LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

BangaliBabu

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How is the new Japanese XF9-1 engine ?

Info on wiki looks pretty exciting


The XF9-1 is a twin-spool axial-flow afterburning turbofan with a dual redundant FADEC, consisting of a 3-stage fan, a 6-stage high-pressure compressor, an annular type combustor, a single-stage high-pressure turbine, a single-stage low-pressure turbine, an afterburner, and a convergent-divergent nozzle. The concept, slim and high-power, resulted in an approximately 30% higher thrust per unit cross-sectional area compared to the GE F110 the Mitsubishi F-2 is equipped with. To achieve this thrust level, a higher combustion temperature (1,800℃ class) and an optimized aerodynamic design were needed, which in turn required advanced material, manufacturing, cooling and fluid analysis technologies.

Each of the rotors is a blisk to contribute to weight reduction and downsizing. The combustor is equipped with patented new-type burners, Wide-angle Swirler, to facilitate stable combustion and more uniform heat distribution at the outlet. To reduce cost, the high-pressure turbine disk is manufactured by forging technique instead of powder metallurgy (PM) employed in the XF5; the material is a nickel-cobalt base superalloy, TMW-24, developed by NIMS, of which heat resistance is comparable to that of PM superalloys. Turbine blades made of a Japanese fifth generation nickel base single-crystal superalloy are friction welded to the disk to form the blisk, which is enclosed in the shroud made of ceramic matrix composites. The afterburner is a new type to eliminate the conventional annular flame holders to improve efficiency.

As another characteristic, the XF9-1 incorporates a starter generator that outputs 180 kW, meaning that a twin-engine fighter with this engine can be supplied with as much as 360 kW of electricity by engines alone.[4] The capacity is quite large compared to that of conventional fourth or fifth generation fighters such as the Boeing F-15E (76 kW), the Lockheed Martin F-22 (130 kW), and the Lockheed Martin F-35 (160 kW), allowing for next generation avionics and other high power consuming onboard devices and equipment.

In addition, a research to demonstrate thrust vectoring control and its failure handling technology is conducted from 2016 to 2020 in parallel with development of the engine. This research is aimed at achieving higher maneuverability and smaller control surfaces favorable to stealth aircraft. For the XF9-1, the XVN3-1 three-dimensional thrust vectoring nozzle is available, which can deflect thrust up to 20 degrees in all circumference directions.[7]
Persistence is the key and that's why Japan excels. They have put immense faith in the XF9's predecessors.
Btw, if 'twas India or China, any failure which might result in the intentional bad publicity by the Goras, we'll be cribbing 'bout it for a decade. Japan just kept it's mouth shut and developed a hard-nosed attitude to it's problems all these years.
 

Steven Rogers

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So 2020-21 (April to March) - 8 FOC (2 delivered, 6 to go)
2021-22 - 8 FOC
2022-23 - 8 Trainers
2023-24 onwards 16 Tejas mk1A
Delivery complete in 5 years , 2027-28.

Also someone please ask HVT why the 2 Tejas FOC is not deployed in Ladakh? 6 Sorties a day during Ex Gagan Shakti! highest score in weapons delivery! Low Flight cost per hour? They rather use an old Mig29/Mirage2000 with maintainable issues and higher operational cost?
Squadron isn't even raised fully...
 

Chinmoy

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So I was looking at price comparison for lca and rafale since data for both is now known.

We got 36 rafale all inclusive ( spare / infra/ Indian specifics / weaponry) for 7.8 billion euro which is 8.7 billion usd.
So 36 rafale for 8.7 billion usd = 243 million per jet.

Lca mk1a is just 5.2 billion usd for 83 == 62.6 million per jet ( including infra spare weaponry).

Earlier 40 mk1 came for 1.25 billion usd == 31.25 million per jet only.

It may take 1 billion more to upgrade 40 mk1 to mk1a with aesa . ( Mig29 upg deal was 900 million for 66 jets. Aesa will cost more but no payment to Russia in case of mk1 to mk1a. Also less numbers only 40).

Adding all up we will have 123 mk1a for 7.25 billion usd all in.

So for the cost of 36 rafale ( 8.7 billion usd ) you can get 150 mk1a.

150mk1a armed with 2052 or uttam aesa radar and derby ER / Astra and Astra mk2 later sfdr are very very potent firepower.
Just a small correction. The price tag of 62mill USD per jet for 83 LCA is sans weapon package and maintenance by HAL.
 

Steven Rogers

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So, if a full squadron isnt raised, the 2 FOC fighters cannot take part in CAP along with the Su,Mig29 and Mirage2000?
Technically it shouldn't,since the squadron is not raised fully and is newly formed, currently the flying bullets can't fly with the Sukhois and migs since the training and raising of the squadron is not completed...
 

ladder

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Technically it shouldn't,since the squadron is not raised fully and is newly formed, currently the flying bullets can't fly with the Sukhois and migs since the training and raising of the squadron is not completed...
Can Sqd 45 Flying Daggers do the above? ( Flying with Sukhois and Migs?)
 

ladder

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If hvt sir to believed...regular mock fights between Tejas and su30......also other fighter s happen regularly......
I know that. Why I am asking it as current holding of Sqadron 18 is 3 fighters/trainers.
1 FoC and 2 IOC/trainers loaned from Sqad. 45.
CO of Squad. 18 earlier served in Squad. 45.
Others pilots too would have. Non are novice.
Technicians, some served in Squad. 45 and few were attached with Squad. 45 for training for months.

So, my assertion is that what Sqad. 45 can do, Sqad. 18 can perform.

But, do they need to? It is a complete different question though.
 

patriots

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I know that. Why I am asking it as current holding of Sqadron 18 is 3 fighters/trainers.
1 FoC and 2 IOC/trainers loaned from Sqad. 45.
CO of Squad. 18 earlier served in Squad. 45.
Others pilots too would have. Non are novice.
Technicians, some served in Squad. 45 and few were attached with Squad. 45 for training for months.

So, my assertion is that what Sqad. 45 can do, Sqad. 18 can perform.

But, do they need to? It is a complete different question though.
Bro when iaf is ready to use mig27 which was retired......them there is no problem to use Tejas ioc....
Tejas ioc can do better ground strikes ....
 

IndianHawk

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Just a small correction. The price tag of 62mill USD per jet for 83 LCA is sans weapon package and maintenance by HAL.
Maintainance is included iirc. Spares too. Weapons may not be included of course .

Also infrastructure wise lca can directly fit into hardened shelter built for mig21 thus saving huge amount of money in construction of the same.

In fact mwf may also move into same shelters easily.
 

Floydian

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The only thing that is bewildering, the IAF took note of the development, but did nothing to counter it.
Neither the novator project was finalised when PAF was buying SAAB AWACS.
That's exactly the thing that's baffling!
How and why didn't IAF take relevant steps then, or atleast start a procurement process with a fixed deadline? Is our babudom/ ancient SOPs more important that national security?!!
 

arkos

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Certainly during the MLUs,Current focus is on the production of foc Tejas mk1for 2nd squadron and Tejas mk1A.
The upgrade to FOC will be done by IAF itself as confirmed by the COAS. They will do it once they get more FOC variants and have enough experience on it.
 

arkos

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That won't happen unless the airframes have flown for a decade,minor software related stuff can be done easily.
They plan to retire Tejas Mk1 by 2032 according to this 2019 article.

Some other excerpts from the article :

Meanwhile, the IAF chief confirmed the IAF would buy 21 MiG-29 fighters that are lying ready built in Russia. “We are going to go in for 21 MiG-29, which has already been informed [to Moscow],” he said.
Adding those to the IAF’s existing three MiG-29 squadrons, which are undergoing a mid-life upgrade, would take the number of IAF MiG-29 squadrons up to four."

"We are moving towards ordering 12 more Sukhoi-30s. Whether we need some more in lieu of aircraft that are going to get phased out from 2025 onwards… we will have to take a look later. But at the moment, 12 is what is being followed up straightaway."

Dismissing rumours that India is buying 36 more Rafales from France, Bhadauria stated: “Our plan is for building 114 MRFA in the SP model. There is no separate plan for this (36 more Rafales)."
 

ARVION

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They plan to retire Tejas Mk1 by 2032 according to this 2019 article.

Some other excerpts from the article :

Meanwhile, the IAF chief confirmed the IAF would buy 21 MiG-29 fighters that are lying ready built in Russia. “We are going to go in for 21 MiG-29, which has already been informed [to Moscow],” he said.
Adding those to the IAF’s existing three MiG-29 squadrons, which are undergoing a mid-life upgrade, would take the number of IAF MiG-29 squadrons up to four."

"We are moving towards ordering 12 more Sukhoi-30s. Whether we need some more in lieu of aircraft that are going to get phased out from 2025 onwards… we will have to take a look later. But at the moment, 12 is what is being followed up straightaway."

Dismissing rumours that India is buying 36 more Rafales from France, Bhadauria stated: “Our plan is for building 114 MRFA in the SP model. There is no separate plan for this (36 more Rafales)."
Wrong article the actual interview said they are going to inducted all MK 1a's by 2026
 

vishnugupt

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Dismissing rumours that India is buying 36 more Rafales from France, Bhadauria stated: “Our plan is for building 114 MRFA in the SP model. There is no separate plan for this (36 more Rafales)."
Recently MWF name was dropped for Tejas MK2. " Kuch samjhe daya"??
Initial demand was 114 MMRCA.1 after buying 36 Rafales still demand is 114 MMRCA.2 . around 2023, after delivery of 36 Rafales IAF will pitch for another 36 rafales ( Most likely will get it ) But Demand of these 114 MMRCA will be there till eternity.
Meanwhile Tejas Mk1A contract keep on delaying
 

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