LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[WARREN SS]

I disagree with your assessment of the situation, mainly because I also know of the PLAAF's (and PAF's) current limitations despite the CCP's propaganda. The PLAAF does not currently have any 5th generation fighters. The J-20 is a somewhat reduced RCS 4th generation aircraft at best (and can be tracked and shot down by IAF fighters such as the Rafale and SU-30MKI). The J-20 is further limited by the outdated technology of its avionics, and its underpowered Russian engines. The Rafale's avionics are far superior to anything on the J-20, including radar, osf, ecm and weapons. IAF has the capability to jam PLAAF aircraft radars and air-to-air missiles (which have avionics copied from downgraded Russian avionics from the 1990s, giving the IAF the advantage). It is not just me saying this: Talk to retired air marshals on twitter who have had access to intelligence reports, and they will confirm all of this.

If the J-20 Stealth Fighter Is So Amazing Why Is China Buying Russia's Su-35?

A really good question.

nationalinterest.org

IAF's Sukhoi Su-30 MKIs can detect and track Chinese Chengdu J-20 stealth fighters

The IAF Sukhoi Su-30MKIs on a sortie in the Northeast managed to track Chengdu J-20 fighters being operated by the People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) over Tibet.

zeenews.india.com

Then there is the intelligence assessment of how many fighters PLAAF is capable of fielding (or willing to field) against the IAF while also dealing with enemies on its east coast.

The bulk of the PLAAF fighters (including J-10s and flanker copies) have serious reliability issues, especially with the Russian engines on their single engine fighters (the Chinese engines are too unreliable to be put on operational aircraft). They had to cut flight training of their pilots because of too many crashes (including J-10s and flanker copies), which means their pilots are poorly trained. In any conflict with repeated sorties, I expect J-10s to crash left and right due to engine issues. Coming to PAF, over 40 percent of PAF JF-17s have been grounded due to reliability issues, and they are also single engine fighters with Russian engines:

Over 40℅ of 'Made In China' PAF JF-17 Grounded - IFE News Network

Share It ASAPTweetMade In China JF-17 Grounded due to structural and technical Issues Pakistani Airforce frontline fighters are facing critical issues, due to which 40℅ of JF-17 grounded. The PAC JF-17 Thunder, or CAC FC-1 Xiaolong, is a lightweight, single-engine, multi-role combat aircraft...

ifenewsnetwork.com

PLA navy J-15 fighters have very serious issues with both engines and flight control software, causing at least 4 out of 20 aircraft to crash (and even that is only the ones that we know of, since PLA hides the truth):

China's Carrier-Based Fighter Jets Keep Crashing And Burning

China is developing a new carrier-based fighter aircraft to succeed the Shenyang J-15 Flying Shark.The J-15—which is an unlicensed Chinese development

taskandpurpose.com

I think most people overestimate PLAAF/PLA navy capabilities because the CCP/PLA have a really good propaganda/psy-ops machine.

But even if we are talking about building up numbers, the Tejas is an excellent choice. I can field 4 to 5 Tejas with AESA and integrated ECM for the cost of 1 Rafale. Tejas is needed to make up the numbers on the western border, where most of the targets are at ranges of less than 500 km. The Tejas is also capable of operating from high altitude airfields due to its low wing loading (lower than Rafale and Mirage 2000). It also has a very reliable engine. It can be used for air defence and close air support role, as well as in hitting several short and medium range targets when operating from Ladakh, Sikkim and Arunachal/Assam.

This is not to say that we don't need long range fighters like the Rafales. The Rafale's deep strike capability with its stealthy cruise missile is extremely useful. The Su-30MKI with the Brahmos is also a very useful platform for hitting high value targets.

Don't Post more here there is a relevant thread


Post it here from now on or Mods Will take action

Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

Indian Air force C4ISR capabilities - A year end round up Beyond the accretion of new fighter and transport aircraft, it is the on-going digitization of the workings of the Indian Air force (IAF) that is the signature element of its transformation. Adopting information and communication...

defenceforumindia.com

 

[FalconZero]

These are not Assumptions But well calculated war Planning


for example
LCA MK1A is Light Weight Category fighter While J-10C is medium weight category fighter

J-10C has Powerful Engine That automatically means more Peak power for Radars
Its Will have more Detection Range It can be compared To MWF not MK1A

MK1A has Max detection range of 150 km due less engine power of GE404

J-11C will has AESA no less than detection range of 400 km With Twin engines Its Heavy class fighter
armed With Meteor class BVR Superior to our current MKI also there is
Shenyang J-16


Basically Upgrading MKI means less Availability ratio

You missing Many things

Only If We Will have 150 (114+36 Rafale's by 2030)
only then have some chance I am hoping That navy Will get 57 SH then Will Increase our chances

Why are you comparing Light weight with Medium weight in the first place? Also, trusting numbers by chinese lol...Also, Mk2 will have have more powerful GE414 engine. Also, may i have source for max detection range of mk1a to be 150km?

Upradation is a continuous process we are not going to ground whole fleet amidst war. Rafales deal will be extended 100%, we are going to order 36 more of them so total 72 rafales + SH reserved for Navy so not counting that + MKIs + Mig UPGs (Assuming rumours related to them being transferred or will be transferred in future is true).

Chinese clones are highly exaggerated like their j20, i don't have time to go case by case basis but take example of j15 which crashes like it's everyday thing, many jets which have chinese engines are struggling, their specifications about Pl15 is exaggerated.

I understand that enemy shouldn't be underestimated but most of the problems which you are pointing at are not related to Tejas program, it was asked to replace migs, jags, mirage, can take on most of the adversaries aircraft, in case of Pakistan, can totally fulfil the demand of point defence, with AESA and BVRAAMs it will be more powerful.

Let Pray LCA not get Stuck by CAATSA Sanctions Which already hanging on our heads

I Can talk In detail about Shortfall of IAF but its not relevant thread

And you think that going for SH and American f35 or being dependant on them is a good idea despite this? You are already seeing the Russian leveraging our dependant on them and you that's a good idea to import from them?

 

[johnq]

Don't Post more here there is a relevant thread


Post it here from now on or Mods Will take action

Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

Indian Air force C4ISR capabilities - A year end round up Beyond the accretion of new fighter and transport aircraft, it is the on-going digitization of the workings of the Indian Air force (IAF) that is the signature element of its transformation. Adopting information and communication...

defenceforumindia.com

If you go off topic and hijack a Tejas thread by going off topic and making claims about the PLAAF's and PAF's capabilities without proof for the last 2 pages while all actual evidence points to the contrary, then I will post a rebuttal of your claims based on facts.

 

[WARREN SS]

Why are you comparing Light weight with Medium weight in the first place? Also, trusting numbers by chinese lol...Also, Mk2 will have have more powerful GE414 engine. Also, may i have source for max detection range of mk1a to be 150km?

Because they J-10 In huge numbers

See 2052 detection range for 1m2

EL/M-2052 Elta HAL radar is concerned, it is a GaAS-based radar with 1500 TRMs. It can track 64 targets simultaneously. It has a range of 290 km in the Air to Sea Mode while in the Air to Air Mode, it is rumored to be between 150 to 200 km for a 1 sq.m RCS for 1500 TRMs

LCA MK1 A has Scalable version Which has not more than 500 TRM modules With Peak power of Max 3Kw -4 kw

 

[WARREN SS]

If you go off topic and hijack a Tejas thread by making claims about the PLAAF's and PAF's capabilities without proof for the last 2 pages while all actual evidence points to the contrary, then I will post a rebuttal of your claims based on facts.

Because all My points Revolve around LCA

You given Nothing Any Short of rebuttal All you Posted are Source based random blogs And claims
That has zero Technical arguments but Biased Western Self styled experts Who are Demeaning China just because they are Communist

Go See Who Tops Published Scientific Research for Patents then come And debate Me

 

[FalconZero]

Because they J-10 In huge numbers

See 2052 detection range for 1m2

EL/M-2052 Elta HAL radar is concerned, it is a GaN-based radar with 1500 TRMs. It can track 64 targets simultaneously. It has a range of 290 km in the Air to Sea Mode while in the Air to Air Mode, it is rumored to be between 150 to 200 km for a 1 sq.m RCS for 1500 TRMs

LCA MK1 A has Scalable version Which has not more than 500 TRM modules With Peak power of Max 3Kw -4 kw

Almost half of those j10s are old ones like j10a which have multi mode radars which can track 10 targets atmost 2 can be engaged not AESA radars, remaining have PESA radars which chinks claim to be AESA.

I will not go into the operationability of the engines, this is the state of chink lies.

Coming to mk1a radar, i would love to see some source on that.

 

[johnq]

Because they J-10 In huge numbers

See 2052 detection range for 1m2

EL/M-2052 Elta HAL radar is concerned, it is a GaN-based radar with 1500 TRMs. It can track 64 targets simultaneously. It has a range of 290 km in the Air to Sea Mode while in the Air to Air Mode, it is rumored to be between 150 to 200 km for a 1 sq.m RCS for 1500 TRMs

LCA MK1 A has Scalable version Which has not more than 500 TRM modules With Peak power of Max 3Kw -4 kw

Watch the following video to understand about power consumption of radars vs the TR module argument put up by brainwashed PLAAF fanboys:

The J-10 engine has reliability issues, and being a single engine fighter, that is a death sentence if the engine fails. The Tejas engine is far more reliable. The PLAAF also has to divide up its fighters between its eastern coast and other border areas. Then operating from high altitude airfields also severely handicaps the PLAAF in terms of weapons loadout, as well as fighter maintenance issues.

 

[johnq]

Because all My points Revolve around LCA

You given Nothing Any Short of rebuttal All you Posted are Source based random blogs And claims
That has zero Technical arguments but Biased Western Self styled experts Who are Demeaning China just because they are Communist

Go See Who Tops Published Scientific Research for Patents then come And debate Me

That is the kind of propaganda that is posted by CCP drones; off topic BS about patents and such. The sources I have posted are far more credible than the propaganda from shiny PLAAF brochures recited by CCP drones without any common sense or evidence.

 

[WARREN SS]

Watch the following video to understand about power consumption of radars vs the TR module argument put up by brainwashed PLAAF fanboys:

What is Source Of his information ???

I mean All I claims based random Blogs

He says vs She Says

 

[johnq]

What is Source Of his information ???

I mean All I claims based random Blogs

He says vs She Says

Listen to what he says about power consumption vs the amount of power generated by engines. It's common sense. It's why the whole TR module argument is bogus. I can find some article that discusses this also, but then you will simply dismiss it as western propaganda.

 

[WARREN SS]

Listen to what he says about power consumption vs the amount of power generated by engines. It's common sense. I can find some article that discusses this also, but then you will simply dismiss it as western propaganda.

Please Put forward It

You dismissing A Economic Giant That is Second largest Economy in the World

There R&D spending Matches almost to USA

Top countries by gross R&D expenditure worldwide 2020 | Statista

The statistic reveals the top 10 countries by gross research and development (R&D) expenditure worldwide in 2020, based on purchasing power parity calculations.

www.statista.com

China Becomes Top Filer of International Patents in 2019

Demand for WIPO’s global intellectual property services reached record heights in 2019.

www.wipo.int

 

[WARREN SS]

Almost half of those j10s are old ones like j10a which have multi mode radars which can track 10 targets atmost 2 can be engaged not AESA radars, remaining have PESA radars which chinks claim to be AESA.
View attachment 71302
I will not go into the operationability of the engines, this is the state of chink lies.

Coming to mk1a radar, i would love to see some source on that.

That is old post

 

[Tridev123]

Let us put trust in the IAF which must have war gamed any future air war with the PLAAF. The figures on the total combat strength of the PLAAF do not give the correct picture. The actual number of fighters that they can deploy against India while simultaneously taking care of the Taiwan /US threat is the only relevant factor.

Before quantifying the PLAAF threat we first need to decide how much they can throw against us from the Tibet /Xinjiang region.

I believe that the West still has a lead over China in aircraft avionics and radars. If anybody believes that the Chinese have overtaken the West in this area please justify the assumption.

Regarding jet engines China is still struggling to manufacture reliable high performance turbofans. The West has a clear lead.

Chinese Air to Air missiles while looking impressive on paper are untested in actual combat. When was the last time China fired AAM's against an adversary. Even India does better. The R73 CCM had two confirmed kills. When a Pak navy Atlantic aircraft was shot down and when the Pak F16 was shot down after the Balakot air strike.

I would put my money on the Meteor over the Chinese PL15 or PL12. The French Air Force has more combat experience than the PLAAF.

If the Chinese really believed that they possess an overwhelming advantage over the IAF they would not have hesitated to go on the offensive on the border. We are witnessing a stalemate like situation on the border.

Why bring in the J20 into Tibet if the rest of the PLAAF can steamroll the IAF. They will never put the J20 into combat now as even a single loss at the hands of the Rafale will shatter the PLAAF image. Because the J20 is the shining crown of the Chinese aerospace industry. Its loss would severely undermine confidence.

 

[WARREN SS]

Chinese Air to Air missiles while looking impressive on paper are untested in actual combat. When was the last time China fired AAM's against an adversary. Even India does better. The R73 CCM had two confirmed kills. When a Pak navy Atlantic aircraft was shot down and when the Pak F16 was shot down after the Balakot air strike.

All there missiles are Russian basically With Improvement Vympel NPO & agat has assisted Development p-12

 

[johnq]

Please Put forward It

You dismissing A Economic Giant That is Second largest Economy in the World

There R&D spending Matches almost to USA

Top countries by gross R&D expenditure worldwide 2020 | Statista

The statistic reveals the top 10 countries by gross research and development (R&D) expenditure worldwide in 2020, based on purchasing power parity calculations.

www.statista.com

China Becomes Top Filer of International Patents in 2019

Demand for WIPO’s global intellectual property services reached record heights in 2019.

www.wipo.int

LOL that is exactly the kind of off topic CCP propaganda posted by drones when faced with arguments based on facts that are easy for everyone to see. PLAAF limitations arise from the defence technology sanctions placed on them by all major defence technology exporters. Even Russia doesn't trust them with their latest technology and only sells them outdated and downgraded weaponry.

Fact 1: There have been several crashes of PLAAF's flanker copies (also J-15s of PLA navy) as well as J-10s (including 1 that killed the first female J-10 pilot) due to engine issues. This would be a death sentence if J-10's Russian engines fail when they are forced to do repeated sorties from high altitude airfields during war.

Fact 2: The Chinese bought the SU-35 from Russia even as the J-20 was becoming operational, and they are planning to buy more. The SU-35 comes with a PESA radar based on Russian radar technology from the 1990s; the version sold to China had an even more downgraded version of this radar and other avionics, because the Russians don't trust the Chinese IP thieves. If the Chinese already had advanced modern avionics on the J-10 and J-20, why buy a Russian fighter with outdated and downgraded avionics?

Fact 3: The J-20 has been repeatedly tracked by IAF fighter radars. This is because China does not have the technology to hide the J-20 radar or canopy from being tracked by enemy radar. The canards of the J-20 are also detrimental to stealth due to them being radar resonance hotspots. The Russian engines on the J-20 also lack stealth, and make the J-20 severely underpowered so it needs to use its afterburner to turn. The cracks appearing on over 40 percent JF-17s exported to Pakistan give further evidence of how limited Chinese materials science currently is. Even the US had issues with making durable stealth in the F-35 when the program was delayed by 2 years due to g-force related cracks. And we are supposed to believe that China (which supposedly stole technology from US via hackers) was successful in operationalizing J-20 2 years ahead of the F-35's problems without any issues? Give me a break. That is why it makes sense that the J-20 is just a propaganda/psy ops barbie doll fighter for brainwashed CCP drones, and why IAF fighters keep tracking it.

 

[johnq]

All there missiles are Russian basically With Improvement Vympel NPO & agat has assisted Development p-12

View attachment 71317

And that is how I know that the IAF can jam these missiles. The Russians don't trust the Chinese IP thieves, hence they always sell them downgraded versions of their technology. All PLAAF missiles are based on downgraded "dumbed down" versions of Russian missiles, which are also behind western technology by 2 decades.
Meanwhile IAF has jammers based on latest western technology.

 

[WARREN SS]

There have been several crashes of PLAAF's flanker copies (also J-15s of PLA navy) as well as J-10s (including 1 that killed the first female J-10 pilot) due to engine issues. This would be a death sentence if J-10's Russian engines fail when they are forced to do repeated sorties from high altitude airfields during war.

Source ??? of this news

The Chinese bought the SU-35 from Russia even as the J-20 was becoming operational, and they are planning to buy more. The SU-35 comes with a PESA radar based on Russian radar technology from the 1990s; the version sold to China had an even more downgraded version of this radar and other avionics, because the Russians don't trust the Chinese IP thieves. If the Chinese already had advanced modern avionics on the J-10 and J-20, why buy a Russian fighter with outdated and downgraded avionics?

That is Chinese Reverse Engineering 101
They Buy It reverse Engineer It Like they Bought S-400

They bought Su-30 Now they Copied it And created J-16

Same With All products

While we Will still Don't Do With MKI yet

The J-20 has been repeatedly tracked by IAF fighter radars. This is because China does not have the technology to hide the J-20 radar or canopy from being tracked by enemy radar. The canards of the J-20 are also detrimental to stealth due to them being radar resonance hotspots. The Russian engines on the J-20 also lack stealth, and make the J-20 severely underpowered so it needs to use its afterburner to turn. The cracks appearing on over 40 percent JF-17s exported to Pakistan give further evidence of how limited Chinese materials science currently is. Even the US had issues with making durable stealth in the F-35 when the program was delayed by 2 years due to g-force related cracks. And we are supposed to believe that China (which supposedly stole technology from US via hackers) was successful in operationalizing J-20 2 years ahead of the F-35's problems without any issues? Give me a break. That is why it makes sense that the J-20 is just a propaganda/psy ops barbie doll fighter for brainwashed CCP drones, and why IAF fighters keep tracking it.

There was No proof That IAF actually Traced j-20 or infact it was J-20

they neither showed radar data Its mere conjecture

 

[WARREN SS]

And that is how I know that the IAF can jam these missiles. The Russians don't trust the Chinese IP thieves, hence they always sell them downgraded versions of their technology. All PLAAF missiles are based on downgraded "dumbed down" versions of Russian missiles, which are also behind western technology by 2 decades.
Meanwhile IAF has jammers based on latest western technology.

Unlike Russian they have Money to Upgrade it
And there 500 billion $ + R&D budget Shows that

 

[johnq]

Source ??? of this news

That Chinese Reverse Engineering 101
They Buy It reverse Engineering Like Bought S-400

They bought Su-30 Now they Copied it And created J-16

While I Will still Don't Do With MKI yet


There was No proof That IAF actually Traced j-20 or infact it was J-20

they neither showed radar data Its mere conjecture

You're missing the point. If the PLAAF already had advanced radar technology on their J-20, there would be no point in buying the SU-35 with outdated and downgraded avionics.
The J-20 signature is unique due to its particular engines, which can be determined by certain features on modern radars.

 

[johnq]

Unlike Russian they have Money to Upgrade it
And there 500 billion $ + R&D budget Shows that

Again off topic CCP propaganda. Technological limitations are still there due to technology sanctions, and it's not enough to compete with western ECM.