LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[FalconSlayers]

I hear Astra mk2 is about to be tested from Su30mki

NOTAM issued 190 km.

 

[FalconSlayers]

NOTAM issued 190 km.

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

Astra MK2 the Beast with range of 190km , Meteor Range 150 km
Su30mki and mig29 will become far better after integration of these missiles

 

[Bleh]

Astra MK2 the Beast with range of 190km , Meteor Range 150 km

No, they keep some extra for technical reasons... Astra Mark2 max is officially 160km (though it might have more energy than Meteor at terminal phase due to dual-pulse).

 

[Shekhar Singh]

Then why we need astra mk3- sfdr( desi meteor)?

 

[Lonewolf]

Then why we need astra mk3- sfdr( desi meteor)?

Range of meteor is quite higher , similar to upcoming sfdr . What he might be comparing is nez of meteor vs advertising range of mk 2

 

[Killbot]

Range of meteor is quite higher , similar to upcoming sfdr . What he might be comparing is nez of meteor vs advertising range of mk 2

Neither's NEZ is known, but I'd say Meteor has higher one. Due to ramjet and all.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

I hear Astra mk2 is about to be tested from Su30mki

Yes, test is due in near future.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

With Astra Mk2, Brahmos NG, AESA and AESA Tejas shall be a mini Rafale.

 

[Bleh]

Neither's NEZ is known, but I'd say Meteor has higher one. Due to ramjet and all.

Range of meteor is quite higher , similar to upcoming sfdr . What he might be comparing is nez of meteor vs advertising range of mk 2

Then why we need astra mk3- sfdr( desi meteor)?

Neither is quite right. The reason is OPTIONS. To understand this you need to know the functioning as well as technical difference between dual-pulse & SFDR...

Astra Mark2 will accelerate very quickly & expend it's booster, then it'll fly while losing energy to drag. At terminal stage it'll get a second boost & to gain some energy.
Astra Mark3 accelerates at a much much slower rate, but will do it constantly through ⅔rd its flight-time. So further it goes, more energy it gains (before it runs out of fuel about halfway its max range & starts decelerating) .

So it's a matter of tactical choice which BVRAAM a pilot should use, depending on the range your target is at. Dual pulse is a bit better at engaging target at the further end of it's max range (which is lesser as it has to carry fuel till then), but SFDR will had much larger NEZ & at 100-150km (between ½-¾ its max.range) it has a huge amount of energy that allows it to do hard maneuvres (but lose it at range of 200km+ like any other BVRAAM).


Bujhe?

 

[Killbot]

Neither is quite right. The reason is OPTIONS. To understand this you need to know the functioning as well as technical difference between dual-pulse & SFDR...

Astra Mark2 will accelerate very quickly & expend it's booster, then it'll fly while losing energy to drag. At terminal stage it'll get a second boost & to gain some energy.
Astra Mark3 accelerates at a much much slower rate, but will do it constantly through ⅔rd its flight-time. So further it goes, more energy it gains (before it runs out of fuel about halfway its max range & starts decelerating) .

So it's a matter of tactical choice which BVRAAM a pilot should use, depending on the range your target is at. Dual pulse is a bit better at engaging target at the further end of it's max range (which is lesser as it has to carry fuel till then), but SFDR will had much larger NEZ & at 100-150km (between ½-¾ its max.range) it has a huge amount of energy that allows it to do hard maneuvres (but lose it at range of 200km+ like any other BVRAAM).


Bujhe?

So in what situations would you use dual pulse and ramjet BVRAAM respectively?

Dual pulse would have higher terminal energy hence would be effective all the way to its max range and ramjet would have the same NEZ as the dual's max range. Same tactical situation, right?

If I made a mistake please correct.

 

[Shekhar Singh]

Neither is quite right. The reason is OPTIONS. To understand this you need to know the functioning as well as technical difference between dual-pulse & SFDR...

Astra Mark2 will accelerate very quickly & expend it's booster, then it'll fly while losing energy to drag. At terminal stage it'll get a second boost & to gain some energy.
Astra Mark3 accelerates at a much much slower rate, but will do it constantly through ⅔rd its flight-time. So further it goes, more energy it gains (before it runs out of fuel about halfway its max range & starts decelerating) .

So it's a matter of tactical choice which BVRAAM a pilot should use, depending on the range your target is at. Dual pulse is a bit better at engaging target at the further end of it's max range (which is lesser as it has to carry fuel till then), but SFDR will had much larger NEZ & at 100-150km (between ½-¾ its max.range) it has a huge amount of energy that allows it to do hard maneuvres (but lose it at range of 200km+ like any other BVRAAM).


Bujhe?

Boojhne ko boojhiye rahe hain bhai ji. But I think that cost is also a factor. Despite of lover NEZ, two dual pulse bvr missiles will be more effective and cheaper as well considering 25cr rupies price of one meteor and 6.5cr for one Astra.

 

[Bleh]

So in what situations would you use dual pulse and ramjet BVRAAM respectively?

Dual pulse would have higher terminal energy hence would be effective all the way to its max range and ramjet would have the same NEZ as the dual's max range. Same tactical situation, right?

If I made a mistake please correct.

I included that... If enemy is between (read: to be intercepted between) 100-140km you want SFDR, no question. It'll have waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more energy at its peak, than whatever Mark2's 2nd pulse can recover.

But before & beyond that range, ie 60-100km & 140-160km, there you want dual pulse. There its 2nd pulse can achieve more energy that the SFDR will possess at that range (which has now either not gained peak speed or have stated losing it after).

And at medium range, ie <60km, you want top user Astra-IR. Its passive guide will give off no warnings & at half its max.range the Astra Mark1 platform will have plenty of energy.

So 60-100km is best BVR kill range. Near equal effectiveness of both... Similarly between 160-200km, you're just wasting taxpayer money.

Despite of lover NEZ, two dual pulse bvr missiles will be more effective and cheaper as well considering 25cr rupies price of one meteor and 6.5cr for one Astra.

Kill guarantee is a big factor too.. The target is always costlier, you'll want SFDR is small numbers.


PS: Guys the above is a rough explanation. Plz don't chew my ass about details.

 

[Flying Dagger]

So in what situations would you use dual pulse and ramjet BVRAAM respectively?

Dual pulse would have higher terminal energy hence would be effective all the way to its max range and ramjet would have the same NEZ as the dual's max range. Same tactical situation, right?

If I made a mistake please correct.

Cost of Ramjet will be more .

The NEZ of Dual pulse will likely be around 20-30 km while of Ramjet Asktra mk3 / SFDR will be over 50 km.

This also depends on various altitude missile is launched from and if it's a tail chase or head on.

These factors will come into play while choosing the missile.

If I had to take out slow moving drones etc than Astra mk1/2 will be enough as they'll be able to take them down at larger distances with less cost.

While for a fighter jet Astra mk3 will be used more for medium to long range, apart from IIR missiles which are tougher to dodge for CCM

Missiles with TVC will be used for CCM too like MICA RF.

In future we will see missiles with dual seeker too .

So many combos depending on the target cost and effectiveness etc will be used.

 

[Lonewolf]

Cost of Ramjet will be more .

The NEZ of Dual pulse will likely be around 20-30 km while of Ramjet Asktra mk3 / SFDR will be over 50 km.

This also depends on various altitude missile is launched from and if it's a tail chase or head on.

These factors will come into play while choosing the missile.

If I had to take out slow moving drones etc than Astra mk1/2 will be enough as they'll be able to take them down at larger distances with less cost.

While for a fighter jet Astra mk3 will be used more for medium to long range, apart from IIR missiles which are tougher to dodge for CCM

Missiles with TVC will be used for CCM too like MICA RF.

In future we will see missiles with dual seeker too .

So many combos depending on the target cost and effectiveness etc will be used.

Do sfdr project have capability of ramjet based awacs killers . There are lot of fanboys giving lot of misinformation about it ?

 

[aviationgeek]

dual plus motor has more advantage when it comes to medium range 60-100

 

[Flying Dagger]

Do sfdr project have capability of ramjet based awacs killers . There are lot of fanboys giving lot of misinformation about it ?

Then why are you expecting an answer from me?

I will only guess and tell. But truth is

No SFDR isn't an AWACS killer unless AWACS make a mistake and comes under its range.

But at the same time we don't know the range of SFDR.

We have a conventional AWACS killer though courtesy Russia it will be converted into RAMJET later whether it will be russian project or joint one Don't know.

 

[Bleh]

dual plus motor has more advantage when it comes to medium range 60-100

Exactly

secondly in bvr combat along with range tactics also mattets, PAF hit su30 with amraam in 40km range but r77 despite range of 80km+ couldn't perform

“An Avenger’s last fall”

A detailed account of Operation Swiftretort and evidence regarding the shootdown of Su30 (Avenger1) by PAF

ahsanawan1225.medium.com

Not really.

This is an issue that nullifies all theoreticals. Radar guided BVRAAMs give away themselves to anything with RWR & are notoriously easy to jam of misguide... No enemy will counter them well manoeuvres alone. So, this talk of NEZ is pointless. Superior programming will triumph.

 

[warriorextreme]

AI2021: Formal contract of 83 LCA Tejas, inauguration of 3rd LCA assembly line and clearance for the LUH soon – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

Article mentions that all LCA MK1 will be delivered by 2028-29. By this rate IAF and IN will get MK2 TEDBF by who knows when.

 

[WarriorIndian]

AI2021: Formal contract of 83 LCA Tejas, inauguration of 3rd LCA assembly line and clearance for the LUH soon – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

Article mentions that all LCA MK1 will be delivered by 2028-29. By this rate IAF and IN will get MK2 TEDBF by who knows when.

LCA MK1 A deliveries will be completed by 2028. The Airforce is going to get their 1st aircraft by 2024 and with around 16 aircrafts per year, the deliveries should get completed by 2028-2029 .