LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[AbRaj]

Empty Weight only Counts Internal Fuel

Its Not New Criteria Its only changes Calculation criteria

Empty weight of what ? Internal fuel? How much? If it doesn’t include drop tank and ammunition’s then how it is affecting TWR in case of LCA?
So you want to say TWR s not standardised across platforms. Also an aircraft can have dozens of twr figures depending upon the weight load it is carrying at that time. Am I assuming correct?
Good to learn

 

[WARREN SS]

Empty weight of what ?Drop tanks ?

A brief description about these is below:

Manufacturer's empty weight (MEW)
Also called Manufacturer's Weight Empty (MWE) or Licensed Empty Weight

It is the weight of the aircraft "as built" and includes the weight of the structure, power plant, furnishings, installations, systems and other equipment that are considered an integral part of an aircraft.

This excludes any baggage, passengers, or usable fuel2.

Zero-fuel weight (ZFW)

This is the total weight of the airplane and all its contents (including unusable fuel), but excluding the total weight of the usable fuel on board.

As a flight progresses and fuel is consumed, the total weight of the airplane reduces, but the ZFW remains constant.

Maximum zero fuel weight (MZFW) is the maximum weight allowed before usable fuel and other specified usable agents (engine injection fluid, and other consumable propulsion agents) are loaded.

Operating empty weight (OEW) (Roughly equivalent to basic empty weight on light aircraft)

It is the basic weight of an aircraft including the crew, all fluids necessary for operation such as engine oil, engine coolant, water, unusable fuel and all operator items and equipment required for flight but excluding usable fuel and the payload.

Payload

It is the carrying capacity of an aircraft. It includes cargo, people, extra fuel. In the case of a commercial airliner, it may refer only to revenue-generating cargo or paying passengers.

Maximum takeoff weight (MTOW)

This is the maximum weight at which the pilot of the aircraft is allowed to attempt to take off3.

Regulated takeoff weight (RTOW)

Depending on different factors (e.g. flap setting, altitude, air temperature, length of runway), RTOW or maximum permissible takeoff weight varies for each takeoff. It can never be higher than MTOW. More information is on this answer.

Maximum landing weight (MLW)

This maximum weight at which an aircraft is permitted to land3.

The following image depicts takeoff weight components.

Image Source

Maximum ramp weight (MRW)
also called maximum taxi weight (MTW)

It is the maximum weight authorized for maneuvering (taxiing or towing) an aircraft on the ground.

Aircraft gross weight

It is the total aircraft weight at any moment during the flight or ground operation. This decreases during flight due to fuel and oil consumption.

So you want to say TWR s not standardised across platforms. Also an aircraft can have dozens of twr figures depending upon the weight load it is carrying at that time. Am I assuming correct?
Good to learn

Yes You got It Correct finally

 

[HariPrasad-1]

@HariPrasad-1 lets hope for the best. But don’t expect too much.


I learn new things on this forum every day. New ways to boost TWR using drop tanks is the newest.:biggrin2:

Any reason for not expecting the detailed aerodynamic study conclusions not being implemented?

 

[AbRaj]

A brief description about these is below:

Manufacturer's empty weight (MEW)
Also called Manufacturer's Weight Empty (MWE) or Licensed Empty Weight

It is the weight of the aircraft "as built" and includes the weight of the structure, power plant, furnishings, installations, systems and other equipment that are considered an integral part of an aircraft.

This excludes any baggage, passengers, or usable fuel2.

Zero-fuel weight (ZFW)

This is the total weight of the airplane and all its contents (including unusable fuel), but excluding the total weight of the usable fuel on board.

As a flight progresses and fuel is consumed, the total weight of the airplane reduces, but the ZFW remains constant.

Maximum zero fuel weight (MZFW) is the maximum weight allowed before usable fuel and other specified usable agents (engine injection fluid, and other consumable propulsion agents) are loaded.

Operating empty weight (OEW) (Roughly equivalent to basic empty weight on light aircraft)

It is the basic weight of an aircraft including the crew, all fluids necessary for operation such as engine oil, engine coolant, water, unusable fuel and all operator items and equipment required for flight but excluding usable fuel and the payload.

Payload

It is the carrying capacity of an aircraft. It includes cargo, people, extra fuel. In the case of a commercial airliner, it may refer only to revenue-generating cargo or paying passengers.

Maximum takeoff weight (MTOW)

This is the maximum weight at which the pilot of the aircraft is allowed to attempt to take off3.

Regulated takeoff weight (RTOW)

Depending on different factors (e.g. flap setting, altitude, air temperature, length of runway), RTOW or maximum permissible takeoff weight varies for each takeoff. It can never be higher than MTOW. More information is on this answer.

Maximum landing weight (MLW)

This maximum weight at which an aircraft is permitted to land3.

The following image depicts takeoff weight components.

Image Source

Maximum ramp weight (MRW)
also called maximum taxi weight (MTW)

It is the maximum weight authorized for maneuvering (taxiing or towing) an aircraft on the ground.

Aircraft gross weight

It is the total aircraft weight at any moment during the flight or ground operation. This decreases during flight due to fuel and oil consumption.

Yes You got It Correct finally

So which weight is used calculate TWR? MEW, MTOW, MLW or gross wt ?
Have you ever heard dozens of TWR for different weight configurations for any aircraft?
If yes , please mention (link)

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Its Available I posted it in MKI thread

Yes, this is an old one but some people didn't know and kept arguing. That is why.

 

[AbRaj]

Any reason for not expecting the detailed aerodynamic study conclusions not being implemented?

It’s theoretical. There are multiple hidden variables, which may affect the outcome. That’s why they say paper design.
My simple suggestion is don’t youse the future modifications which are not yet implemented, to compare with the present or past . There is a good possibility that by the time all these materialise, F16 will be out of service and we have to compare with something entirely different.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

It’s theoretical. There are multiple hidden variables, which may affect the outcome. That’s why they say paper design.

Do you know many such study outcomes are already implemented? Can you explain those hidden variables? Any reason if there are hidden variables then why the variables which are not hidden can not be implemented?

 

[lcafanboy]

One more thing that intrigued me is that why R-77 is not integrated on Tejas FOC, Tejas IOC versions. Is it because the ELTA-2032 radar cannot guide the missile for such long distances (over 100 km) ?

LCA Tejas will be integrated with I Derby-ER which has much longer range (almost 80% range of meteor), so no issue for radar guidance. Issue is with source codes. Russians and Israelis won't allow integration of each others systems for confidentiality purpose....

 

[WARREN SS]

So which wait is used calculate TWR? MEW, MTOW, MLW or gross wt ?

Calculation Formula is one its changes With Weight
And Mission Load

You cannot have Same TWR for A-to-G And A-to-A

 

[LurkerBaba]

@AbRaj Cut down on the flamebaits

 

[Neeraj Mathur]

HVT Update


LCA Mk-1A cockpit is finalized and getting ready. 3-Smart-MFD glass cockpit. Contract is finalised. It'll get signed in a couple of months, subject to procedural delays only.

 

[AbRaj]

@AbRaj Cut down on the flamebaits

It was not a flamebait. @WARREN SS was sharing his knowledge of propulsion with us.
Don’t you think he is very knowledgable person.

 

[LurkerBaba]

It was not a flamebait. @WARREN SS was sharing his knowledge of propulsion with us.
Don’t you think he is very knowledgable person.

Banned for a month.............

 

[Bleh]

HAL UNITS TO RESUME WORK FROM APRIL 20

By Hemanth CS, Bangalore Mirror Bureau | Updated: Apr 17, 2020, 06.00 AM IST

The country’s sole aircraft manufacturer Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) would commence operations from April 20, after being shut down for almost a month.

The Bengaluru headquartered defence Public sector undertakings (PSU), had stopped functioning due to the Covid-19 outbreak across the country from March 24 onwards.
The employees of HAL including the casual/contract labour belonging to various units, including Bengaluru will commence work in staggering shifts.

The resumption of work has been approved with the view that any further suspension of work will adversely affect the operational capability of the country’s armed forces.

“In line with the consolidated revised guidelines issued via MHA order, dated April 15 and the fact that any further suspension of work will adversely affect the operational capability of the armed forces, divisions/offices located at Bengaluru and Kanpur many also resume work from start of shift with effect from April 20 in staggered shifts. The said aggarnments would be in operation from start of shift on April 20 till closure of shift on May 3,” stated a work resumption order issued by the HAL Human Resource Department.

During the period between April 20 and May 3, HAL employees would have to follow a few Standard Operating Procedure (SOP) which include, divisions and offices to work in two or three shifts as per the requirements and maintain social distancing.

Each shift will be for five hours duration, with a gap of half an hour between the shifts (eg 7 am to 12 noon, 12.30 pm to 5.30 pm, 6 pm to 11 pm etc).
During this period there would be no canteen services provided to the employees for tea/coffee in the middle of the shifts.

All employees would have to undergo compulsory screening through the gate and thermal scanner.

“Divisions/Offices need to ensure that adequate distance is maintained amongst employees while recording attendance through card reader or swiping the card. Attendance details will be fetched from the system. No biometric punching or signing the attendance register is allowed,” the order read.

It further stated that employees will use their own vehicles for commuting between residence to office and back.
The order also noted that employees who stay outside the townships and reside in areas notified as hotspot by the respective State governments, would be exempted from attending the duty.

 

[rohit b3]

So I had a question..if anyone can convincingly answer that..
We know that Tejas's empty weight is 6560 Kgs and fuel capacity is 2458 kgs. So the gross total weight should be 9018 kgs. However, Wiki and many other places state that the Gross Weight is 9800 kgs. So where does this extra 782 kgs weight come from?
Secondly, someone edited Wiki and now the Empty Weight shows 5450 Kgs. Can someone verify?

 

[Saichand K]

So I had a question..if anyone can convincingly answer that..
We know that Tejas's empty weight is 6560 Kgs and fuel capacity is 2458 kgs. So the gross total weight should be 9018 kgs. However, Wiki and many other places state that the Gross Weight is 9800 kgs. So where does this extra 782 kgs weight come from?
Secondly, someone edited Wiki and now the Empty Weight shows 5450 Kgs. Can someone verify?

Empty weight: 6500kg
Internal fuel: 2500kg
Pilot: 100kg
Cannon ammunition: 65kg
Chaff/flare: 35 kg
Pylons: 300kg
2 CCM with launchers: 300kg
Total: 9800kg

Source: Sankum (BR Forum)

 

[rohit b3]

Empty weight: 6500kg
Internal fuel: 2500kg
Pilot: 100kg
Cannon ammunition: 65kg
Chaff/flare: 35 kg
Pylons: 300kg
2 CCM with launchers: 300kg
Total: 9800kg

Source: Sankum (BR Forum)

Perfect! Exactly what i wanted to know. Thanks!

 

[Saichand K]

Perfect! Exactly what i wanted to know. Thanks!

5450 kgs I guess is expected weight of Mk1A version. Dunno how much of it can be realized practically...

 

[varun9509]

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[Neeraj Mathur]

HVT Update

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