promotion and shit . If tejas was never build there was no road for mk-2 and other indigenous jets. Seriously saying i don't believe on any weapon review which comes out of IAF hands.

That's very old news. Consensus today is that Tejas is needed to replace MiG 21.

https://theprint.in/defence/hal-tie...taps-private-talent-for-tejas-mark-1a/288196/

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...-for-83-lca-fighters/articleshow/71012032.cms

 

[Assassin 2.0]

That's very old news. Consensus today is that Tejas is needed to replace MiG 21.

https://theprint.in/defence/hal-tie...taps-private-talent-for-tejas-mark-1a/288196/

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...-for-83-lca-fighters/articleshow/71012032.cms

Bro i know that's a old news but i posted it show IAF intentions to kill another indigenous platform.

Everyone want to see a well equipped force jets which doesn't put life of our brave soldiers in danger.

For armed forces it's OFB which charges high but give shitty weapons.

In case of IAF there was a corrupt previous MOD And some top brass and off course our beloved HAL. Which have put us in this situation. In which we have to fly a jet which is called widow maker. Flying a vintage 60s shit is shameful.

Only way forward should be indigenous systems.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Bro i know that's a old news but i posted it show IAF intentions to kill another indigenous platform.

Everyone want to see a well equipped force jets which doesn't put life of our brave soldiers in danger.

For armed forces it's OFB which charges high but give shitty weapons.

In case of IAF there was a corrupt previous MOD And some top brass and off course our beloved HAL. Which have put us in this situation. In which we have to fly a jet which is called widow maker. Flying a vintage 60s shit is shameful.

Only way forward should be indigenous systems.

IAF needs both quality and quantity. Tejas is an excellent way to make up for MiG 21BiS and MiG 27 retirements. The top brass knows this and thus the recent flurry in getting the 83 MK1A operational.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Bro i know that's a old news but i posted it show IAF intentions to kill another indigenous platform.

Everyone want to see a well equipped force jets which doesn't put life of our brave soldiers in danger.

For armed forces it's OFB which charges high but give shitty weapons.

In case of IAF there was a corrupt previous MOD And some top brass and off course our beloved HAL. Which have put us in this situation. In which we have to fly a jet which is called widow maker. Flying a vintage 60s shit is shameful.

Only way forward should be indigenous systems.

So atleast you now understand that it is not Army and IAF on fault.

And please don't go by the news blindly from media which doesn't know an iota of defense procurements.

Now how to tackle the situation is where we all are stuck with. We know what are the bottle necks but no wants to get their hands dirty.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

So atleast you now understand that it is not Army and IAF on fault.

And please don't go by the news blindly from media which doesn't know an iota of defense procurements.

Now how to tackle the situation is where we all are stuck with. We know what are the bottle necks but no wants to get their hands dirty.

By top brass i mean some previous IAF officials.

New chief of IAF were involved in development of tejas i think he will push forward and indigenously developed systems.

 

[VSinghCalhans]

By top brass i mean some previous IAF officials.

New chief of IAF were involved in development of tejas i think he will push forward and indigenously developed systems.

Hopefully we'll see first of Mk1a's being inducted before Mr. Bhadauria retires.