LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[jai jaganath]

Dude, relax. Just wait for the Super Sukhoi upgrade to go online and they will surpass the J-16.

Surpassing or not is not the issue
But timeline and quantity is the issue
Once that sorted we could improve our position against them
Let's see

 

[vin bharat mahan]

Nothing to do with the deino guy I am talking about the platform and the weapons j16 is superior to MKI in almost every way and now with even longer AAM these are getting more dangerous everyday meanwhile AMCA remains and decade or more away and mk2 half a decade or more away.

su 30 mki is 4 genration fighter,,, its lacks many 4.5 genration capabilities..like aesa radar, supercruise, digital cockpit, MAWS, towed decoy etc....so our super sukhoi upgrade make it 4.5 genration. very near to j16 (except composite body). it will remain higher RCS than su 35 nd j16.
so 40-50 million dollars upgrade is expected (with engine cost). but problem is 84 su 30 mki take 95 million dollar per aircraft upgrade plan. this price is enough to buy one new brand rafale, f35, j16 (without weapon) or su 30 mki, f16 (black 70) nd tejas mark 2 (with weapon). upgraded su 30 mki isnt going to surpass these aircraft after 95 million upgrade.
it will remain second strike aircraft of airforce in a war...front strike aircraft will be rafale, mirage 2000 nd tejas mark 2. so although su 30 mki capabilities will increase, it role as second strike aircraft not going to change after upgrade. even today su 30 mki with many standoff missiles (astra 2, astra 3, rudram series, brahmos etc) effective to strike from safe range.
so this 8 billion dollar is best utilised if we bought 80+ rafale (without weapon) or 40 approx full weapon loaded rafale.
if they upgraded all 260 su 30 mki in 8 billion dollar, than i hv no problem with it. but only 84 upgradation is surely unacceptable in 8 billion dollar price.

 

[vin bharat mahan]

I think a decent amount of it is royalties to Russia as well to not raise too many objections to the indigenous upgrades & continue with the warranty of the MKI. Maybe some Russian ToT of latest tech too.

I also believe apart from composites , RAM coatings, airframe overhaul & upgrade they'd be going in for a new improved FBW. A Bangalore based vendor is already working on it.

Be that as it may , the tip of the PLAAF spear in the WTC is still the J-20 & if the Rafale is the answer to the J-20s we still have only 36 of them.

At least we're moving somewhat on the MKI front . Hopefully by the end of the decade all 260-272 nos would be brought upto Super Sukhoi standards though I don't believe that would be the case.

okkk...but if we only doing 84 su30 mki upgrade in 8 billion dollar. that mean 95 million dollar per aircraft upgrade. rest 260-84= 176 su 30 mki upgrade will cost us 16.7 billion dollars.
is it justify 260 su 30 mki upgradation cost us total 24 billion dollar???

 

[Azaad]

okkk...but if we only doing 84 su30 mki upgrade in 8 billion dollar. that mean 95 million dollar per aircraft upgrade. rest 260-84= 176 su 30 mki upgrade will cost us 16.7 billion dollars.
is it justify 260 su 30 mki upgradation cost us total 24 billion dollar???

Check out the recent estimates for the brand new 12 MKIs we're ordering from HAL reportedly in the Super Sukhoi configuration . That should give you an insight into the cost of the upgradations.

 

[vin bharat mahan]

@vin bharat mahan

Quoting from DRDO thread.

BTW this Deino wumao was being shat upon by porkies on PedoForum.

agree ....but do u think j16 cost 95 million dollar?? our su 30 upgrade will give us 20 years service life. meanwhile a new j16 will give chinese 40 years service life.

 

[vin bharat mahan]

Check out the recent estimates for the brand new 12 MKIs we're ordering from HAL reportedly in the Super Sukhoi configuration . That should give you an insight into the cost of the upgradations.

Did we order 12 su 30 mki already?? this is limited order, thats why its price can higher. but 84 su 30 mki upgrade is good number.

 

[Blood+]

Surpassing or not is not the issue
But timeline and quantity is the issue
Once that sorted we could improve our position against them
Let's see

True but what can we do?? The simple fact that they are a lot richer nation than us can not be wished away and the situation is unlikely to alter in the near future, so we will have to live with it.

 

[Azaad]

Did we order 12 su 30 mki already?? this is limited order, thats why its price can higher. but 84 su 30 mki upgrade is good number.

The price per unit would be the same irrespective of the qty as per our contract with the Russians. One of the reasons it is high is because the contract was signed at a time when the rupee was considerably weaker than the rouble . In anticipation of the rupee getting weaker , MoD proposed freezing of the exchange rate at the prevailing rates which the Russians accepted. It backfired as the rouble weakened & the value of the rupee went up . Furthermore , this isn't a new order just a continuation of the old order augmenting the numbers.

 

[vin bharat mahan]

And if you spread the cost over 35 years, it comes out to be 2-3 billion dollars a year.

bro if u planning to produce 4.5 genration tejas mark 2 till 2058 (35 years u say),,,,,it will remain in our service till 2098. do u think after 2060 any 4.5 genration remain relevant. that time most countries hv 5-6-7 genration fighter. we will not going to upgrade our tejas mark 2 in 5 genration somehow.
just forget to mention...like j16, su 30 mki can equip 10 AAM missiles. 12 if u add two dual pylon, which drdo already make.

 

[johnj]

That's why I'm under assumption that our 100m $ super sukhoi upgrade include coposite material usage in the airframe, partial or complete.
That was the discussion above few hours back.

Doesn't matter, becaz LCA mk1a can spot J16 200km away [not considering EW]
OR if u neglect EW, MKI AESA and J16 can spot each other 350km away
The question is why upgrade a old jet for X amount, it you can buy a brand new one for same price ??

 

[johnj]

okkk...but if we only doing 84 su30 mki upgrade in 8 billion dollar. that mean 95 million dollar per aircraft upgrade. rest 260-84= 176 su 30 mki upgrade will cost us 16.7 billion dollars.
is it justify 260 su 30 mki upgradation cost us total 24 billion dollar???

Just Relax
The price is not final
Also price quoted not just for jet upgrade but for developing tech for mki upgrade prototype plus loyalties
We can only estimate final price only after CCS clear the deal.

 

[Azaad]

As per resident joker let's scrap all 4th Gen FA like the MiG -29 UPG , upgraded Mirage-2000s & of course the MKIs. This is the reason why I supported Sachin Vaze's plan to assassinate Mukesbhai . Vaze maybe as pissed as I am if not more over Jio crashing internet tariffs & getting the unwashed out here there & everywhere posting left right centre & bloody off centre.

 

[NutCracker]

Doesn't matter, becaz LCA mk1a can spot J16 200km away [not considering EW]
OR if u neglect EW, MKI AESA and J16 can spot each other 350km away
The question is why upgrade a old jet for X amount, it you can buy a brand new one for same price ??

I am just providing all the reasons for that extra amount.

Some flankers could also get wet points (they have none on wings). So that they can become a aerial refulers.

 

[johnj]

I am just providing all the reasons for that extra amount.

Some flankers could also get wet points (they have none on wings). So that they can become a aerial refulers.

Buy a true refuter or convert used airliners
IAF need all mki for defending airspace during war, FYI mki is a heavy class jet and its reversibility rate fall during the war and heavy jet having high maintained rate
MKI upgrade depends on its role, & all jet may get AESA tech

 

[vin bharat mahan]

after hearing all arguments....result is same like as mirage 2000 upgrade time.

 

[NutCracker]

View attachment 230774
Buy a true refuter or convert used airliners
IAF need all mki for defending airspace during war, FYI mki is a heavy class jet and its reversibility rate fall during the war and heavy jet having high maintained rate
MKI upgrade depends on its role, & all jet may get AESA tech

China is inducting PL17 and it looks massive . I know It's a long shot for that missile, but still it would be fine is IAF has some other agile refueling option which can fly close to our border .

 

[Azaad]

China is inducting PL17 and it looks massive . I know It's a long shot for that missile, but still it would be fine is IAF has some other agile refueling option which can fly close to our border .

Meteor reportedly has clocked a hit at 400 kms plus & as per French members at Strat Front it's not a one off thing.

 

[vin bharat mahan]

Meteor reportedly has clocked a hit at 400 kms plus & as per French members at Strat Front it's not a one off thing.

...r u serious. meteor NEZ (no escape zone) is 60 km. it can give approx 200-250 km maximum range.
if its 400 kmz hit range is true...than all enemy air assets r in its hit list. than we dont need SAMS like s400 etc, to counter enemy aircrafts. only barak 8 nd BMD system needed to counter cruise missiles nd ballistic missiles.

 

[Azaad]

I'm merely conveying to you what the French members there reported. When a few Indian members challenged the French they simply asked them to take it or leave it . I'd advise the same .

...r u serious. meteor NEZ (no escape zone) is 60 km. it can give approx 200-250 km maximum range.
if its 400 kmz hit range is true...than all enemy air assets r in its hit list. than we dont need SAMS like s400 etc, to counter enemy aircrafts. only barak 8 nd BMD system needed to counter cruise missiles nd ballistic missiles.

 

[NutCracker]

...r u serious. meteor NEZ (no escape zone) is 60 km. it can give approx 200-250 km maximum range.
if its 400 kmz hit range is true...than all enemy air assets r in its hit list. than we dont need SAMS like s400 etc, to counter enemy aircrafts. only barak 8 nd BMD system needed to counter cruise missiles nd ballistic missiles.

SAMs are essential till you scramble your jets. You can't keep flying jets 24*7.