LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[johnj]

China is inducting PL17 and it looks massive . I know It's a long shot for that missile, but still it would be fine is IAF has some other agile refueling option which can fly close to our border .

I'm am not so dumb to sent a refueler close to battle space or send a jet to combat with out enough fuel to complex mission and to return base and IAF is way better than me
Refueling is done after or before the mission at a safe zone, but AWACS fly close to the war zone
DRDO developing ASEA based EW suite and help to counter PL17

 

[johnj]

...r u serious. meteor NEZ (no escape zone) is 60 km. it can give approx 200-250 km maximum range.
if its 400 kmz hit range is true...than all enemy air assets r in its hit list. than we dont need SAMS like s400 etc, to counter enemy aircrafts. only barak 8 nd BMD system needed to counter cruise missiles nd ballistic missiles.

60 km NEZ for export, max range 150km + export
Q is, what is the NEZ of pl17 against aircraft having advanced EW

 

[vin bharat mahan]

60 km NEZ for export, max range 150km + export
Q is, what is the NEZ of pl17 against aircraft having advanced EW

i dont expect chinese will overthrow meteor capabilities nd range from their PL17. their PL 15 is already too much hyped by pakistan, USA nd chinese themself. which is basically near astra 2 capability.

 

[DumbPilot]

...r u serious. meteor NEZ (no escape zone) is 60 km. it can give approx 200-250 km maximum range.
if its 400 kmz hit range is true...than all enemy air assets r in its hit list. than we dont need SAMS like s400 etc, to counter enemy aircrafts. only barak 8 nd BMD system needed to counter cruise missiles nd ballistic missiles.

where did you read Meteor NEZ is 60km?

 

[DumbPilot]

Q is, what is the NEZ of pl17 against aircraft having advanced EW

those who know the answer will not speak and those who speak will not know

 

[Bleh]

Engine upgrade should have been included in the package as well.

Airframe too... Chinks fly fully composite skinned Sukhois with less than ⅓rd of MKI's RCS.

 

[Blood+]

Airframe too... Chinks fly fully composite skinned Sukhois with less than ⅓rd of MKI's RCS.

That's got more to do with RAM coating than use of composites, but yeah, I would definitely prefer an airframe upgrade simply for how much weight that can be shaved off, plus radar blockers inside the engine inlets wouldn't hurt. I mean, if you are going for it, then go all the way in, no point half-arsing it.

 

[Satish Sharma]

I would say that IR missiles are way better off at closer range to my knowledge. This might have changed in very very recent times - I say this because of several reasons:

- Radar guided missiles, while they may have a capability to pull high amount of Gs, their sensors don't have a big gimbal limit. For targets with high angular motion(that is, at close range), they may fail simply because by the time they can guide onto the target, the target itself has gone out of the missile seeker head

- Radar guided missiles don't work autonomously during launch. There has to be an initial "download" of target position and velocity information from the plane's computer to the missile's computer before the missile can release and fly to the last known position, hence there is a short delay while launching the missile

- Infrared missiles can be launched right away. They see the target, give audio feedback to the pilot, and then they are launched. They don't leave any sort of warning(unless if you have a MAWS, but even then I doubt it is accurate 100% of the time) because modern heat seeking missiles are smokeless.

- Infrared missiles have a very very high seeker head gimbal limit, upwards of 90° in most modern missiles - they can literally look 90° in a direction away from the direction of motion - which makes it very reliable, combined with a very very high maneuverabillity(ability to pull 50Gs+)

EDIT: I was talking about below 3nm to 5nm distances, otherwise using radar guided missiles is better. More lethal and kinetically able

I disagree with your 2nd point you should see what is lock on after launch.. bvr missiles are more deadlier than ir missiles if you are in the kill zone of missiles which is generally more than ranges of IR missiles and kill zone is half the range of the particular air 2air missiles except sfdr propulsion missiles which carry alot of energy till it's terminal phase. Whereas if normal missiles like aim120 are fired from 50-60km then it's confirm kill

 

[rone]

Airframe too... Chinks fly fully composite skinned Sukhois with less than ⅓rd of MKI's RCS.

No they don't, see latest us b52 and j11interception ir video, you can see j16 lighting like Xmas tree, if they have used composite airframe the ir reflection also much lower

 

[mist_consecutive]

No they don't, see latest us b52 and j16 interception ir video, you can see j16 lighting like Xmas tree, if they have used composite airframe the ir reflection also much lower

I think you are interpreting this wrongly. See the metallic areas (gun exhaust) which are made of titanium, as well as engine exhaust nacelle which is metal, are cold (dark).

If you think about it, it makes sense since metals are good conductors (and dissipators) of heat. Composite, non-metallic airframe heats up slowly but retains the heat since it's a poor conductor of thermal energy, most heat is dissipated as IR-radiation (visible) instead of convection/conduction.

If anything, this video shows J-16 has a complete composite airframe.

 

[Blood+]

I think you are interpreting this wrongly. See the metallic areas (gun exhaust) which are made of titanium, as well as engine exhaust nacelle which is metal, are cold (dark).

If you think about it, it makes sense since metals are good conductors (and dissipators) of heat. Composite, non-metallic airframe heats up slowly but retains the heat since it's a poor conductor of thermal energy, most heat is dissipated as IR-radiation (visible) instead of convection/conduction.

If anything, this video shows J-16 has a complete composite airframe.

I was about to write a whole essay on the subject but you summed it up perfectly.

 

[Satish Sharma]

i dont expect chinese will overthrow meteor capabilities nd range from their PL17. their PL 15 is already too much hyped by pakistan, USA nd chinese themself. which is basically near astra 2 capability.

Astra 2 is dual pulse I think pl17 is also dual astra 2 has double the range of astra mk1. Some say astra mk1 has 110km and mk2 160km but the officials of drdo did say it will have double the range surely pl17 will not surpass the capabilities of meteor neither astra mk2 .they are now making the seeker otherwise they using seeker made by gnat, moscow. There pl 8 is python 3. Israel has done alot of deal with china & Chinese military stuff is very overrated..no wonder they allocates 5 billion dollars annually from in budget for information warfare or funding media.. for china astra mk3 will be real deal for Pakistan astra mk2 is enough along with a good fighter & radar

 

[Blood+]

i dont expect chinese will overthrow meteor capabilities nd range from their PL17. their PL 15 is already too much hyped by pakistan, USA nd chinese themself. which is basically near astra 2 capability.

Range could be higher for PL-17 since it's a much bigger missile intended for a completely different purpose than other BVR missiles. They can stuff as much propellant into it as they want since maneuverability isn't really a concern.

 

[Blood+]

Astra 2 is dual pulse I think pl17 is also dual astra 2 has double the range of astra mk1. Some say astra mk1 has 110km and mk2 160km but the officials of drdo did say it will have double the range surely pl17 will not surpass the capabilities of meteor neither astra mk2 .they are now making the seeker otherwise they using seeker made by gnat, moscow. There pl 8 is python 3. Israel has done alot of deal with china & Chinese military stuff is very overrated..no wonder they allocates 5 billion dollars annually from in budget for information warfare or funding media.. for china astra mk3 will be real deal for Pakistan astra mk2 is enough along with a good fighter & radar

We don't know that for certain and we certainly wouldn't wanna find out the hard way, so, really no point speculating.

 

[vin bharat mahan]

Range could be higher for PL-17 since it's a much bigger missile intended for a completely different purpose than other BVR missiles. They can stuff as much propellant into it as they want since maneuverability isn't really a concern.

yes...we should buy russian R 37 M (350-400 km range) to counter chinese AWACS etc. we dont hv any plan to build longer range BVR missile. once we heard that drdo etc want to develop awacs killer missiles on basis of brahmos. now we didnt hear any news about it.

 

[Blood+]

yes...we should buy russian R 37 M (350-400 km range) to counter chinese AWACS etc. we dont hv any plan to build longer range BVR missile. once we heard that drdo etc want to develop awacs killer missiles on basis of brahmos. now we didnt hear any news about it.

An SFDR based long range AAM should suffice for that, I think. But yes, in the meanwhile, India should indeed look into the R-37M.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

India should indeed look into the R-37M.

With an active aesa seeker, sure.

 

[Blood+]

With an active aesa seeker, sure.

Yeah, seeker should be of Indian origin.

 

[Super Flanker]

Because we need economy of scale and we are also facing PAF on another front. When you have 1000 you won't have them all operating but most of them will be operational and the rest would be undergoing maintenance and repair. If you have 1000, you will only have about 750-800 planes in working order and the rest are in maintenance and repair. And you have to consider wartime losses and peacetime operational losses.

Look at USAF. It produced over 2200 F-16s for its own use and lost about 650 jets throughout the years and had about 1253 jets left in 2007. Now it is down to 841 F-16 jets.

And besides China may not have 1000 J10C right now but you can bet your bottom ass that they will get there and well over 1000.

The USAF alone has more than 800 F-16s, that is more than 3 times the number of Su-30MKI that the IAF operates, do you understand the difference between the USAF & IAF? What you are saying is entirely possible, of course we can order 1000s of Tejas, another 100 flankers and whatever you have on your wish list but there is a roadblock to your fantasy: "Money/Budget constraints!"

Have you checked how much the US spends on its armed forces as compared to India? The US's defence budget is more than 8 - 10 times more than that of India, ideally to have more purchasing power, we need to have more wealth and of course an increased defence budget, and how is this going to be possible? When our economy grows stronger. Besides our main adversary is China, we have a geographic advantage too in the region bordering China as far as fire power is concerned, this is if China would be the aggressor.

In war, it's not always necessary that your inventory be as large as your enemy's, even if you have 1/2 or 3/4th of your enemy's numbers, you can still put up a fight and win with good strategy and planning. In the case of PAF and PLAAF, there is no need to have as many aircrafts as them in order to go toe to toe with them. We need to invest more in ADS, and we are doing just that in conjunction to increasing our airforce's size. We need more long range air defences such as the S-400s, I think we are working on an indigenous Indian Analogue of the S-400.

This decade has many things in store for us, Russia invaded Ukraine, Israel and Hamas are at war, soon China may attack Taiwan, afterwards they may attack India and a full scale war may break out between the two nations.

 

[Bleh]

No they don't, see latest us b52 and j11interception ir video, you can see j16 lighting like Xmas tree, if they have used composite airframe the ir reflection also much lower

That's the fucking thermal imaging