LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[IndianHawk]

Biggest issues with Mig and Sukhoi are : Russian BVR ( the actual range is nothing to do with declared one).

Su30mki has already got Astra and mica . Mig29 will soon get Astra. Not a problem anymore.

 

[onlinpunit]

Su30mki has already got Astra and mica . Mig29 will soon get Astra. Not a problem anymore.

Range of Astra is not enough ( compared to AIM 120) at this moment. We need to wait for Astra MK1. That will take care of the issues..
Currently our best bet is Derby ER.

 

[IndianHawk]

Range of Astra is not enough ( compared to AIM 120) at this moment. We need to wait for Astra MK1. That will take care of the issues..
Currently our best bet is Derby ER.

Astra mk1 itself matches range of aim 102 c5 which pakistan has. It has much better seeker and jam resistance compared to c5.

Derby ER and Astra mk2 will be needed to outclassed aim120 d if Pakistan gets it in future.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Astra mk1 itself matches range of aim 102 c5 which pakistan has. It has much better seeker and jam resistance compared to c5.

Derby ER and Astra mk2 will be needed to outclassed aim120 d if Pakistan gets it in future.

Astra MK1 has 5km more range than AIM-120C AMRAAM of PeeAF.

 

[Aditya Ballal]

Astra mk1 itself matches range of aim 102 c5 which pakistan has. It has much better seeker and jam resistance compared to c5.

Derby ER and Astra mk2 will be needed to outclassed aim120 d if Pakistan gets it in future.

I’m not too familiar with the Astra missile could someone explain how it’s jamming resistance and seeker is better than AIM120C5?
Thanks in advance.

 

[Ar.gaurav28]

Vajpayee government was offered production of mirage 2000-5 in India but didn't take it . France had offered to shift entire mirage 2000 production line to India as it was shifting to rafale production but BJP thought that it will win 2004 election and then hold MRCA contest with rafale in it . Instead of only 36 rafales we could have had hundreds of mirage 2000s as our MRCA .

After Kargil war in 1999, the govt and IAF realised the quality of mirage 2000s but that time the production line was already stopped & rafale wasn’t even inducted by then!
MMRCA was released by UPA in 2007 & regardless of MMRCA if that time if UPA would have supported LCA we could have inducted it in as soon as 2011.
Thus wouldn’t have lost many pilots in mig21&29. Maybe wouldn’t have even needed the 36 rafale we just bought...
things like mk2 ,AMCA,TEDBF would already have a matured manufacturing industry!

 

[rone]

I’m not too familiar with the Astra missile could someone explain how it’s jamming resistance and seeker is better than AIM120C5?
Thanks in advance.

effective strike range of aim120c5 for medium maneuverable target is 80 km ( from DCS community ) maximum range for non maneuverable target in head on mode is 108 km, same time for astra for medium maneuverable target is 90 km ( from drdo publication ) for non maneuverable target on head on mode its 105 to 110 km approximately

astra lacks home on jamming function but its seeker more modern than aim120c5 seeker which is early 2k or 90s tech

 

[Ar.gaurav28]

Biggest issues with Mig and Sukhoi are : Russian BVR ( the actual range is nothing to do with declared one).

So you don’t believe we took out f16 with r73 from our mig21??
they did used AIM120 on our jets...which we evaded!

 

[daya]

Government must take stern steps. IAF be ordered to accept the TEJAS on as it is basis as on date. HAL be ordered to tweak, refine and upgrade TEJAS as per IAF requirement. More production lines be erected. Bhaiya raymond's man to kabhi ban hi nahi payenge.. And retire the BISONs gradually.

 

[Lonewolf]

Government must take stern steps. IAF be ordered to accept the TEJAS on as it is basis as on date. HAL be ordered to tweak, refine and upgrade TEJAS as per IAF requirement. More production lines be erected. Bhaiya raymond's man to kabhi ban hi nahi payenge.. And retire the BISONs gradually.

Kiddo read the thread from day 1 and then comment

 

[The Maverick]

Mig29 UPG is fine if the cockpit is modernised like Tejas mk2 and the ew suites and radars are of indian or israeli standard. The stand off weapons and BVR missles have to mix of latest russian ISRAELI and india orgin.

Finally due to engine high maintenance the coist should be lower than even Tejas mk1

ONLY THE IS IT worthwhile buying any

 

[Trololo]

Mig29 UPG is fine if the cockpit is modernised like Tejas mk2 and the ew suites and radars are of indian or israeli standard. The stand off weapons and BVR missles have to mix of latest russian ISRAELI and india orgin.

Finally due to engine high maintenance the coist should be lower than even Tejas mk1

ONLY THE IS IT worthwhile buying any

MiG 29UPG is actually meant for 2nd line defence, except in LAC area for now. Current UPG airframes are from 80s era and there is only so much that can be done on them. IMO the UPG upgrade is very sensible with the excellent D-29 EW package, limited glass cockpit, new engines etc. As second line quick reaction point defence birds they should do well until the mid 2030s, by which time LCA Mk2s and AMCAs will start replacing them.

A lot of the missed out stuff on the UPGs can be attempted on the new 21 MiG 29s that are supposed to come to the IAF, but MiG 29s will always remain a second line platform in our ORBAT.

Please do recall that the MWF was designed to replace the M2Ks, Jags, and MiG 29s.

 

[onlinpunit]

So you don’t believe we took out f16 with r73 from our mig21??
they did used AIM120 on our jets...which we evaded!

R73 is not a long range BVR. Forcing abhi to enter their air space.
Our sukhoi could not get a lock with R 77.

 

[Lonewolf]

R73 is not a long range BVR. Forcing abhi to enter their air space.
Our sukhoi could not get a lock with R 77.

Okay so you want a meteor , right or aim 120d cause other were equivalent to r 77 .

 

[onlinpunit]

Okay so you want a meteor , right or aim 120d cause other were equivalent to r 77 .

We had advantage of outgunning PAF in BVR till the arrival of AIM series.
That advantage kept PAF away during Kargil War.
I simply want that advantage to return.
Current Russian BVR are not sufficient.

 

[Lonewolf]

We had advantage of outgunning PAF in BVR till the arrival of AIM series.
That advantage kept PAF away during Kargil War.
I simply want that advantage to return.
Current Russian BVR are not sufficient.

Aim which one you talking about .aim 120 c is similar to astra mk1 and r 77

 

[Flying Dagger]

Somewhere I read that Mikoyen offered us Mig 29 assembly and joint future development option in late 80s when our last Mig 21 roll out from HALs line.
If the above information is true, I think it was a missed opportunity, a good 200-250 nos of Mig 29 could kill the MMRCA problem we are facing now
Later around 2011, order of 120-140 Su 30mki/sm + roughly around this time another 5/6 squadron if Su 35/30 mki might solve the squadron/modernization problem we are facing right now .

Well just like current mmrca saga the previous one was a long one too.

Jags were offered they were twin engine and good replacement for Marut which the politician decided to dump for Jags.

But then French offered Mirage 2k an already proven series of fighter jets against Porks acquisition of F-16.

IAF liked it better and had avionics etc better than what we had . But then UK Whitemaster used their whip and we decided to continue with Jags but IAF was keen on Mirage so requirement if 300+ was divided among both type.

A contract for 150 was being negotiated with French 40 to be bought 110 assembled/built in India by HAL. Dassault involvement and Support for Tejas project and many things were discussed.

We got 40 of those but Russia intervened with Mig 29 offered at half the price of Mirage. We bought 80+ of them eventually and Mirage was cancelled. But USSR collapse kind of ended Mig future with production spread among different new states.

Then came Sukhoi -27 and it goes on.

In short IAF had a good plan but got fcuked up every now and then by politics.

 

[MirageBlue]

Finally found confirmation that the Tejas Mk1 fleet is being equipped with jamming equipment! This was one of my biggest concerns with the 2 Tejas Mk1 squadrons that would be moving to the frontline to replace MiG-21 Bison squadrons. And the confirmation comes from none other than the ACM himself, who is the most reliable authority on this.


He also mentions that the IAF will consider more Tejas to augment the fleet after the 83 Tejas Mk1A are delivered.

ACM Bhadauria's interview - SP's Aviation - 09/2020

SP’s: Please indicate on the plans for:

• a: EW Jammers which are reportedly missing in Su-30 and LCA Mk1;
• b: Long range BVR air-to-air missile for Mirage 2000, and Sukhoi;
• c: Hawks in air to ground role.

CAS: The Su-30 MKI aircraft are equipped with EW capability which meets its operational roles.

The LCA aircraft fleet is also being equipped with jamming equipment. Astra BVR has been successfully tested on the Su-30 MKI and integration on the fleet is underway.

Mirage 2000 has been upgraded to fire the long range BVR missiles. The Hawks are currently used in a training role. Their utilisation during contingencies has been suitably catered in our operational plans.

and talk of possibly more LCAs..although he could be referring to the Tejas Mk2 since he doesn't mention it anywhere else.

SP’s: What all is being done to control the depleting number of fighter squadrons which are supposed to be 42 in number?

CAS: We are expecting the delivery of 24 remaining LCA aircraft to be completed in the next two to three years, after which the 83 LCA MK1A will start joining the IAF fleet. The two Rafale squadrons will be fully equipped in the meanwhile.

We could look at further LCA enhancements and procurement of the 114 MRFA through the Make in India to further augment the fighter strength.

AMCA programme is being vigorously pursued with the aircraft likely to be inducted from 2032 onwards or earlier based on D&D completion. To augment the existing fleet of Su-30 MKI and MiG-29 aircraft, AoN for 33 aircraft has been accorded and these will start flying with us in the next couple of years.

 

[Ar.gaurav28]

We had advantage of outgunning PAF in BVR till the arrival of AIM series.
That advantage kept PAF away during Kargil War.
I simply want that advantage to return.
Current Russian BVR are not sufficient.

Please understand the objective as su30mki was there to defend our bases not to charge on them!
they were holding themselves back and were supposed to fire on them only if any fighter was coming to atta our bases!
&
statistically speaking bvr missiles be it any with radar seeker have a low kill probability compared to heat seeking missile !
even the performance of meteor is unknown against a good 5th gen fighter!
stealth in fighter not only helps in being detected late but also in evading these missiles!
future I think is hypersonic & heatseeking missiles with extended ranges

 

[BON PLAN]

After Kargil war in 1999, the govt and IAF realised the quality of mirage 2000s but that time the production line was already stopped & rafale wasn’t even inducted by then!
MMRCA was released by UPA in 2007 & regardless of MMRCA if that time if UPA would have supported LCA we could have inducted it in as soon as 2011.
Thus wouldn’t have lost many pilots in mig21&29. Maybe wouldn’t have even needed the 36 rafale we just bought...
things like mk2 ,AMCA,TEDBF would already have a matured manufacturing industry!

The M2000 line was closed in 2007....
2007 - 1999 = 8 years. Indian govt made a huge error not to order some more, and specially not to purchase the M2000 line as suggested by Dassault... It was ignored to save the Tejas & HAL cases.
Just imagine IAF now with 150 M2000-5 ....