Know Your 'Rafale'

[omaebakabaka]

So basically French bowed down to the pressure of China. Thanks for confirming that too finally. Today it's Taiwan tomorrow it will be someone else.

They did with Russian's too on Mistral heli carriers. With that said, I have respect for US and Russia as they act out of their interests and generally defend it. Whether they are right or wrong is a different matter....rest are just 2nd tier...

 

[Sridhar_TN]

Read with your eyes open this post is abt Mirage and Mig 29UPG upgrade but since you have already hijacked the point don't quote me.

Well everyone does read with their eyes open. I swear, I hate it when people try to insult jab as a response.

There’s no hijacking the point. The iAf gave up the mirages for the rafale a long time ago. Which is why the rafales were selected instead of the mirage. Which is why I keep referring to rafales instead of mirages. Can’t help it if you’re stuck in the past and keep talking about mirages.

 

[Sridhar_TN]

We already have 75-80% availability rate with Mig 29s there is no need to pay to them for that.

Mig -35 would have come with the same clause if selected so did Gripen or any other jet and they participated in the tender knowing that.

Fake news what ? Lmao

Wrong what ? Lol





So atlast you admitted after all the lies and denial.

Taiwan and India both are doing it due to varied reason. No one is going to just throw the money they have already spent to procure them for the reason of not maintaining them.





India is inducting 33 more of those russian birds too and have over 350+ of them.

Anyway since you have again jumped off from the topic in hand.

I'll repeat myself French birds are too expensive in comparison to American which are much better but due to political reason we generally avoid them and pay a premium for French birds.

One of the reason Taiwan made a deal for new F-16s not Rafales or Mirage 2k.

80% availability of the mig is a joke. Ludachris. The navy is fed up with the mig29k’s. It desperately wants out for non Russian fighters. The saving grace is a few mig29 UPG’s which is good only for interception.
The UPG’s will never be able to perform the role of a mirage or a rafale.

You’re wrong again. If you say American fighters are better than French ones, which fighter are you talking about? F35?F22? Maybe those two.
If you say f18s, f16’s or f15’s are better than rafale, you’re certainly not well informed.
The rafale is far closer to F35 than any aircraft out there. Which is why all the F series aircraft wait till standoff strikes are launched to establish air dominance, while the rafale went straight into hostile airspace in Libya.

 

[omaebakabaka]

80% availability of the mig is a joke. Ludachris. The navy is fed up with the mig29k’s. It desperately wants out for non Russian fighters. The saving grace is a few mig29 UPG’s which is good only for interception.
The UPG’s will never be able to perform the role of a mirage or a rafale.

You’re wrong again. If you say American fighters are better than French ones, which fighter are you talking about? F35?F22? Maybe those two.
If you say f18s, f16’s or f15’s are better than rafale, you’re certainly not well informed.
The rafale is far closer to F35 than any aircraft out there. Which is why all the F series aircraft wait till standoff strikes are launched to establish air dominance, while the rafale went straight into hostile airspace in Libya.

Migs are dead platform unless India can secure deep tech partnering on mig 35 improvements. Barring their new interceptor project mig has no prospects in RAF. But India has no choice as far as carrier is concerned. Migs and preferably Tejas should be the only option. Mig 29 is poor man's subaru WRX vs RS4 or M3...decent for price.

You can't compare one on one Rafale to F-15 or F-18, better pilot and strategies will win. Mirages have high availability in India because they are marked as nuke carriers and they are selected for that reason because their servicability is better. US ones come with lot of bs conditions in usage. F-15 with proposed upgrades is very potent and F-18 is pretty evenly matched.

 

[BON PLAN]

That wasn't the only F-16 shootout , may be the only one accepted by the other party but does that make Mirage superior to F-16?

I said and confirm that the SOLE F16 shooted down in a air to air engagement was the fact of a M2000.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Soviet Mig 23 downed 1 PAF F-16 Afghanistan, 1987

Mig 21 IAF shot One F-16 in Feb 2019.

I confirm this too specially the second one.

I said and confirm that the SOLE F16 shooted down in a air to air engagement was the fact of a M2000.

Now Are you saying Mirage 2k is superior platform than F-16s ?

 

[BON PLAN]

Soviet Mig 23 downed 1 PAF F-16 Afghanistan, 1987

Mig 21 IAF shot One F-16 in Feb 2019.

I confirm this too specially the second one.

You're right for the F16 in 2019 ! I forget that. +1 !!!

For the other, Mig23 vs F16, first time I read that.

 

[BON PLAN]

Now Are you saying Mirage 2k is superior platform than F-16s ?

An analysis was made in 1999, when the M2000-5 was ready :
in WVR : F16 is superior in low altitude. The M2000 thank to its high ITR have to win on the very early fight, if not it degrades its energy and loose.
In medium and high altitude, M2000 was superior.

in BVR.... it's unclear. And quite secretive.

 

[Tactical Frog]

France has said afer the sale of 60 x M2000 to Taiwan that we will never supply another fighter because high pressures from China and Airbus purchase from China in the balance. It is called diplomacy.

Did we say that ? I can’t remember. Anyway, Dassault, Thales, Safran, Naval Group , none of them would ever do business again with Taiwan.

 

[BON PLAN]

Did we say that ? I can’t remember. Anyway, Dassault, Thales, Safran, Naval Group , none of them would ever do business again with Taiwan.

It's the french government.

 

[AmoghaVarsha]

It's the french government.

What are the chances French govt will say the same to India?

 

[Flying Dagger]

You're right for the F16 in 2019 ! I forget that. +1 !!!

For the other, Mig23 vs F16, first time I read that.

1987 : 4 Mig 23 vs 2 F-16 Afghan Pak border.

One F-16 was downed PAF and America claimed it was shot down by his wingman accidentally.

Soviet claimed Mig 23 did that.

An analysis was made in 1999, when the M2000-5 was ready :
in WVR : F16 is superior in low altitude. The M2000 thank to its high ITR have to win on the very early fight, if not it degrades its energy and loose.
In medium and high altitude, M2000 was superior.

in BVR.... it's unclear. And quite secretive.

So basically F-16 are better but at the end it's the training which counts. That's why Greek manage to take Turkish F-16 down.

IAF also had Mirage vs Mig 29 which resulted in Mig 29 over powering Mirages in all scenarios except a2g capability.

 

[BON PLAN]

What are the chances French govt will say the same to India?

Zero chance.

At the time the Chirac Govt decided not to sale more front line weapons to Taiwan, China was seen as quite peacefull, and a real commercial partner.
It's now crystal clear it's not.
We now see china as a potential threat (and a real commercial threat), so as USA, we will remain in the opposite side, ie India, Japan, South Korea, Australia....

 

[BON PLAN]

1987 : 4 Mig 23 vs 2 F-16 Afghan Pak border.

One F-16 was downed PAF and America claimed it was shot down by his wingman accidentally.

Soviet claimed Mig 23 did that.

OK ! thanks.

 

[BON PLAN]

So basically F-16 are better but at the end it's the training which counts. That's why Greek manage to take Turkish F-16 down.

NO. Basically F16 is better in low altitude and Mirage better in med and high.

In BVR no one knows. Except bk 60, the M2000-5 radar is better. The range of MICA is shorter to AMRAAM one, but no one upon us know with what kind of pk... (the French always said that during training against AMRAAM users, the pk used was strangely high...). So.....

Just another point : if I remember well, the AMRAAM was never used at more than 50km range..... if ever.

 

[BON PLAN]

IAF also had Mirage vs Mig 29 which resulted in Mig 29 over powering Mirages in all scenarios except a2g capability.

Only in WVR, and only before a helmet was integrated on M2000.

The mig 29 had, for decades, the sole real asset to have a helmet to target short range AAM (it was a shock inside the NATO army when they tested the ex east germany Mig 29 after the iron wall collapse...) It's now over.

 

[patriots]

@BON PLAN bro Taiwan says f16 comes with amraam which has greter range than mica rf of mk2000
Iaf also operates mk2000 with mica rf....
Does iaf have mica ng....
What's mica ng range ...
It's said that mica has better range than sd10

 

[Flying Dagger]

@BON PLAN bro Taiwan says f16 comes with amraam which has greter range than mica rf of mk2000
Iaf also operates mk2000 with mica rf....
Does iaf have mica ng....
What's mica ng range ...
It's said that mica has better range than sd10

MICA NG is in dev.

Yes AMRAAM has superior range upto double if 120D model is offered to Taiwan.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Only in WVR, and only before a helmet was integrated on M2000.

The mig 29 had, for decades, the sole real asset to have a helmet to target short range AAM (it was a shock inside the NATO army when they tested the ex east germany Mig 29 after the iron wall collapse...) It's now over.

WVR - Yes it enjoyed superiority for decades due to Russian IR missiles which made IAF employ the same R-73 on Mirage 2k.

But it's not just the helmet but the aircraft itself with high T/w ratio the high thrust engines provide it advantage in wvr against M2k.

 

[Rohan Naik]

It's the french government.

Taiwan gives us money, we buy planes from France, later give them to Taiwan.. What say?