LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[omaebakabaka]

Our atgm program has faced challenges before. Air to air missile progresses because foreigners refused to integrate latest with our jets.

We have done rather well when we have been denied technology.

Anyway atgm are back on track with nag ready now and other atgm too in works include helina and sant.

I am all for it but I hope we don't see these gem of surprises swinging back at us like engines in these things are licensed or bought from some guy after few years...these sort of things demoralize lot of people

 

[IndianHawk]

I am all for it but I hope we don't see these gem of surprises swinging back at us like engines in these things are licensed or bought from some guy after few years...these sort of things demoralize lot of people

Developing everything in house is a long journey specially when domestic weapons are supposed to perform as good as foreign weapons which are in development for decades .

So some components may be foreign but it doesn't matter so as long we have the platform ip to be able to replace foreign components whenever indian alternative is ready.

 

[omaebakabaka]

Developing everything in house is a long journey specially when domestic weapons are supposed to perform as good as foreign weapons which are in development for decades .

So some components may be foreign but it doesn't matter so as long we have the platform ip to be able to replace foreign components whenever indian alternative is ready.

I am not that convinced as the fallacy of this argument is that we will never catch up in key things.....does not seem like an honest thing to say we are indigenous but engine is from somewhere else. What is the point and how will it help? If we are able to build rocket engines then I expect we have knowhow to build other slightly modified engines especially single use ones like missiles.....anyway I get your point but I am not comfortable with these surprises

 

[IndianHawk]

I am not that convinced as the fallacy of this argument is that we will never catch up in key things.....does not seem like an honest thing to say we are indigenous but engine is from somewhere else. What is the point and how will it help? If we are able to build rocket engines then I expect we have knowhow to build other slightly modified engines especially single use ones like missiles.....anyway I get your point but I am not comfortable with these surprises

Aircraft engine is one of the most difficult things to build in our world. Rocket engines are easy in comparison . Only 4 countries can properly build engines usa , France ,uk and russia . China is still learning and so are we.

It takes multiple decade of research and investment in 20-30 Billion dollars develop competitive modern engjnes.
It
And if your engine is not upto global standards than your product will be substandard as well.

Look at Tejas vs jf17. It is because of f404 that tejas is vastly superior to jf17 and will forever remain superior.

We are slowly covering the gap with engine for most of the missiles already indiginised and lots of development is happening from tank engines to helicopter engines and turbofans to turbojets.

But as I said it's a long journey . I suspect we will be mostly independent once amca engine is developed but that might take 2 decades without foreign collaboration. With foreign involvement we can shorten it to a decade.

 

[omaebakabaka]

Aircraft engine is one of the most difficult things to build in our world. Rocket engines are easy in comparison . Only 4 countries can properly build engines usa , France ,uk and russia . China is still learning and so are we.

It takes multiple decade of research and investment in 20-30 Billion dollars develop competitive modern engjnes.
It
And if your engine is not upto global standards than your product will be substandard as well.

Look at Tejas vs jf17. It is because of f404 that tejas is vastly superior to jf17 and will forever remain superior.

We are slowly covering the gap with engine for most of the missiles already indiginised and lots of development is happening from tank engines to helicopter engines and turbofans to turbojets.

But as I said it's a long journey . I suspect we will be mostly independent once amca engine is developed but that might take 2 decades without foreign collaboration. With foreign involvement we can shorten it to a decade.

Yes thats why I said missile engines which are one time use and the whole point of IGMP that is close to 35 years now is to get into that club and yet we see all sorts of confusion and not a single branded engine from DRDO....I can understand the aircraft side and fine with that strategy until kaveri takes off....by this point missile engines should be mostly domestic knowhow

 

[IndianHawk]

Yes thats why I said missile engines which are one time use and the whole point of IGMP that is close to 35 years now is to get into that club and yet we see all sorts of confusion and not a single branded engine from DRDO....I can understand the aircraft side and fine with that strategy until kaveri takes off....by this point missile engines should be mostly domestic knowhow

Missiile engines are mostly domestic. All strategic missiiles have indian engines.

Now Manik engine is also ready for subsonic cruise and liquid ramjet is almost ready for supersonic cruise missiles.

Dual pulse and sfdr are getting ready for air to air missiles.

 

[omaebakabaka]

Missiile engines are mostly domestic. All strategic missiiles have indian engines.

Now Manik engine is also ready for subsonic cruise and liquid ramjet is almost ready for supersonic cruise missiles.

Dual pulse and sfdr are getting ready for air to air missiles.

That's why I termed it confusion and bad demoralizing surprises....prithvi2, bramhos and who knows what others ones have foreign engines. I hope the new missiles like Astra mk2 come with our own if not already.

 

[cannonfodder]

Tejas was conceived as point defence fighter. These are real good developments like testing python/derby-er to add to arsenal. Before this - for couple of years now (observation) IAF had been rather testing Tejas for ground attack related operations rather than prioritizing these Air-to-air weapon arsenal.

Anyone knows the reason for that.

 

[omaebakabaka]

Tejas was conceived as point defence fighter. These are real good developments like testing python/derby to add to arsenal. Before this - for couple of years now (observation) IAF had been rather testing Tejas for ground attack related operations rather than prioritizing these Air-to-air weapon arsenal.

Anyone knows the reason for that.

Multirole is kinda thing with AESA now but also typical Indian attitude to do too many things....I would rather prefer faster deployment in air to air role than being the optimal fighter that it can be..

 

[MonaLazy]

Anyone knows the reason for that.

Isn't that the general progression in the life of any new fighter? Start with dumb bombs and then graduate to more capable weaponry?

But for a long time the developers were coming up short on customer's expectations- pathetic work culture, poor national aerospace infra & sanctions to blame in different measure. However the present central govt has self reliance in focus- so threats were made, money was spent, people in charge made more accountable including finding middle ground between the customer & developer in Mk1A. It's work in progress but the customer is now happier.

I think the real change in IAF perception of the air craft was Ex Gaganshakti '18. Tejas had the best range scores and high availability.


According to AM Nambiar, AOC-in-C, Eastern Air Command, Indian Air force, the nine HAL Tejas fielded during Operation Gaganshakti had the best range scores. Yes, indigenous products can be good.

Tejas is a plane designed by pilots for pilots, has carefree handling and is a delight to fly ( -the last as per many test pilot reports in media/social media).

Local efforts to make AESA radar, IRST, EW systems and other sensors are also close to maturing in the next few years- so other than engine which comes from General Electric of US mostly all other parts (esp. those critical to the plane) will be local. Now, which air force in the world would not want a system like that which punches above its weight, comes at a relatively cheap cost, can be upgraded at will and ensures strategic autonomy for us? Tejas has already fathered the Mk2 & grandfathered the TEDBF and AMCA. There is a Manned-Unmanned CATS warrior system already under development around Tejas as the mother ship.

 

[cannonfodder]

Isn't that the general progression in the life of any new fighter? Start with dumb bombs and then graduate to more capable weaponry?

For point defence AC, the priority should have been arming with potent A2A weapons than testing A2G weaponry. Yes Tejas can be used for ground attacks no doubt & it can be used as multi-role but I am just noting that focus was changed last couple of years.

 

[MonaLazy]

point defence AC

Please point me to the source of that assertion. I just looked up the designing agency website- https://www.ada.gov.in/ada/default/files/ADA-Tejas-Brochure-Final.pdf

They seem to think it is multi role.

 

[cannonfodder]

Please point me to the source of that assertion. I just looked up the designing agency website- https://www.ada.gov.in/ada/default/files/ADA-Tejas-Brochure-Final.pdf

They seem to think it is multi role.
View attachment 91910

I am not saying its not multi-role AC , it is meant to replacement for mig 21 squadrons.

 

[omaebakabaka]

I am not saying its not multi-role AC , it is meant to replacement for mig 21 squadrons.

As of now it is not even serious in single role, this thing should have been deployed as soon as it attained minimums in point defense role.

 

[Tang]

That's why I termed it confusion and bad demoralizing surprises....prithvi2, bramhos and who knows what others ones have foreign engines. I hope the new missiles like Astra mk2 come with our own if not already.

As per the Head of Brahmos department, we can make whole of Brahmos in house now,
But we would be breaking the deal with Russians,
What we can do is create our own version of advance brahmos without the help of Brahmos venture and I think this is what we are doing.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

As per the Head of Brahmos department, we can make whole of Brahmos in house now,
But we would be breaking the deal with Russians,
What we can do is create our own version of advance brahmos without the help of Brahmos venture and I think this is what we are doing.

Just change the name of the missile. Then we can proceed to make the missile.

Chinese do it all the time.

 

[omaebakabaka]

Just change the name of the missile. Then we can proceed to make the missile.

Chinese do it all the time.

No need to break our contracts, if we did indeed attain capability then we should have no problems in moving fast on other missiles...let the actions speak louder. If we waited this long then no harm in waiting a bit more to see if its real or just another misdirection

 

[Lonewolf]

No need to break our contracts, if we did indeed attain capability then we should have no problems in moving fast on other missiles...let the actions speak louder. If we waited this long then no harm in waiting a bit more to see if its real or just another misdirection

Lfrj is in development ,first star will come followed by lfrj missile .

That's our own brahmos ,but somewhat cheaper

 

[onlinpunit]

And why do you think money wasn't spent to develop or fund project to get high-powered engines for Marut ?

They were being planned to be dumped for a new fighter jet.

We should have invested first to make engines..

 

[onlinpunit]

It should be a capability available even with the IOC Tejas Mk1s. All of it is software related, the differences between IOC and FOC to allow for BVR capability.

They got SPJ in FOC..Right ?