LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

WARREN SS

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Technically ADA/DARE just entered the game of developing 4th gen fighters. Already caught up to different competitors at many fronts, especially FCS, avionics, .

I should not have made assumptions.
How Do you think We Get there

We are Basically Modifying And upgrading Tech We got from Russian and Israel
they are Lenient on us on IP's
But I retract my statements on D-29. ADA India have made very good progress on AESA radar, avionics, FCS software etc. EW and AI are being stressed upon and we have the basic experience & talent base.
D-29 Basically A hybrid Many of its Components are Imported first Like Modules from Italian ELT

Later LRDE Modified system And created Our own version Like Greenpine radar Became Swordfish LRTR
 

Longewala

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My opinion is based on someone else's opinion who knows these kinds of stuff better than your or me. :) . IAF pilots were very impressed with Gripen and Rafale because of the sensor fusion in both of these aircrafts. Tejas doesn't come close to it. Infact Tejas doesn't come close to even m2k upgraded ones. Maybe Tejas mk1a will be better.
Viggen was nowhere close to f-16 or mirage 2k or even f-1.
Maybe Sweden should have just shut down their aerospace industry in the 79s / 80s, bought foreign and we wouldn't have to deal with these pointless comparisons between Tejas and another "similar" product by a country with decades longer r&d history, several earlier projects, and far higher domestic industry capability, r&d funding as well as foreign technological support
 

Karthi

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Gripen is the only Aircraft which got a GaN EW suite . GaN AESA , it's capabilities are (what Saab claims) second to only F35 in avionics.
 

Kchontha

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Tejas mk1a will be getting Israelis ELL-8222WB electronic warfare (EW) suites not imdegenous one because of space constraints.
 

Longewala

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Need to differentiate here between two things:
Aircraft design
Electronics, sensors and user interface

I would suspect based on Tejas mk-1a, and the designs in the pipeline, India has almost caught up with most other countries on the first parameter

With respect to the second, work in progress but something where would catch up by the AMCA project?
 

Bleh

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Tejas mk1a will be getting Israelis ELL-8222WB electronic warfare (EW) suites not imdegenous one because of space constraints.
Same as this one? What differences between SB and WB versions?

Questions: @porky_kicker @Karthi
Can the NGARM be converted to a passive BVRAAM? To be sent towards enemy fighter/AWACS homing towards its radar, so enemy will recieve no radar warning other than MAWS (only works for WVR range)... Fire-and-Forget with no midcourse guidance... Dual pulse with active radar homing in terminal phase.
 
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Karthi

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Need to differentiate here between two things:
Aircraft design
Electronics, sensors and user interface

I would suspect based on Tejas mk-1a, and the designs in the pipeline, India has almost caught up with most other countries on the first parameter

With respect to the second, work in progress but something where would catch up by the AMCA project?
We have developed EW systems in 90s , Samyuktha , D29 are world class , GaN TRMs already developed , UTTAM also a good AESA Radar , we developed MAWS , RWR etc only need time and money to make it more lethal
 

Karthi

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Same as this one? What differences between SB and WB versions?



Questions: @porky_kicker @Karthi
Can the NGARM be converted to a passive BVRAAM? To be sent towards enemy fighter/AWACS homing towards its radar, so enemy will recieve no radar warning other than MAWS (only works for WVR range)... Fire-and-Forget with no midcourse guidance... Dual pulse with active radar homing in terminal phase.

Russia developed/ under development Anti Radiation AAMs for Su 57 . But I won't think we can use NGRAM as AAM cos of aerodynamics/ Seeker sensitivity . We can develop a new AAM missile based on ASTRA , I Don't think current NGRAM seeker is sensitive enough to lock on to Airborne AESA Radar (Not sure). Soviet union developed one in 70-80s with ranges of 100Km. But personally I think we must develop one AR AAM , so that we can fire two ASTRA Missile with two different homing methods , AR missile is inherently Stealthy so that better possibilities. For kill .
 

abhay rajput

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Why cant they be compared? Can you please explain. Do you even know that upgadded version of ramjet powered Akash Mk1 is duel pulse motor powered Akash Mk2 with greater range ? Meteor is currently best but the difference between Astra mk2 and meteor will not be so great that both can't be compared. And the important things to be kept in mind is that meteor is not famous and deadliest because of ramjet engine only. it is famous and deadly because of a lots of high quality sensors , data links and seeaker etc it uses.
Astra mk2 would be only as good as I derby er . Meteor is in different league. No mainly it's ramjet motor because missiles burn for only few seconds, but if you can sustain thrust for a while then you would have tremendous kinetic energy near a maneuverable aircraft. Do you know nobody is talking about meteor those capabilities which you have mentioned because it doesn't matter much. Even our own Astra got everything state of the art except seeker. Your comments about Akash missile , I am not gonna even comment on that.
 

abhay rajput

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Viggen was nowhere close to f-16 or mirage 2k or even f-1.
Maybe Sweden should have just shut down their aerospace industry in the 79s / 80s, bought foreign and we wouldn't have to deal with these pointless comparisons between Tejas and another "similar" product by a country with decades longer r&d history, several earlier projects, and far higher domestic industry capability, r&d funding as well as foreign technological support
That's your reply . Okay whatever you say i agree completely :)
 

WARREN SS

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AMRAAM Integration into LCA-Tejas Mk1A

1587829670123.png


India has been cleared to acquire Integrated Air Defense Weapon System (IADWS) which is the advanced form of National Advanced Surface to Air Missile System (NASAMS-II) along with it will it India has been cleared to get two main and important weapons system in the package that are 118 AIM-120C-7 and AIM-120C-8 missiles which are latest Beyond Visual range Air-to-Air missile with no external changes then what is used on fighter jets. LCA-Tejas Mk1A will be getting India’s Astra Mk1 BVRAAM which according to developers of the missile system is comparable to the AIM-120C-5 which is used by Pakistani Air Force F-16 fleet in terms of range and technical specifications. India has decided not to integrate Russian BVRAAMs like R-77 and R-37 due to performance issues but has tested an older version of the Derby BVRAAM which was originally procured for the Sea Harrier upgrade program which now has been retired from Tejas Mk1 aircraft.

Israel has offered India its upgraded I-Derby BVRAAMs which has double the range and according to weapons maker offers 80% of the operational performance of the Meteor air-to-air missiles which are super exclusive to the 36 Dassault Rafale at least till now since MBDA the makers of the weapons system do not want to clear it for integration with India’s Su-30MKI and Tejas Mk1A fleet anytime soon.

So India is left practically with only one option that is I-Derby BVRAAM. DRDO has promised to double the range of future variants of Astra BVRAAMs and according to certain media reports a Dual-Pulse motor with additional booster might be offered as Astra Mk2 with a range of around 140-150km against fighter-sized aircraft and Solid Fuel Ducted Ramjet (SFDR) which DRDO is developing with Russia and is equipped with solid fuelled air-breathing ramjet engine might become Astra Mk3 in near future with a range from 140-300km for fighter and AWACS sized targets.

Technical flexibility Tejas Mk1A will come equipped with Israeli ELA ELTA-2052 AESA Fire Control Radar which already has been integrated with the ARMAAM variant due to Israeli manufacture which also needs to cater to both Israeli origin BVRAAMs and AMRAAM which are used by the Israeli Air force. South Korean FA-50 which is Light attack/fighter version equipped with EL/M-2032 multimode planar array fire-control radar which is used in current Tejas MK1 use AIM-120 AMRAAM as its main BVRAAM on its FA-50 Block 20 variant which is still in work and interestingly also offered Israeli ELA ELTA-2052 AESA Fire Control Radar if any prospective customer desired to have an AESA Radar instead of older EL/M-2032 fire-control radar, which at least confirms that technically at least it’s viable.

Americans Clearance AMRAAM Family has been integrated into Non-American fighter jets like Saab’s Gripen and Gripen-E, Euro-Fighter Typhoon, and light class fighter jet aircraft like FA-50. so It is unlikely Americans will object in the integration of AMRAAMs on the LCA-Tejas Mk1A and Mk2 soon since we are already getting them in another form. Why AMRAAM? Astra Mk1 BVRAAM which is comparable to AIM-120C-5 is a commendable achievement for the DRDO and India but the amount of time take to reach also suggests the development of smaller missile systems particularly air to air weapons are not so easy and the future variant of Astra will take no time to come. Astra Mk1 BVRAAM production is yet to be scaled up and it still has entered only limited scale production and as per media reports initially will be cleared only with the Su-30MKI fleet and later will move to LCA-Tejas Mk1A and Mk2. Production constraints will ensure that Tejas Mk1A will feature either Israeli I-Derby BVRAAM or the older Derby BVRAAM till the scale of Astra production is scaled up and IAF places orders in larger numbers. Astra Mk2 and Astra Mk3 won’t be available at least for the next 7-10 years which means Tejas Mk1A and Mk2 will have to rely on at least one foreign-made BVRAAM along with Astra MK1. AIM-120C-7 and AIM-120C-8 are way superior then Astra MK1 in terms of range and technical specifications and is the system which we are already getting in the country.


Conclusion

Until Astra Mk1 are mass-produced and until Mk2 and Mk3 arrive in the picture, Tejas Mk1A will require a foreign BVRAAM it can be I-Derby BVRAAM or AMRAAMs, even when Astra Mk1 is available in large numbers just to maintain a rigid combo of BVRAAMs it will continue to have secondary missile as a back up until off course Astra Mk2 and Mk3 arrives.

If Go For F/A -18 In Navy Or MMRCA Deal We Should See Make this clause in Deal
 

Bleh

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AMRAAM Integration into LCA-Tejas Mk1A
1587829670123.png

If Go For F/A -18 In Navy Or MMRCA Deal We Should See Make this clause in Deal
This option (along with possibly F414 ToT) will really open up, if F-18 is chosen as MMRCA. Otherwise US will not allow sale. I am no shill, but I really feel like shilling for F-18 right now.

With its present cost, availability, reliability, maintainability, user friendlyness etc. if TejEx can boast compatibility with Derby-AMRAAM-R77-Astra-Meteor(maybe) along with ASRAAM-R73/K74 combo then it can take on even F-35 in the international market. o_O
 
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varun9509

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This guy is good. Explains well too.

Screenshot from the video. :frog:
View attachment 46393
One thing I want to know, about the drag generated by Air intake, what is the actual problem, is it geometry, or the area? And can it not be fixed in Mk1a, we still have time? I mean we now know about the delta of Tejas very well because of the extensive testing, can't it be tweaked a bit?
 

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