LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[rone]

...................................

very gud neutral view, he also missed some points like service availability, fast turn around time etc also avionics the only radar is Israel origin the mission computer mfd and other things are Indian origin ( yep with some french origin designs) full list of electronic parts both Indian and foreign used in foc and oic lca
https://www.ada.gov.in/images/ADA-IND.pdf

note this pdf old and it was the wish list to make things mad in India most of the LRU on this list already made in India

 

[varun9509]

very gud neutral view, he also missed some points like service availability, fast turn around time etc also avionics the only radar is Israel origin the machine computer mfd and other things are Indian origin ( yep with some french origin designs) full list of electronic parts both Indian and foreign used in foc and oic lca
https://www.ada.gov.in/images/ADA-IND.pdf

note this pdf old and it was the wish list to make things mad in India most of the LRU ion this list already made in India

I wanted him to talk more about design and airframe. He has extensively covered Gripen and Rafale designs, I also wanted to know more about Tejas design in similar manner. But its good how he focused on how we have developed tech and industrial complexes through Tejas.
But comment section is pretty lit, Indian users are taking on the european and western critiques. Paki trolls are also naturally there.

 

[aditya10r]

very gud neutral view, he also missed some points like service availability, fast turn around time etc also avionics the only radar is Israel origin the machine computer mfd and other things are Indian origin ( yep with some french origin designs) full list of electronic parts both Indian and foreign used in foc and oic lca
https://www.ada.gov.in/images/ADA-IND.pdf

note this pdf old and it was the wish list to make things mad in India most of the LRU on this list already made in India

For an outsider who hasn't followed the program for long,he did a better than most indian defende journos.

It was more of an overview.

___________________________________________

 

[varun9509]

Where does the 90 KN figure for GE-404 come from? I saw the official pdf and it says 84KN for IN20 version. Which one is the true figure?

 

[rone]

Where does the 90 KN figure for GE-404 come from? I saw the official pdf and it says 84KN for IN20 version. Which one is the true figure?

90KN may be fan theory no official document saying it but there are some points we don't know like why IAF decided no MAWS to LCA ( also other fighter jets ), why no intent to use r77-1 (improved version after 2k) etc which u can get only if u are close to HAL staff

 

[rohit b3]

Where does the 90 KN figure for GE-404 come from? I saw the official pdf and it says 84KN for IN20 version. Which one is the true figure?

Powerplant - Specifications | Tejas - India's Light Combat Aircraft

Official site, under power plant. 20,200 LBF converts to 89.85 KiloNewton.

 

[no smoking]

Powerplant - Specifications | Tejas - India's Light Combat Aircraft

Official site, under power plant. 20,200 LBF converts to 89.85 KiloNewton.

That is interesting. GE itself claims her F404-IN20 is only at 19000lbs or 84.52kn

https://www.geaviation.com/sites/default/files/datasheet-F404-Family.pdf

Who is right, who is wrong?

 

[rohit b3]

That is interesting. GE itself claims her F404-IN20 is only at 19000lbs or 84.52kn

https://www.geaviation.com/sites/default/files/datasheet-F404-Family.pdf

Who is right, who is wrong?

Wow, now i am as baffled as you are. I have been following Tejas for about 10 years now and have been proudly destroying the myth that its "Underpowered" , and now i am really confused.
Can any expert clear that?
Or maybe ask Mr Harsh Vardhan?

 

[IndianHawk]

Wow, now i am as baffled as you are. I have been following Tejas for about 10 years now and have been proudly destroying the myth that its "Underpowered" , and now i am really confused.
Can any expert clear that?
Or maybe ask Mr Harsh Vardhan?

Both are correct. GE published Base line figure. ADA published actual thrust achieved for lca.

Here is GE report on contract.

F404-GE-IN20 Engines Ordered for India Light Combat Aircraft | GE Aerospace News

BANGALORE, INDIA -- Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has ordered an additional 24 F404-GE-IN20 afterburning engines to power the first operational squadron of Tejas fighter aircraft for the Indian Air Force. Value of the order is in excess of $100 million and follows an initial 2004 purchase...

www.geaviation.com

It says
Based on the F404-GE-402, the F404-GE-IN20 is the highest rated F404 model and includes a higher-flow fan, increased thrust, a Full Authority Digital Electronic Control (FADEC) system, single-crystal turbine blades and a variety of single-engine features.

The F404-IN-20 engine has generated more than 19,000 pounds (85 kN) uninstalled thrust

So GE says actual thrust is more than 85kn . How much more ADA has published that.

Also we got 24 engine for 100 millions means 4 million per engine.

 

[darshan978]

as far as i remember ge404 for Indian variant produces 89 kn thrust.

 

[IndianHawk]

Hv thakur on elta 2052 range on jaguar to guide harpoon missile. Now lca mk1a has even bigger version of the same.

 

[Saichand K]

But is 2052 installed on jaguar ?? Or is it in protype stage ?

 

[abhay rajput]

But is 2052 installed on jaguar ?? Or is it in protype stage ?

Elta 2052 radar has 3 variants. With 300, 500, 1500 tr modules .The biggest one can even fit in f15 nose. On top of that ship RCS and aircraft RCS isn't comparable at all.

 

[IndianHawk]

But is 2052 installed on jaguar ?? Or is it in protype stage ?

Installed. Small version with less number of t/r modules.

Infact elta 2052 is already serving in Columbian air Force kfir jets with derby ER too in operation.

The combo of elta 2052 +derby ER is ready and tested to go into mk1a.

 

[rohit b3]

I was having a debate with a Swedish guy about Tejas and Gripen. As we know at Bahrain, the Mk1 showcased an instantaneous turn rate (ITR) of near 30 degrees per second and a sustained turn rate (STR) of between 15 to 16 degrees per second which I think is pretty decent.

The Swedish guy then said Gripen's instantaneous turn rate (ITR) is 38 degrees per second, sustained turn rate (STR) 28.5 degrees per second and showed me this Graph : https://www.sempermiles.se/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/gripen_f35_turn-rates.jpg
This cant be serious right? Lol. It says Gripen has the best ITR and STR in the world..better than F-22, EF, Rafale, Su-35, etc?

 

[Karthi]

I was having a debate with a Swedish guy about Tejas and Gripen. As we know at Bahrain, the Mk1 showcased an instantaneous turn rate (ITR) of near 30 degrees per second and a sustained turn rate (STR) of between 15 to 16 degrees per second which I think is pretty decent.

The Swedish guy then said Gripen's instantaneous turn rate (ITR) is 38 degrees per second, sustained turn rate (STR) 28.5 degrees per second and showed me this Graph : https://www.sempermiles.se/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/gripen_f35_turn-rates.jpg
This cant be serious right? Lol. It says Gripen has the best ITR and STR in the world..better than F-22, EF, Rafale, Su-35, etc?

Yes Gripen got Excellent Turn rate , but not sure about the graph . This graph is two or three years old . Gripen NG is an excellent fighter , 360 degree EW , excellent datalink and netcentric warfare .

Don't know the authenticity of the Graph . Gripen is streamlined for super cruise , so the drag must be very low .

 

[rohit b3]

Yes Gripen got Excellent Turn rate , but not sure about the graph . This graph is two or three years old . Gripen NG is an excellent fighter , 360 degree EW , excellent datalink and netcentric warfare .

Don't know the authenticity of the Graph . Gripen is streamlined for super cruise , so the drag must be very low .

And what do you base that opinion on?

 

[Karthi]

And what do you base that opinion on?

You can check the Official website , Gripen is the only Aircraft which got GaN Ew suite . Tge sensor fusion is only behind F35

 

[Bleh]

The Swedish guy then said Gripen's instantaneous turn rate (ITR) is 38 degrees per second, sustained turn rate (STR) 28.5 degrees per second and showed me this Graph : https://www.sempermiles.se/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/gripen_f35_turn-rates.jpg

No, that is fantasy... random dots. Too much even for brochuritis patients.
Look up Gripen demo display videos. Its maneuverability is very similar to Tejas Mark1 in real life, with about 20 sec full turns and 8-9 sec for 180°.

@Karthi is right. Gripen's greatest strength is electronics and sleek design that allows it (NG) to supercruise at missile only interceptor config.

 

[no smoking]

Both are correct. GE published Base line figure. ADA published actual thrust achieved for lca.

Here is GE report on contract.

F404-GE-IN20 Engines Ordered for India Light Combat Aircraft | GE Aerospace News

BANGALORE, INDIA -- Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has ordered an additional 24 F404-GE-IN20 afterburning engines to power the first operational squadron of Tejas fighter aircraft for the Indian Air Force. Value of the order is in excess of $100 million and follows an initial 2004 purchase...

www.geaviation.com

It says
Based on the F404-GE-402, the F404-GE-IN20 is the highest rated F404 model and includes a higher-flow fan, increased thrust, a Full Authority Digital Electronic Control (FADEC) system, single-crystal turbine blades and a variety of single-engine features.

The F404-IN-20 engine has generated more than 19,000 pounds (85 kN) uninstalled thrust

So GE says actual thrust is more than 85kn . How much more ADA has published that.

Also we got 24 engine for 100 millions means 4 million per engine.

Do you understand the difference between "Uninstalled thrust" and "Install thrust"?
Uninstalled thrust is the figure achieved when the engine is mounted in a test cell without cowlings, covers, etc, etc. This thrust is only an ideal figure.
Installed thrust, on the other hand, is measured on the plane. This figure is affected deeply by the shape of cowling, covers, the wings, the length of air inlet, etc. The installed thrust is always less than uninstalled thrust because of the interferences.

So, ADA published a fantasy figure which is meaningless. The GE figure is the real one.