LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[Killbot]

THAT'S YOUR PERSONAL OPINION.

An operational Tejas would not exist if we had prioritised our effort on Kaveri (money cannot hasten engine development, as the Chinks found out)... If imported engines weren't used we'd be tampering with engines upto 2030, instead today we're designing TEDBF from scratch in 1 year!

Engine development has got to happen down the line. But you're right, we wouldn't be where we are now had we not imported the engine.

having a 110 kn engine will be a bigger achievement

We can't afford impressive right now. We need to prioritize. Fulfill the minimum requirements.

 

[Bleh]

having a 110 kn engine will be a bigger achievement

Yes. And our present approach to achieve indigenous engine is perfect & more importantly, achievable... A ToT to manufacture the 300-odd india customised F414-TV for the MWF & AMCA Mark1, would be better.

But importing whatever the fuck components that we can't develop in time, is the right way to go indigenous. Subsystems can be replaced later.

 

[warriorextreme]

Yes. And our present approach to achieve indigenous engine is perfect & more importantly, achievable... A ToT to manufacture the 300-odd india customised F414-TV for the MWF & AMCA Mark1, would be better.

But importing whatever the fuck components that we can't develop in time, is the right way to go indigenous. Subsystems can be replaced later.

Any specific reasons that we did not go ahead with M88 for Tejas MK2, TEDBF? It makes sense logistically and also from future perspective if we decide to go ahead with Safran for engine complex.

 

[Suryavanshi]

Any specific reasons that we did not go ahead with M88 for Tejas MK2, TEDBF? It makes sense logistically and also from future perspective if we decide to go ahead with Safran for engine complex.

M88 weight 900 kg Thrust 50/75
F404 weight 1035 kg Thrust 48/78
F414 weight 1100 kg Thrust 57/97

I think they will go for F414 in TBDEF.

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

Yes. And our present approach to achieve indigenous engine is perfect & more importantly, achievable... A ToT to manufacture the 300-odd india customised F414-TV for the MWF & AMCA Mark1, would be better.

But importing whatever the fuck components that we can't develop in time, is the right way to go indigenous. Subsystems can be replaced later.

I think we should continue using the dry version of Kaveri in big numbers in drones like UCAV Ghatak with time our scientists will gain experience

 

[Bleh]

I think we should continue using the dry version of Kaveri in big numbers in drones like UCAV Ghatak with time our scientists will gain experience

That's exactly the plan, if I remember correctly.

Any specific reasons that we did not go ahead with M88 for Tejas MK2, TEDBF? It makes sense logistically and also from future perspective if we decide to go ahead with Safran for engine complex.

M88 simply has lower thrust. It's presently lighter, but will get heavier if we attempted to get a 100kN version (this might still happen)... But that'd still take time, F414 was available & if invested on instead of M88, would give 115kN yielding EPE version.

 

[Suryavanshi]

That's exactly the plan, if I remember correctly.

Alternatively we can keep the Kaveri project alive and use the TOT from rolls Royce to perfect it further

 

[Annaa]

How to share images in this forum

 

[warriorextreme]

That's exactly the plan, if I remember correctly.



M88 simply has lower thrust. It's presently lighter, but will get heavier if we attempted to get a 100kN version (this might still happen)... But that'd still take time, F414 was available & if invested on instead of M88, would give 115kN yielding EPE version.

But it works well for Rafale right and Rafale is not underpowered right?

 

[ladder]

That's exactly the plan, if I remember correctly.



M88 simply has lower thrust. It's presently lighter, but will get heavier if we attempted to get a 100kN version (this might still happen)... But that'd still take time, F414 was available & if invested on instead of M88, would give 115kN yielding EPE version.

Also, to add to the above, F414 has a lot of stakeholders, the Super Hornet, Saab Gripen, LCA Mk-2 and in future Korean 5th Gen, AMCA and TEDBF. Thus, developer will have a genuine interest to develop an EPE version.

PS,
The EPE version is probably still named GE-414-400 ( contracted for Super Hornet) in twin configuration a nd GE-414g ( for Saab Gripen) in single engine configuration.

 

[Bleh]

But it works well for Rafale right and Rafale is not underpowered right?

(Check @Bhumihar's post above^) A single M88 has lower thrust that even an F404! So it couldn't even achieve desired T/W in Tejas, let alone MWF.

And with twin-F414 the TEDBF will have 15kN more dry thrust & 40kN more wet thrust than Rafale.

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

The front fuselage of TEDBF looks like F22 Raptor it has geometric stealth No 4th generation aircraft in the world has this kind of design

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

That's exactly the plan, if I remember correctly.



M88 simply has lower thrust. It's presently lighter, but will get heavier if we attempted to get a 100kN version (this might still happen)... But that'd still take time, F414 was available & if invested on instead of M88, would give 115kN yielding EPE version.

They can use the Kaveri with wet thrust later in same GHATAK UCAV

 

[warriorextreme]

(Check @Bhumihar's post above^) A single M88 has lower thrust that even an F404! So it couldn't even achieve desired T/W in Tejas, let alone MWF.

And with twin-F414 the TEDBF will have 15kN more dry thrust & 40kN more wet thrust than Rafale.

Yes statistically that makes sense but does it mean Rafale is underpowered because of M88 engines or there is more to it than just the pure thrust numbers?

 

[Bleh]

Yes statistically that makes sense but does it mean Rafale is underpowered because of M88 engines or there is more to it than just the pure thrust numbers?

No, but thrust is a factor.

Aerodynamics matter to determine drag. That's affected by aerofoil design & wing-size required to generate enough lift to haul the desired weight... However the thrust difference in TEDBF & Rafale is simply too much for the latter to match in performance.
TEDBF fuselage seems much longer & expected to carry more fuel.

How to share images in this forum

 

[Killbot]

The front fuselage of TEDBF looks like F22 Raptor it has geometric stealth No 4th generation aircraft in the world has this kind of design

I think we are trying to follow roughly the same concept as the J20. Frontal stealth only. Though i don't know if that will be very effective.
@Bleh?

 

[Bleh]

I think we are trying to follow roughly the same concept as the J20. Frontal stealth only. Though i don't know if that will be very effective.
@Bleh?

Can't say... No way to know.

 

[ladder]

Hope ADA design engineers and scientists talk to GE and check whether EPE engine requires additional air flow. As MWF is in design phase such things can be accommodated.

 

[Annaa]

No, but thrust is a factor.

Aerodynamics matter to determine drag. That's affected by aerofoil design & wing-size required to generate enough lift to haul the desired weight... However the thrust difference in TEDBF & Rafale is simply too much for the latter to match in performance.
TEDBF fuselage seems much longer & expected to carry more fuel.



View attachment 74859

But attached file or insert quotes does not show below the reply boxes

 

[Annaa]

Ya'll Nibbiars Ya Nibba you need atleast 10 post to insert a Image's Photograph's.

Ok thanks