LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

no smoking

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Astra 2 is dual pulse I think pl17 is also dual astra 2 has double the range of astra mk1. Some say astra mk1 has 110km and mk2 160km but the officials of drdo did say it will have double the range surely pl17 will not surpass the capabilities of meteor neither astra mk2 .
Their public data of PL-15E's maxi range is 145km. To some extent, that proves Americans' estimation of PL-15's range: 200km.
 

kamaal

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We should only comment about the upgrade cost only after the complete detail. This upgrade will target the J20 and J16 combo, something big and surprising may be added and that my have shot up the cost.
I speculate an upgraded engine, powerful aesa, new composites to hide IR, irst, RAM coating and new weapons package.
To target J20 and J16s you something big and I think IAF is going big on upgrades and giving up on MRFA.
 

spacemarine2023

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An SFDR based long range AAM should suffice for that, I think. But yes, in the meanwhile, India should indeed look into the R-37M.
why R-37M? India has better seeker now if we want a dedicated AWACS killer just add extra fuel for both solid motors in Astra-2…
I see chinese doing the same with PL-17 it wont be effective against fighters, its role likely will be AWACS and satellite hits.
Meteor or Astra-3 with Ramjet wont be able to hit sats for PL-17 makes sense.
There is definitely a role here for Anti Sat weapon.
 

Blood+

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why R-37M? India has better seeker now if we want a dedicated AWACS killer just add extra fuel for both solid motors in Astra-2…
I see chinese doing the same with PL-17 it wont be effective against fighters, it role will be AWACS and satellite hits.
Meteor or Astra-3 with Ramjet wont be able to hit sats for PL-17 makes sense.
There is definitely a role here for Anti Sat weapon.
I said for the interim, as in till our own examples are ready.
 

Gyyan

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why R-37M? India has better seeker now if we want a dedicated AWACS killer just add extra fuel for both solid motors in Astra-2…
I see chinese doing the same with PL-17 it wont be effective against fighters, its role likely will be AWACS and satellite hits.
Meteor or Astra-3 with Ramjet wont be able to hit sats for PL-17 makes sense.
There is definitely a role here for Anti Sat weapon.
Hmm interesting idea since Chinese are also working on a SFDR based PL-XX which will outrange Pl-15.
So yeah but it can also be because a 2pulse/3pulse larger missile would be cheaper compared a SFDR based missile but then again the role you would be going for is anti-awacs/refulers type so a little bit of price reduction doesn't make sense.
 

Satish Sharma

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An SFDR based long range AAM should suffice for that, I think. But yes, in the meanwhile, India should indeed look into the R-37M.
An SFDR based long range AAM should suffice for that, I think. But yes, in the meanwhile, India should indeed look into the R-37M.
Well this long range comes with weights 600-700kg whereas sfdr weights way less than rocket propulsion missiles the aim120C of 105km weights 152kg whereas meteor with 200+ km weights 190kg. Definitely because it consumes atmospheric oxygen. We should have something For meantime.
but i think we had a project with Russia for long range something like k100 or novator ks172. Which had 400km range but that project is on hault right now. this is just not that practical thing. It weights 750kg u just can reach that close to awacs & tankers in actuall combat scenario there are going to be alot of other factors which will be there to engage you..
Chinese are propaganda masters. There pl 15 &17 have sometime 150km range sometime 250km wiki say 350km. This long range missiles are not that practical. What we need is an sfdr which will carry alot of energy till it's terminal phase. which is why meteor is game changer. They also weight less . We are not working on it because sfdr seems more practical option of India instead of spending money on Russians just like we paid for R&D for mki upgradation and u know what happened after that.
 
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Satish Sharma

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yes...we should buy russian R 37 M (350-400 km range) to counter chinese AWACS etc. we dont hv any plan to build longer range BVR missile. once we heard that drdo etc want to develop awacs killer missiles on basis of brahmos. now we didnt hear any news about it.
We had a plan. We were working on k100 with Russians but that is not that practical. I think sfdr killed that thing. That's why we have 350km range on astra mk3. It doesn't seems practical to me to have this long range missile for other purpose than tankers & awacs. It will weight more which doesn't seems good if u you have to engage enemy aircraft. Meteor has ideal range of 200km. There could be another sfdr with this same job of meteor.
 

vin bharat mahan

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We had a plan. We were working on k100 with Russians but that is not that practical. I think sfdr killed that thing. That's why we have 350km range on astra mk3. It doesn't seems practical to me to have this long range missile for other purpose than tankers & awacs. It will weight more which doesn't seems good if u you have to engage enemy aircraft. Meteor has ideal range of 200km. There could be another sfdr with this same job of meteor.
firstly lets build up astra 3 (SFDR its another name), than we talk about its range. astra 3 will be similar to meteor (which hv 200-250 km range), how can it hit 350 km is beyond our guess. even american same technology (ramjet motor like meteor) bvr AIM 260 nd chinese PL 21 will be lesser range than PL17 nd russian r37 M.
 

Satish Sharma

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firstly lets build up astra 3 (SFDR its another name), than we talk about its range. astra 3 will be similar to meteor (which hv 200-250 km range), how can it hit 350 km is beyond our guess. even american same technology (ramjet motor like meteor) bvr AIM 260 nd chinese PL 21 will be lesser range than PL17 nd russian r37 M.
firstly lets build up astra 3 (SFDR its another name), than we talk about its range. astra 3 will be similar to meteor (which hv 200-250 km range), how can it hit 350 km is beyond our guess. even american same technology (ramjet motor like meteor) bvr AIM 260 nd chinese PL 21 will be lesser range than PL17 nd russian r37 M.
What I'm saying is 350km isn't practical thing for except to target tankers and awacs. And I got this data of 350km from some websites,news. We could have 200-250km astra sfdr because thats the practical thing to engage enemy fighter. I don't know how it will hit 350km away but other are making it why shouldn't we make then.
 

raju1982

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What I'm saying is 350km isn't practical thing for except to target tankers and awacs. And I got this data of 350km from some websites,news. We could have 200-250km astra sfdr because thats the practical thing to engage enemy fighter. I don't know how it will hit 350km away but other are making it why shouldn't we make then.
Tracking and guiding against a modern low RCS fighter aircraft beyond 200 km is impossible with seeker size of Astra type AAM. Also tracking and guiding though AWACS is not practical either
 

Blood+

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Well this long range comes with weights 600-700kg whereas sfdr weights way less than rocket propulsion missiles the aim120C of 105km weights 152kg whereas meteor with 200+ km weights 190kg. Definitely because it consumes atmospheric oxygen. We should have something For meantime.
but i think we had a project with Russia for long range something like k100 or novator ks172. Which had 400km range but that project is on hault right now. this is just not that practical thing. It weights 750kg u just can reach that close to awacs & tankers in actuall combat scenario there are going to be alot of other factors which will be there to engage you..
Chinese are propaganda masters. There pl 15 &17 have sometime 150km range sometime 250km wiki say 350km. This long range missiles are not that practical. What we need is an sfdr which will carry alot of energy till it's terminal phase. which is why meteor is game changer. They also weight less . We are not working on it because sfdr seems more practical option of India instead of spending money on Russians just like we paid for R&D for mki upgradation and u know what happened after that.
So what's your point??
 

Satish Sharma

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So what's your point??
You said we should purchase r37m. I was saying that iaf will not purchase because we stopped the similar missile projects on which we were working with Russians. And also why it is not a practical thing. That's it...
 

Blood+

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You said we should purchase r37m. I was saying that iaf will not purchase because we stopped the similar missile projects on which we were working with Russians. And also why it is not a practical thing. That's it...
Then I must say that you really have a very convoluted way of explaining things. Oh and you're dead wrong.
 

Blood+

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What I'm saying is 350km isn't practical thing for except to target tankers and awacs. And I got this data of 350km from some websites,news. We could have 200-250km astra sfdr because thats the practical thing to engage enemy fighter. I don't know how it will hit 350km away but other are making it why shouldn't we make then.
You do realize that missiles like R-37M and K-100 etc. are solely intended for those exact same things (AWACS and refuelers) and not fighter aircraft??
 

Satish Sharma

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You do realize that missiles like R-37M and K-100 etc. are solely intended for those exact same things (AWACS and refuelers) and not fighter aircraft??
That's what I said bruh, 350km range SFDR missiles which were developing is solely for awacs. To engage fighters 200km is idle like meteor. Yeah I did not explain it properly. U wrote that we should buy R37m. I said that iaf will not buy r37 & infact we stopped development of k100 which was joint development project of india-Russia.
Anyways you were Right
 

spacemarine2023

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Tracking and guiding against a modern low RCS fighter aircraft beyond 200 km is impossible with seeker size of Astra type AAM. Also tracking and guiding though AWACS is not practical either
lol 200 km is a long stretch for a modern fighter… 100 kms or so after that pretty hard to maintain guidance for missile lock…
Also nowadays AWACS and Refuelers are jet powered which can quickly go below the horizon for even airborne radars guiding a missile from 100 plus kms…

PL-17 will likely be used for area denial roles but if fired I dont see it achieving any kills on any jet powered AWACS or Refuelers..
But I can see it can hit low orbit sats which has no manoeuvring capabilities.. ~300 kms …
 

NutCracker

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lol 200 km is a long stretch for a modern fighter… 100 kms or so after that pretty hard to maintain guidance for missile lock…
Also nowadays AWACS and Refuelers are jet powered which can quickly go below the horizon for even airborne radars guiding a missile from 100 plus kms…

PL-17 will likely be used for area denial roles but if fired I dont see it achieving any kills on any jet powered AWACS or Refuelers..
But I can see it can hit low orbit sats which has no manoeuvring capabilities.. ~300 kms …
You forgot about gravity.
Even 1000km horizontal range won't translate into 300km altitude capability.
Anti-Sat weapons are totally different league.
 

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