LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

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Harsh Varshan Thakur who is Test Pilot with India’s State-owned aerospace and defence company Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), recently explained on Twitter, why LCA-Tejas which was engineered to fly at 1.8M has been tested till 1.6M and why it will never be cleared to Pilots to fly beyond that. This particular query how SAAB’s Gripen has 2.0M speed while using the same GE’s F-404 engine India’s LCA-Tejas max speed is limited to only 1.8M prompted his response. Thakur explains that simple pilot type intake design used on LCA-Tejas is what prevents LCA-Tejas to have engineered speed of 2.0M while to achieve this speeds, LCA air intakes could have to re-done and also employ intakes cones as seen in Mirage-2000 and Mig-21 which moves move in or out of the intakes to maintain the shockwave in its the proper position, ahead of the first stage of the engine and need to be adjusted by the pilot. lack of intakes cones in LCA-Tejas means a hassle-free operation for the Pilot but this new phenomenon is not limited to LCA-Tejas alone but many are countries are now limiting Mach speed on many modern fighter jets after intense study and data collected over the years of the max speed at different attitudes as pointed by Thakur, who gives an example how below 22000 feet altitude Mach speed over 1.6 is not possible and a plane flying at Mach 1.8 has the advantage of only 60knot when it is above 28000 feet altitude. In the cold war era, Mach speed mattered the most only in getaway drive and little actually in the combat, also in the cold war era, jets were not made to last 6000 hours of airframe life nor were to be operational for 40 years. lower production cost in the 60-70s meant those jets with higher max speeds could barely last beyond 20 years before airframe stress and hairline fractures on the fuselage could have grounded them for good but when jets became more expensive due to avionics and improved technology, many countries start studies effect of high-speed stress on the airframe and it was concluded that unnecessary high speed which has little advantages in combat scenarios should be avoided to prolong the airframe life of the jets. The LCA-Tejas airframe has been engineered to achieve 1.8Mach speed and it was supposed to be tested till that speed to achieve its specification mark but that could not be done due to fear of possible FBW failure and loss of control due to excessive vibrations at that speed and max speed achieved was 1.6Mach, which now has become the gold standard of max speed in new jets to maintain a long life of the airframe and to also avoid critical premature airframe failures. India’s next two fighter jet programs like Medium Weight Fighter and AMCA will also have Max speed of 1.8Mach, but this time engineers and its developers plan to test to its limit but Pilots will always be told to keep it below 1.6Mach.

idrw.org .Read more at India No 1 Defence News Website https://idrw.org/test-pilots-explains-why-pilots-are-not-cleared-to-fly-above-1-6mach-on-lca-tejas/ .
 

Steven Rogers

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Yes Gripen got Excellent Turn rate , but not sure about the graph . This graph is two or three years old . Gripen NG is an excellent fighter , 360 degree EW , excellent datalink and netcentric warfare .

Don't know the authenticity of the Graph . Gripen is streamlined for super cruise , so the drag must be very low .
Excellent instantaneous turn rate,STR shouldn't be as good as an F16 or a Eurofighter...
 

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STR shouldn't be as good as an F16 or a Eurofighter...
Why not? NG with F414 can (with A2A payload) supercruise apparently. That would mean mighty good aerodynamics. Maybe enough to overcome minor T/W deficiencies compared to ET.

Its wing-area is probably the least of all Deltas out there, much lower than like of ET or Mirage-2000.
 
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HariPrasad-1

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You can check the Official website , Gripen is the only Aircraft which got GaN Ew suite . Tge sensor fusion is only behind F35
Tejas too will have very modern sensor fusion. Recently, our one high rank IAF official had said that Tejas' cockpit is as modern as that of F 35. I am sure that when Tejas Mk2 will come in, it will be very modern in most of the areas and best in some others.
 

Steven Rogers

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Why not? NG with F414 can (with A2A payload) supercruise apparently. That would mean mighty good aerodynamics. Maybe enough to overcome minor T/W deficiencies compared to ET.

Its wing-area is probably the least of all Deltas out there, much lower than like of ET or Mirage-2000.
Even today's Gripen Supercruise at mach 1.1. The new engine is installed on a 1.5 heavier gripen than what it was earlier. Their has been almost no design change in the gripen,that means it flight characteristics will hardly be affected,it could ve improved STR performance but that depends upon the payload it carries,the weight is also shot 1.5tons heavier than the earlier..a normal wing should have higher Slow speed sustained turn rate than a normal wing due the large surface which induces more drag while turning .
 

abhay rajput

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Tejas too will have very modern sensor fusion. Recently, our one high rank IAF official had said that Tejas' cockpit is as modern as that of F 35. I am sure that when Tejas Mk2 will come in, it will be very modern in most of the areas and best in some others.
Gripen will trump both Tejas and Tejas mk1a. I in no way demeaning Tejas but I just think Gripen is that much good especially with meteor missile
 

Aaj ka hero

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Gripen will trump both Tejas and Tejas mk1a. I in no way demeaning Tejas but I just think Gripen is that much good especially with meteor missile
Bhai, let's tejas future version come.
It's not good to decide early and then act like an immovable entity.
 

abhay rajput

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Bhai, let's tejas future version come.
It's not good to decide early and then act like an immovable entity.
Bhai Gripen has inbuilt 360 ew system . Tejas doesn't come close to it. It have latest solid state technology . We plan to incorporate these technologies in probably Tejas mk2/MWF and AMCA.
 
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BangaliBabu

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Gripen will trump both Tejas and Tejas mk1a. I in no way demeaning Tejas but I just think Gripen is that much good especially with meteor missile
Mk2 will be the one with canards. Gripen-NG already has canards. Let's compare canards to canards. BTW, are the canards of Mk2 close-coupled like that of -NG or Rafale???......
 

Prashant12

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A rare capture of shock rings (diamonds) at the afterburner of LCA Tejas. Trust Deb_Rana's incredible lens to bring the moment to life Series of shock waves & expansion fans when high-speed low-pressure exhaust meets high static ambient pressure More Thrust More Rings 11


1587518944776.png



 

HariPrasad-1

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Gripen will trump both Tejas and Tejas mk1a. I in no way demeaning Tejas but I just think Gripen is that much good especially with meteor missile
I hope that your opinion is backed by enough reading on the subject to form an opinion.
 

abhay rajput

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I hope that your opinion is backed by enough reading on the subject to form an opinion.
My opinion is based on someone else's opinion who knows these kinds of stuff better than your or me. :) . IAF pilots were very impressed with Gripen and Rafale because of the sensor fusion in both of these aircrafts. Tejas doesn't come close to it. Infact Tejas doesn't come close to even m2k upgraded ones. Maybe Tejas mk1a will be better.
 

HariPrasad-1

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My opinion is based on someone else's opinion who knows these kinds of stuff better than your or me. :) . IAF pilots were very impressed with Gripen and Rafale because of the sensor fusion in both of these aircrafts. Tejas doesn't come close to it. Infact Tejas doesn't come close to even m2k upgraded ones. Maybe Tejas mk1a will be better.
Which Gripen are you talking about? Gripen C/D or Gripen NG? Tejas Mk1 A will be comparable or even better than Gripen C/D and Tejas Mk2 shall atleast match Gripen E in performance including sensors and EW if not better. Meteor option will remain open for Indian fighters. France is ready to integrate Meteor provided radar is Indian.
 
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Immanuel

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Which Gripen are you talking about? Gripen C/D or Gripen NG? Tejas Mk1 A will be comparable or even better than Gripen C/D and Tejas Mk2 shall atleast match Gripen E in performance including sensors and EW if not better. Meteor option will remain open for Indian fighters. France is ready to integrate Meteor provided radar is Indian.
No Meteor on anything that isn't French, European or American. Besides, Meteor is not needed. If prioritized correctly, we could have SFDR in 5 years.
 

HariPrasad-1

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No Meteor on anything that isn't French, European or American. Besides, Meteor is not needed. If prioritized correctly, we could have SFDR in 5 years.
Read the news of some time back. France had said that they are ready to integrate meteor of radar is not israeli.
 

Aniruddha Mulay

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Read the news of some time back. France had said that they are ready to integrate meteor of radar is not israeli.
Come 2024, even British F-35B would be getting Meteor.
The French blocked the integration on other IAF platforms becuase that would basically jeopardize the future sales of more Rafales to India.
Meteor is one of the major selling point of the Dassault Rafale
 

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Come 2024, even British F-35B would be getting Meteor.
The French blocked the integration on other IAF platforms becuase that would basically jeopardize the future sales of more Rafales to India.
Meteor is one of the major selling point of the Dassault Rafale
as SFDR is coming into fruition French are becoming ready to integrate meteor on all Indian platforms fitted with indegeneous radar. within 5 yrs this meteor saga will be over .
 

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