LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[porky_kicker]

Amazing pic of LCA mk1 ( FOC )

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

View attachment 59484

Amazing pic of LCA mk1 ( FOC )

Is it FOC I can’t see the refueling probe

 

[vishnugupt]

AESA is almost finished the UTTAM AESA is almost ready btw I am saying we should focus on one thing at a time and Channelise the funds to that particular project not on multiple projects our engine program was poorly funded but we spent billions on upgrading our fleet with new engines

Half of your statement is correct. We really need engine technology and we should start work on it as soon as possible because it is very critical technology we must own. Secondly if start work on engine today it will take at least 15 years to realised it so you are right.
But abandoning other project over engine are also equally wrong. We need to be self-reliant in every aspect of technology, be it Radar, engine or gun....

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

India and UK are about sign a joint development program for a 6th generation engine Rolls Royce has promised full ToT and IP rights
India will pay 2.5 billion euros in prototyping stage alone

 

[Flying Dagger]

HTFE25= 27kn
HTFE40= Expected 40.
Current Adour on Jag =37 kn

Current Adour isn't 37 kn the offered one is 37 kn wet thrust by RR.

And the thrust has reduced by 10-30% in several airframes so the upgraded ones barely manage to takeoff and fly.

Pls give the link. HAL is developing HTFE 25. Had tested it's reheat section too in Sept 2019. HTFE25+Afterburner=HTFE40. HAL has developed HTFE 25 and Manik for drones n missiles. Regards HTFE40 it currently has no interest shown by IAF. As per HAL, they can deliver HTFE40 in 5 yrs if funds are provided for further development.

They are going to develop what you mean HTFE 40 as work has been Initiated already. Timeline let's not tell that to ourselves.

 

[porky_kicker]

Is it FOC I can’t see the refueling probe

The probe is detachable , FOC aircrafts has been spotted flying around without the refueling probe

My reason for saying it was FOC was the presence of gun port , I could be right or wrong

 

[Bleh]

I've decided that I like zoomed out videos more, they capture the turns better.

 

[Dessert Storm]

Current Adour isn't 37 kn the offered one is 37 kn wet thrust by RR.

And the thrust has reduced by 10-30% in several airframes so the upgraded ones barely manage to takeoff and fly.



They are going to develop what you mean HTFE 40 as work has been Initiated already. Timeline let's not tell that to ourselves.

The initial batch of Jags with 804Es developed 35.5kn. Later batches with 811s develop 37kn.

https://hal-india.co.in/Product_Details.aspx?Mkey=54&lKey=&CKey=28

10-30% reduction.

Kindly send me the link for start of work on HTFE40.

https://hal-india.co.in/Aero%20Engine/M__146

*They did do the HTFE25 (TD) within promised frame of 6 yrs (2013-19), so won't speculate that they won't do the reheat section in +5.

 

[patriots]

The probe is detachable , FOC aircrafts has been spotted flying around without the refueling probe

My reason for saying it was FOC was the presence of gun port , I could be right or wrong

Gun pod is also available with ioc aircrafts...but gun is not mounted....bdw this is a foc aircraft..and the photo was taken on the rafale induction day(might be)

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

We will have our engines after 10 years from now , I hope we get our aircrafts upgraded with our indigenous AESA Radars and indigenous missiles in the meantime

 

[Shashwat]

The a/c in question is SP-06 from SQ45 so IOC and not FOC.


Didn't wanted to post but sometimes can't help it,

 

[Flying Dagger]

The initial batch of Jags with 804Es developed 35.5kn. Later batches with 811s develop 37kn.

https://hal-india.co.in/Product_Details.aspx?Mkey=54&lKey=&CKey=28

10-30% reduction.

Kindly send me the link for start of work on HTFE40.

https://hal-india.co.in/Aero%20Engine/M__146

*They did do the HTFE25 (TD) within promised frame of 6 yrs (2013-19), so won't speculate that they won't do the reheat section in +5.

HTFE 25 trials have started but it will take time to be certified and enter production meant for IJT and twin engine AJT (possibly) . And it started in 2013 and discussion even before that.

There is already mk951 available with 29kn dry thrust and can be used for Jags with after burner.

But IAF refused that but this (or uprated HTFE 25 ) might be the saving option for Jags.

HTFE 40 ( actually it was a concept came from some article and not the after burner version of HTFE 25 ) where a 35- 40 kn class engine with 50 -55 kn wet thrust was suggested.

It is obvious they will go for after burner next anyway. It is a progression .

You can check annual report of HAL 2018-19 they have mentioned that it's already in testing phase.

 

[Dessert Storm]

HTFE 25 trials have started but it will take time to be certified and enter production meant for IJT and twin engine AJT (possibly) . And it started in 2013 and discussion even before that.

There is already mk951 available with 29kn dry thrust and can be used for Jags with after burner.

But IAF refused that but this (or uprated HTFE 25 ) might be the saving option for Jags.

HTFE 40 ( actually it was a concept came from some article and not the after burner version of HTFE 25 ) where a 35- 40 kn class engine with 50 -55 kn wet thrust was suggested.

It is obvious they will go for after burner next anyway. It is a progression .

You can check annual report of HAL 2018-19 they have mentioned that it's already in testing phase.

Annual Report 2018-19 says ”The Company has taken up the design and development of ‘Afterburner Technology’ for HTFE-25 aero engine. The afterburner module was mounted on the PTAE engine followed by a successful demonstration of the basic afterburner technology using a fixed area propelling nozzle for HTFE-25 engine, in March, 2019."

In my post I did mention the fact that TD for HTFE25 and reheat section was done in 2019. The same is mentioned in the Annual Report.

I also mentioned that for further development on afterburner section of HTFE25, they want funds from IAF or whoever is interested. Meaning that in absence of funds, the afterburner is frozen and only development of HTFE25 continues.

Had they taken up further development of the afterburner section, they would mention it on their webpage as on date (after all afterburner is a big achievement). I posted the link as of today. It mentions just HTFE25 n HTSE1200.

Lastly, HAL Annual Report 2019-20 does not make any mention of development of either any sort of afterburner section or HTFE40.
Kindly reassess.
* to rest of the info/assessment in your post

 

[Flying Dagger]

Annual Report 2018-19 says ”The Company has taken up the design and development of ‘Afterburner Technology’ for HTFE-25 aero engine. The afterburner module was mounted on the PTAE engine followed by a successful demonstration of the basic afterburner technology using a fixed area propelling nozzle for HTFE-25 engine, in March, 2019."

In my post I did mention the fact that TD for HTFE25 and reheat section was done in 2019. The same is mentioned in the Annual Report.

I also mentioned that for further development on afterburner section of HTFE25, they want funds from IAF or whoever is interested. Meaning that in absence of funds, the afterburner is frozen and only development of HTFE25 continues.

Had they taken up further development of the afterburner section, they would mention it on their webpage as on date (after all afterburner is a big achievement). I posted the link as of today. It mentions just HTFE25 n HTSE1200.

Lastly, HAL Annual Report 2019-20 does not make any mention of development of either any sort of afterburner section or HTFE40.
Kindly reassess.
* to rest of the info/assessment in your post

So what we are saying is same except

HTFE 25 with after burner isn't HTFE 40 so obviously no HAL report will call it so.

The reheat section/ after burner module is developed and tested . (didn't read your post will do).

The report says there is no future orders in sight and it will take another 5-6 years for HTFE 25 to be ( verified and certified) flight worthy.

There is no after burner of HTFE 25 for which IAF will approve funds why would they ? It's HAL internal project for their future offerings.

IAF will ask for uprating of whole engine instead if they do. ( The whole uprated engine concept is HTFE 40 not a real project though )

And who else would be interested it's meant for HAL's IJT or possible twin engine AJT. Jags are an after thought.

Rest

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

Why can’t we use HTFE 25 with afterburner in Jaguars?

 

[Flying Dagger]

Offtopic : if we have any.

Is Tejas going to get any HF-XX designation like HF-24 Marut anytime soon ?

HF - 25 ?

 

[Dessert Storm]

So what we are saying is same except

HTFE 25 with after burner isn't HTFE 40 so obviously no HAL report will call it so.

The reheat section/ after burner module is developed and tested . (didn't read your post will do).

The report says there is no future orders in sight and it will take another 5-6 years for HTFE 25 to be ( verified and certified) flight worthy.

There is no after burner of HTFE 25 for which IAF will approve funds why would they ? It's HAL internal project for their future offerings.

IAF will ask for uprating of whole engine instead if they do. ( The whole uprated engine concept is HTFE 40 not a real project though )

And who else would be interested it's meant for HAL's IJT or possible twin engine AJT. Jags are an after thought.

Rest

HTFE 25 with after burner isn't HTFE 40 so obviously no HAL report will call it so.
From tech development POV, that is exactly what it essentially is. Even if it really isn't, still there is no mention of HTFE40 in annual report 2019-20.

The reheat section/ after burner module is developed and tested . (didn't read your post will do).
As attached by yourself, Annual report 2018-19 mentions afterburner tech as 'demonstration of the basic afterburner technology', not mature tech.

The report says there is no future orders in sight and it will take another 5-6 years for HTFE 25 to be ( verified and certified) flight worthy.
In the post u replied to, I did say TD for HTFE 25 done in 2019. It automatically also means that it is still under development.

There is no after burner of HTFE 25 for which IAF will approve funds why would they ? It's HAL internal project for their future offerings.
As mentioned in para 2 of my current post, a basic working afterburner is demonstrated. So there 'is' an afterburner as demonstrated. If IAF is interested in getting an engine upgrade, they may in future. As far as HAL investing 'further' in 'this' afterburner, no indication for that currently.

IAF will ask for uprating of whole engine instead if they do. ( The whole uprated engine concept is HTFE 40 not a real project though ).
I presume u mean to say 40 kn of dry thrust. That's a new 'bigger' engine, won't fit in Jags. The only one that fits Jags would be HTFE25 with afterburners. Yep, not real as a whole, but only as a TD.

And who else would be interested it's meant for HAL's IJT or possible twin engine AJT. Jags are an after thought.
Basically meant to say 'HAL won't put in any more money' unless the prospective user pitches in. Why would a user put in the money, that's between the user and HAL.

 

[Flying Dagger]

HTFE 25 with after burner isn't HTFE 40 so obviously no HAL report will call it so.
From tech development POV, that is exactly what it essentially is. Even if it really isn't, still there is no mention of HTFE40 in annual report 2019-20.

The reheat section/ after burner module is developed and tested . (didn't read your post will do).
As attached by yourself, Annual report 2018-19 mentions afterburner tech as 'demonstration of the basic afterburner technology', not mature tech.

The report says there is no future orders in sight and it will take another 5-6 years for HTFE 25 to be ( verified and certified) flight worthy.
In the post u replied to, I did say TD for HTFE 25 done in 2019. It automatically also means that it is still under development.

There is no after burner of HTFE 25 for which IAF will approve funds why would they ? It's HAL internal project for their future offerings.
As mentioned in para 2 of my current post, a basic working afterburner is demonstrated. So there 'is' an afterburner as demonstrated. If IAF is interested in getting an engine upgrade, they may in future. As far as HAL investing 'further' in 'this' afterburner, no indication for that currently.

IAF will ask for uprating of whole engine instead if they do. ( The whole uprated engine concept is HTFE 40 not a real project though ).
I presume u mean to say 40 kn of dry thrust. That's a new 'bigger' engine, won't fit in Jags. The only one that fits Jags would be HTFE25 with afterburners. Yep, not real as a whole, but only as a TD.

And who else would be interested it's meant for HAL's IJT or possible twin engine AJT. Jags are an after thought.
Basically meant to say 'HAL won't put in any more money' unless the prospective user pitches in. Why would a user put in the money, that's between the user and HAL.

1. Why would only 25 kn will fit?

There is already a 29 kn dry thrust version available from RR, Infact the same HAL engine can be uprated to 29-30kn as per HAL.

2. Yes, a 35-40 kn dry thrust as said earlier + after burner. It doesn't essentially mean a bigger engine but uprating the thrust with engine of similar dimension to fit on Jags.

For e.g. Al 31 have 121kn wet thrust.

A GE F414 engine produce 97kn but an uprated version with same size can provide 116-119 kn

There is big diff in size of both but both can provide 120 kn wet thrust.

And user isn't pitching in either for HTFE 25 or even their trainer but they develop it from internal funds and will make them pick it. HTFE 25 will go on and money will be spent whether someone pitches in or out.

Because HAL will use this engine on various projects and having a working turbofan engine is a big deal plus cost saver for future.

 

[Dessert Storm]

1. Why would only 25 kn will fit?

There is already a 29 kn dry thrust version available from RR, Infact the same HAL engine can be uprated to 29-30kn as per HAL.

2. Yes, a 35-40 kn dry thrust as said earlier + after burner. It doesn't essentially mean a bigger engine but uprating the thrust with engine of similar dimension to fit on Jags.

For e.g. Al 31 have 121kn wet thrust.

A GE F414 engine produce 97kn but an uprated version with same size can provide 116-119 kn

There is big diff in size of both but both can provide 120 kn wet thrust.

And user isn't pitching in either for HTFE 25 or even their trainer but they develop it from internal funds and will make them pick it. HTFE 25 will go on and money will be spent whether someone pitches in or out.

Because HAL will use this engine on various projects and having a working turbofan engine is a big deal plus cost saver for future.

1. Why would only 25 kn will fit?
The RR engine is expensive. Moreover, we were discussing about an engine with 40kn of thrust. If uprating was cheaper HAL would have gone in for a TD of an uprated engine, rather than an afterburner.
2. A 97kn engine uprated to 116-119kn would be approx a 20-25% bump. But 25 to 40 is 60% bump. Not possible to do it with same engine size. New engine would have to be developed.
Comparing size n thrust of two different engines from Russians and Americans or any two engines is out of context. The discussion is about uprating a 'given' engine from 25 to 40.

Precisely HAL is doing HTFE 25 out of internal accruals as a business decision. Not to invest any further (as of now) on afterburner for HTFE 25 is also a business decision. I presented the fact that they will go on with HTFE 25 and won't invest in afterburner section in my previous posts. Dunno why it's being brought up by you.

 

[utubekhiladi]

Fun fact:

View attachment 59459
Notice the gap between the fuselage & splitter plate of Tejas. The boundary layer air gets divided into three sections. The section marked in black is pushed upwards to help create lift vortex. The one in white escapes below... But at the middle portion marked in violet the air enters the fuselage & cools the engine to escape from this gap & helps mask the IR signature from the jet exhaust.
View attachment 59460

damn dude, i always wondered about that splitter plate thing but no body was able to explain it till today..