Know Your 'Rafale'

[Gessler]

Can someone here explain how SPECTRA's active cancellation would work against an AESA radar? I know how active cancellation works in things like headphones, but I'm having a hard time seeing how SPECTRA would be able to react fast enough to effectively cancel out waves that travel at the speed of light. Can it effectively cancel out AESA radar waves?

I will quote something here:

"Electrons in a conductor travel very fast, but they do not travel at the speed of light. Thus, the electronic processing is not instantaneous. And thus you cannot use a full real time approach to achieve full cancellation (you would always be reacting to events with lag). But engineers know how to cheat!! A phase shift is the same thing as a time delay. To cancel the reflected signal all you have to do is calculate a good time to start emitting the exact same signal! The time you choose will be such that the two signals (reflected and yours) are 180 degrees out of phase and thus cancel one another. So their system simply needs to first analyze the incident radar signal and determine what it is, pull characteristics of it out of memory, and then do some final processing to account for attenuation of the reflected wave, doppler effect and such (the time needed for these calculations are also precalculated and used for the final phase shift). Then you start transmitting. A proper radar return is sent back while the upfront analysis is being done but after that - practically nothing. And if it shows up for a frame or two it won't really matter."

The processing power on the Rafale is continually upgraded. But whether it's enough to spoof AESA transmitters or not remains to be seen. I guess IAF will know soon enough.

 

[gryphus-scarface]

I will quote something here:

"Electrons in a conductor travel very fast, but they do not travel at the speed of light. Thus, the electronic processing is not instantaneous. And thus you cannot use a full real time approach to achieve full cancellation (you would always be reacting to events with lag). But engineers know how to cheat!! A phase shift is the same thing as a time delay. To cancel the reflected signal all you have to do is calculate a good time to start emitting the exact same signal! The time you choose will be such that the two signals (reflected and yours) are 180 degrees out of phase and thus cancel one another. So their system simply needs to first analyze the incident radar signal and determine what it is, pull characteristics of it out of memory, and then do some final processing to account for attenuation of the reflected wave, doppler effect and such (the time needed for these calculations are also precalculated and used for the final phase shift). Then you start transmitting. A proper radar return is sent back while the upfront analysis is being done but after that - practically nothing. And if it shows up for a frame or two it won't really matter."

The processing power on the Rafale is continually upgraded. But whether it's enough to spoof AESA transmitters or not remains to be seen. I guess IAF will know soon enough.

This much I understand. The problem is that an AESA radar keeps switching frequencies, so it will see the Rafale more often than not right? Or am I misunderstanding how an AESA radar works? The way I understand it, the active cancellation will be most effective against Doppler Radars and PESA radars.

 

[Gessler]

This much I understand. The problem is that an AESA radar keeps switching frequencies, so it will see the Rafale more often than not right? Or am I misunderstanding how an AESA radar works? The way I understand it, the active cancellation will be most effective against Doppler Radars and PESA radars.

That's right - however, the range of frequencies it can operate within is limited. If the processing power on the Rafale is high enough, it can keep up.

Especially if there is a threat library of the enemy radar in question.

 

[Steven Rogers]

No unless they wanted to escalate the situation into war. They only wanted a propaganda revenge..

Who launch 12 bombs missing targets only by few 100mts just for the propaganda when anything near 2km of radius against a military is a direct attack.


PAF was rather around the loc and launched the bomb,they did crossed the loc and entered few KM's where migs came by surprise when they were busy targeting indian sukhois.


Exactly killing is a killing, and it's more glorious when enemy losses their best against your oldest.

Not unusual as they called two pilots from two different regions and from two different battalion,one from the mujahid battalion and other from Northern light infantry .

 

[Picard]

Can someone here explain how SPECTRA's active cancellation would work against an AESA radar? I know how active cancellation works in things like headphones, but I'm having a hard time seeing how SPECTRA would be able to react fast enough to effectively cancel out waves that travel at the speed of light. Can it effectively cancel out AESA radar waves?

What @Gessler said. Even AESA radar IIRC has to transmit several pulses at same frequency in order to build up picture, filter out false returns etc. So while AC will be much less effective, if it can analyze and implement properties before AESA switches frequencies, it can somewhat degrade radar performance.

 

[Armand2REP]

Can someone here explain how SPECTRA's active cancellation would work against an AESA radar? I know how active cancellation works in things like headphones, but I'm having a hard time seeing how SPECTRA would be able to react fast enough to effectively cancel out waves that travel at the speed of light. Can it effectively cancel out AESA radar waves?

The frequency hopping is controlled by an algorithm, the threat data base would either have it in memory or can learn with its AI. Active cancellation works easily up to a phased array radar, the problem using the technique against an AESA radar is the number of elements that are at different frequencies and having enough of its own to phase them with the return. If the AESA is doing a general area scan it is not so difficult to cancel it out, if they have localized you with most of their elements, the Spectra does not have enough to counter.

 

[Bobybob]

So India will go for more rafales?

 

[gryphus-scarface]

So India will go for more rafales?

This is all unconfirmed speculation. We will get official confirmation only after elections. But if it is true it makes sense. Buying more Rafales simplifies logistics. Rafale is also arguably more suitable for India. F-16 would be too similar in role to the MWF. It also lacks any stealth for insurgencies like 26th. Plus there's no Uncle Sam looking after our equipment.

 

[Immanuel]

And actually, Rafale had touchscreen MFDs and Direct Voice Input (DVI) technology in its cockpit operational by the time F-35 was still doing first flight.

The F-18 SH Block 2 had touchscreens long before Rafale.

 

[Gessler]

The F-18 SH Block 2 had touchscreens long before Rafale.

SH Block-2 is product of mid-2000s.

Rafale touchscreens were operable in 90s.

 

[BON PLAN]

This is all unconfirmed speculation. We will get official confirmation only after elections. But if it is true it makes sense. Buying more Rafales simplifies logistics. Rafale is also arguably more suitable for India. F-16 would be too similar in role to the MWF. It also lacks any stealth for insurgencies like 26th. Plus there's no Uncle Sam looking after our equipment.

The lights are green for more Rafale :
- The indigenization of the bird (14 improvements !) is already paid. Adding more planes is free on that dedicated point.
- The 2 air bases accomodated for Rafale can easily received 36+ more planes without extra costs (a french air base is actually hosting more than 45 Rafale).
- There is already a plant in India able to produce some rafale parts : the joint venture between Reliance and Dassault is ready and some workers are trained to produce aircraft planes (Falcon noses for now). If needed there is some space available to add a new assembly line.
- The US products are out. Because of Trump, because of the "make in america" Donald rules, because of the poor F16 record on 27th february, because of your S400 purchase.
- The Eurofighter costs much than Rafale and is less polyvalent. It is only better (if ever) on air dominance. But you still have the SU30 in this role.
- The Gripen E is in frontal opposition to the Tejas : no interest.
- India has a very good feed back about Dassault planes.
- Rafale is the IAF choice.
- France was always there for India when needed. Remember Kargil.
- India will never make twice the Mirage 2000 error : to few planes in squad.

So at least another 36 is quite sure. And probably many much more.

 

[Arsalan123]

This fighter jet is a big problem for pakistan but we are working to counter meteor.we know this is the best missile just because of ramjet technology.also rafale is a very dangerous fighter jet.

 

[Kchontha]

Scalp will come along with rafale.

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk

 

[Armand2REP]

Scalp will come along with rafale.

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk

The missiles ordered and payed for Rafale are Mica IR/RF, Meteor and Scalp. The targetting pods and smart bombs have not been selected.

http://www.aircosmosinternational.com/pod-weapons-for-indian-rafales-still-not-finalised-120711

 

[IndianHawk]

Important question is what is the price of rafale in 2020. Adjusted to military inflation.
Last contract for 36 was signed in 2016. It's been 3 years already. Even if next order is placed in 2020 rafale will be much costlier then 2016.
Infrastructure cost will be down for next 36 birds as there is already infra for 2 additional squadron. But more then that and infra cost will add again , same for weapons.
So what will be the cost of 114 rafale .
200 mil per unit or more.

Sent from my C103 using Tapatalk

 

[Armand2REP]

Important question is what is the price of rafale in 2020. Adjusted to military inflation.
Last contract for 36 was signed in 2016. It's been 3 years already. Even if next order is placed in 2020 rafale will be much costlier then 2016.
Infrastructure cost will be down for next 36 birds as there is already infra for 2 additional squadron. But more then that and infra cost will add again , same for weapons.
So what will be the cost of 114 rafale .
200 mil per unit or more.

Sent from my C103 using Tapatalk

The Dassault production line is humming along at 26 units per year. That means long lead items are cheaper as more units are being ordered. When the production line is set up at Reliance the cost of labour will drop compared to what French workers are paid. Ambani has left the running of the JV to Dassault to set up and run. They know best how to get the efficiency and quality they need out of making it in India. There will be no headaches like HAL would have given us with their ridiculous 3X man hours to do the same job.

 

[AmoghaVarsha]

Wonder how a Rafale hold up againist the Block 3 Super Hornet.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[Armand2REP]

Wonder how a Rafale hold up againist the Block 3 Super Hornet.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

As the US Navy begins ordering its F-35C, there is not much future for the Super Hornet.

 

[Gessler]

As the US Navy begins ordering its F-35C, there is not much future for the Super Hornet.

USN just ordered 78 new Block-3 SH.

https://navaltoday.com/2019/03/21/us-navy-orders-additional-78-super-hornets-under-4b-contract/

Wonder how a Rafale hold up againist the Block 3 Super Hornet.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Rafale is a better option in most if not all criteria.

 

[IndianHawk]

USN just ordered 78 new Block-3 SH.

https://navaltoday.com/2019/03/21/us-navy-orders-additional-78-super-hornets-under-4b-contract/



Rafale is a better option in most if not all criteria.

Naval rafale m will be more costly than even airforce rafale.

Sent from my C103 using Tapatalk