Know Your 'Rafale'

[Poseidon]

Pakistanis CLAIMNG including former ACM sohail in vedio interview
That PAF will always have look first , Shoot first GAP over IAF
i think they mean block 3 Thunder with PL12 /15 have 200km BVR range thus out ranging in theory the meteore missles on a rafale
They simply dont rate russian BVRS ( i dont either)

If you listen to the interview of that clown Aman, it becomes clear they realize that PL-15 will never be able to match kinematic performance of Meteor hence his entire arguement on first shot advantage was based on tactics (which means PAF will rely on aircrafts speed and altitude to impart more energy to A-A missiles thus to get more range out of their missiles, plus they could use some ECM tactics too)
Thus his entire argument is failure because even in this case Rafale can impart much more energy to missile during launch than JF-17 BLK3, thanks to it's supercruisng ability which JF-17 BLK3 lacks completely.

The denial of Pak 'experts' about Rafale capabilities reminds me of their navy denying the importance of Indian Navy missile boats before 1971 war.

 

[Poseidon]

PL-15 has lower hit rate than even AIM-120D as per Rand Corporation study I saw some guy post on twitter.

 

[The Maverick]

Thank you to ALL THAT REPLIED.
I know i should stop listening to pak claims But sometimes feel we indians lack urgency in replacing junk be it out of date BVRs from russia or the MIG series of fighters.

FOR ME THE Tejas & Astra programmes are essential . WE CANNOT BE THE 4TH BIGGEST AIRPOWER on the planet and be 100% or 90% reliant on overseas technology

 

[BON PLAN]

Pakistanis CLAIMNG including former ACM sohail in vedio interview
That PAF will always have look first , Shoot first GAP over IAF
i think they mean block 3 Thunder with PL12 /15 have 200km BVR range thus out ranging in theory the meteore missles on a rafale
They simply dont rate russian BVRS ( i dont either)

Chinese AESA radar, PL12, PL15....
Only marketing datas (the chinese use the same arguments than LM with F35... only power point performances) : nothing more or less combat proven.

 

[Drsomnath999]

Only 364 Kms From Lhasa, 2nd Batch Of Rafale Jets At Hasimara Minutes Away From Critical Chinese Posts
Hasimara Air Force Station in West Bengal’s Alipurduar district is expected to house the second squadron of the Rafale jets to be received by end of mid-2021. The Hasimara airbase holds strategic importance as it lies only 364km away from Lhasa airport in Tibet’s capital.

Hasimara is under the operational command of the Shillong-based Eastern Air Command, which shares the security concerns of the Line of Actual Control (LAC) along with the Western Air Command and Prayagraj-based Central Air Command.
“The second base for Rafale is planned at Hashimara (West Bengal). Pakistan is not the real enemy as far airpower is concerned, but our eastern neighbor China is. When we didn’t have Rafale, we had moved three squadrons of Sukhoi in the east. With Rafale, we will have an adequate number of airborne fighters and fighter bombers to look after the China threat,” former Vice-Chief of Air Staff Air Marshal Barbora told The Tribune.

The first squadron of the French origin jets was received at the Ambala Air Force Station in Punjab. New Delhi has allocated a budget of Rs 400 crores for these two Air Force Stations to build facilities, develop shelters, hangers, and maintenance facilities to house the Rafale jets.
The Hasimara base was created after the 1962 Indo Sino war. It earlier had a MiG-27 squadron which is being now replaced by Rafales but it presently has no squadrons. Although, it has also housed several other fighter jets including Gnats, Ajeets, Hunters, MiG-21Bis, and the Mig-27 ML fighter jets.
“Earlier, it was planned that one squadron of the Rafale would be based out of the Sarsawa Air Force Station in Uttar Pradesh. However, issues relating to land acquisition eventually led to the selection of the Ambala Air Force Station to prepare itself for a two-front war in the northern side from Pakistan and China,” said Grp Captain (retd) R K Das. “We have some porous border in the Eastern sector, so Hasimara Air Force base being fortified,” he added.
After the recent clash at the LAC in Galwan valley, India has ramped up its military preparedness by making emergency procurement of munitions. Hasimara airbase is responsible for guarding the tiny Chicken’s Neck or the Siliguri Corridor in North Bengal, a narrow stretch of land about 22 kilometers wide that connects the country’s mainland with the northeastern states.
Nepal on the north and Bangladesh on the south. Hasimara base is also responsible for guarding the Nathula pass in Sikkim from the Chinese.

Only 364 Kms From Lhasa, 2nd Batch Of Rafale Jets At Hasimara Minutes Away From Critical Chinese Posts

Hasimara Air Force Station in West Bengal’s Alipurduar district is expected to house the second squadron of the Rafale jets to be received by end of mid-2021. The Hasimara airbase holds strategic importance as it lies only 364km away from Lhasa airport in Tibet’s capital. US Developing...

eurasiantimes.com

 

[BangaliBabu]

Only 364 Kms From Lhasa, 2nd Batch Of Rafale Jets At Hasimara Minutes Away From Critical Chinese Posts
Hasimara Air Force Station in West Bengal’s Alipurduar district is expected to house the second squadron of the Rafale jets to be received by end of mid-2021. The Hasimara airbase holds strategic importance as it lies only 364km away from Lhasa airport in Tibet’s capital.

Hasimara is under the operational command of the Shillong-based Eastern Air Command, which shares the security concerns of the Line of Actual Control (LAC) along with the Western Air Command and Prayagraj-based Central Air Command.
“The second base for Rafale is planned at Hashimara (West Bengal). Pakistan is not the real enemy as far airpower is concerned, but our eastern neighbor China is. When we didn’t have Rafale, we had moved three squadrons of Sukhoi in the east. With Rafale, we will have an adequate number of airborne fighters and fighter bombers to look after the China threat,” former Vice-Chief of Air Staff Air Marshal Barbora told The Tribune.

The first squadron of the French origin jets was received at the Ambala Air Force Station in Punjab. New Delhi has allocated a budget of Rs 400 crores for these two Air Force Stations to build facilities, develop shelters, hangers, and maintenance facilities to house the Rafale jets.
The Hasimara base was created after the 1962 Indo Sino war. It earlier had a MiG-27 squadron which is being now replaced by Rafales but it presently has no squadrons. Although, it has also housed several other fighter jets including Gnats, Ajeets, Hunters, MiG-21Bis, and the Mig-27 ML fighter jets.
“Earlier, it was planned that one squadron of the Rafale would be based out of the Sarsawa Air Force Station in Uttar Pradesh. However, issues relating to land acquisition eventually led to the selection of the Ambala Air Force Station to prepare itself for a two-front war in the northern side from Pakistan and China,” said Grp Captain (retd) R K Das. “We have some porous border in the Eastern sector, so Hasimara Air Force base being fortified,” he added.
After the recent clash at the LAC in Galwan valley, India has ramped up its military preparedness by making emergency procurement of munitions. Hasimara airbase is responsible for guarding the tiny Chicken’s Neck or the Siliguri Corridor in North Bengal, a narrow stretch of land about 22 kilometers wide that connects the country’s mainland with the northeastern states.
Nepal on the north and Bangladesh on the south. Hasimara base is also responsible for guarding the Nathula pass in Sikkim from the Chinese.

Only 364 Kms From Lhasa, 2nd Batch Of Rafale Jets At Hasimara Minutes Away From Critical Chinese Posts

Hasimara Air Force Station in West Bengal’s Alipurduar district is expected to house the second squadron of the Rafale jets to be received by end of mid-2021. The Hasimara airbase holds strategic importance as it lies only 364km away from Lhasa airport in Tibet’s capital. US Developing...

eurasiantimes.com

Alipurduar is a Jihadi place. Consider a mini-Bangladesh or a mini-Pakistan. ISI will have a field day smelling the assets with the help of TMC gundagiri. That place needs to be napalmed to ashes first.

 

[WolfPack86]

JUST IN: India’s Rafale fighters to be formally inducted on September 10 at Ambala, reports
@ajitkdubey
, The induction into the 17 Squadron will be by defence minister
@RajnathSingh
, French defence minister
@Florence_parly
also likely to be there.

 

[fire starter]

 

[Tupac slayer]

Dassault has no interest in manufacturing in India. They picked Anil Ambani for a reason, the guy is short of money and would go along with their plan of essentially doing screwdrivergiri( if that) and allow the French to get their money and add a premium for local manufacturing of which Anil Ambani would get some. All the crap about HAL is just that. Crappy excuses. They don’t pick HAL, they don’t pick Tata, they don’t pick L&T, they don’t pick Mahindra. They pick a bankrupt guy. Go figure.

It is expected from a company who has invested lot of R&D in manufacture of a product, French took advantage of two things, One falling squadrons which could not be stopped, unless we buy an aircraft directly from OEM. France has made it very clear that they can consider a production line in India if orders goes in three digits. economies of scale.

 

[Tupac slayer]

My worries about Rafale are entirely different, I hope we dont lose any rafales to PNS Mehran type attack by Fidayeen who armed with RPG will try to destroy our aircraft on ground, leading to loss of precious aircraft. I hope there are enough number of guards placed at Hasimara AFS and Ambala AFS. We once got lucky in Pathankot AFS. We must take corrective steps, Definitely Pakistan based terror groups will target our Rafale squadrons bases on the behest of Pakistan Armed forces.

 

[asingha94]

Off topic. Just for fun

 

[A chauhan]

Four more Rafales ...!

 

[Flying Dagger]

too small range with just a single small external tank.

Fact: Let's not forget IAF originally wanted 200+ Mirage 2k for this deal.

Anyway Its good enough for our western border and were ready to make it here with HAL as well with full tot except those they had imported like engine etc. For which we could have gone to GE directly for engine production in India.

Last time we made deal for howitzers and they did fulfilled their promises of tech transfer.

Fact : All companies had middlemen and Dassault had a good jet and good middlemen.

No one can forget the Mirage deal for almost 40-45 mn a piece we upgraded them while Russia gave a much better deal for deep upgrade of Mig29 that included new engines for approx 15 mn around.

Another reason was fanboys who rightly predicted that IAF may cut down Tejas orders if Gripen production line start here as it may run for 200+

Many articles came out in media that time that we already have a similar product so there is no need to go for Gripen.

And that's how we effectively killed it.

In current scenario Rafale is a good choice for IAF as stopgap till Tejas production hits 20 a year.

 

[BON PLAN]

Fact: Let's not forget IAF originally wanted 200+ Mirage 2k for this deal.

Anyway Its good enough for our western border and were ready to make it here with HAL as well with full tot except those they had imported like engine etc. For which we could have gone to GE directly for engine production in India.

Last time we made deal for howitzers and they did fulfilled their promises of tech transfer.

Fact : All companies had middlemen and Dassault had a good jet and good middlemen.

No one can forget the Mirage deal for almost 40-45 mn a piece we upgraded them while Russia gave a much better deal for deep upgrade of Mig29 that included new engines for approx 15 mn around.

Another reason was fanboys who rightly predicted that IAF may cut down Tejas orders if Gripen production line start here as it may run for 200+

Many articles came out in media that time that we already have a similar product so there is no need to go for Gripen.

And that's how we effectively killed it.

In current scenario Rafale is a good choice for IAF as stopgap till Tejas production hits 20 a year.

My answer was just to explain why a possible integration of Meteor under the 2 hard points of the M2000 wings is not a so good idea : it only leaves space for a single small ext. tanks. And as Meteor is longer than MICA, it can be fitted under the frame as Mica.

I think India agree a costlier upgrade of M2000 versus Mig because the M2000 reliability is far greater (One M2000 = 1,5 or 2 Mig29 in that area) and probably more effectiveness. M2000 remains a big asset for IAF.

 

[BON PLAN]

It is expected from a company who has invested lot of R&D in manufacture of a product, French took advantage of two things, One falling squadrons which could not be stopped, unless we buy an aircraft directly from OEM. France has made it very clear that they can consider a production line in India if orders goes in three digits. economies of scale.

A french forumer, retired from Dassault, very well informed, said us some months ago that once the Reliance DA enterprise is on duty (it's the case), an assembly line could be imagine with just a 36 units order.

 

[omaebakabaka]

My worries about Rafale are entirely different, I hope we dont lose any rafales to PNS Mehran type attack by Fidayeen "

I share your concern.....our bases and institutions are in crowded places and encroached from all directions....they should sanitize and clear perimeters under National Security Emergency and they should move families to the outer perimeter and install guard towers and motion sensors, cameras and everything else thats all available now to secure these things. Give side arms to able folks in outer perimeter....for gods sake these are defence personnel.....Why don't they consider something like pantsir -SM? Not that expensive for a force of our size?

 

[WolfPack86]

Second Batch of Rafale Fighter Jets From France To Arrive In India In October
New Delhi: The second batch of Rafale fighter jets — likely to be four in number — is set to arrive at the Ambala Air Force Station in October as part of the Rs 59,000-crore deal with the French government, ThePrint has learnt.




These will land here after the formal induction ceremony of the first five Rafale fighters, which is to be held on 10 September. The ceremony would be attended by Defence Minister Rajnath Singh and his French counterpart Florence Parly.



Sources in the defence and security establishment said the French defence minister has already confirmed her presence.



Sources said once the ceremony is done, the next set of Rafale fighters would arrive in October. “The next set of fighters, which are likely to be four in number, will arrive in the country in October,” a source said.



Five Rafale jets, including two twin-seaters, had landed on 29 July at the Ambala Air Force Station, home of the first squadron of the French fighters.



They had flown 8,500 km from Merignac in France, with a stopover in UAE.

The Rafales



Known as the 4.5 generation aircraft, the Rafale is considered to be one of the finest fighters in the world and is described as an ‘omni-role’ aircraft that can take up several missions on a single flight.



While India had ordered 36 Rafale fighters in 2016, the numbers are just too small for the IAF, which at present has a strength of 31 squadrons as against the sanctioned one of 42 Squadrons.



Even though the IAF is supposed to come out with a Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) 2.0 for 114 fighters, work on it has been rather slow with a formal tender yet to be issued.



ThePrint had reported that this tender could take time and the main focus right now is to firm up the order of 83 TEJAS Mk-1A.



Meanwhile, talks of additional 36 Rafale fighters have also been doing the rounds for long in defence corridors.

Second Batch of Rafale Fighter Jets From France To Arrive In India In October

New Delhi: The second batch of Rafale fighter jets — likely to be four in number — is set to arrive at the Ambala Air Force Station i...

www.indiandefensenews.in

 

[Flying Dagger]

My answer was just to explain why a possible integration of Meteor under the 2 hard points of the M2000 wings is not a so good idea : it only leaves space for a single small ext. tanks. And as Meteor is longer than MICA, it can be fitted under the frame as Mica.

I think India agree a costlier upgrade of M2000 versus Mig because the M2000 reliability is far greater (One M2000 = 1,5 or 2 Mig29 in that area) and probably more effectiveness. M2000 remains a big asset for IAF.

Not true the costlier upgrade were approved due to kickbacks and milking the situation. We had this discussion earlier too and there is no point in going through it again.

As far as reliability is concerned the upgraded Mig 29s have almost same availability rate as Mirage 2k with lesser spending to maintain them annually one of the reason One additional Sqd will join in next year.

Even Taiwan confirm that Mirage are pretty costly to maintain in comparison to F-16s. Here you wish to apply the same 1 Mirage = 2F-16 logic?

While in A2A it outperforms Mirage , in strike role also it wasn't bad either in last year exercise by IAF.

 

[Drsomnath999]

Second batch of Rafale fighter jets from France to arrive in India in October

The formal induction ceremony of the first 5 Rafale fighters is to be held at the Ambala Air Station on 10 September.

theprint.in

 

[omaebakabaka]

As far as reliability is concerned the upgraded Mig 29s have almost same availability rate as Mirage 2k with lesser spending to maintain them annually one of the reason One additional Sqd will join in next year.

Migs are dead platform for now....Russian Airforce has not purchased any mig in over a decade other than prototypes. Their only chance is to come up with new interceptor to replace 31's. If Indians are smart they would negotiate smartly to make them sell tech and purchase them in numbers to replace 21's, jags, 27s and mirages too over time. It is a fine aircraft.

The way I see it:

Light fighters: Tejas (there is no option for India other than getting our own aircraft industry in place)
Interceptors: Mig 29/35 (future highspeed mig-41) -- good road map in theory
Heavy fighters: Sukhoi/Rafale (we need western tech to keep edge in tactics vs Chinese who are also Russian tech consumers)