Know Your 'Rafale'

[Tumba]

F35 is not a mature jet.
F35 hidden costs are huge.
F35 disponibility is low.
F35 is dependant of the US good will (as all the US weapons. Ask UAE and Egyp....).
F35 sole asset, it's stealth, will vanish in a more or long futur (for exemple all new chinese frigates are equipped of low band radars...).
the versatility of F35 will be so small. Once the stealth asset vanished, it will remain a slow moving bird, limiteg in speed (not authorised to be faster than mach 1.4, and for just onbe minute), 7G max. A turkey in the sky.

just wondering did u or r u working with Dasault? And if u r French why shit brit Flag?

 

[BON PLAN]

Any software heavy machine with that level of integration doing all possible things, it will become obsolete very fast. F-35 is a program that went very wrong. F-22 is a wonderful machine.

Indeed.
Where F22 is a jewel, F35 is far from.

 

[omaebakabaka]

Speed, stealth, weapon load and they will be used along with F-15's....only true 5th gen for over 15 years now....top knotch AESA radar

 

[BON PLAN]

Speed, stealth, weapon load and they will be used along with F-15's....only true 5th gen for over 15 years now....top knotch AESA radar

just a little bit small range in an ideal world.

 

[omaebakabaka]

just a little bit small range in an ideal world.

It is effective against 99% of world air forces except for Russia where it may face some challenges but USAF and RAF are not stupid to fight directly.

 

[no smoking]

F35 is not a mature jet.

And it is maturing.

F35 hidden costs are huge.

But it gets a huge customer group to bear that cost.

F35 disponibility is low.

F-35 is a fighter designed for a sky war concept which is different from traditional ones. It is not a surprise to see it gets all these trouble.

F35 is dependant of the US good will (as all the US weapons. Ask UAE and Egyp....).

You can say the same thing of French weapons. Ask Israel, Taiwan....
Actually, you can say the same thing of any exported weapon manufactured by P5.

F35 sole asset, it's stealth, will vanish in a more or long futur (for exemple all new chinese frigates are equipped of low band radars...).

the versatility of F35 will be so small. Once the stealth asset vanished, it will remain a slow moving bird, limiteg in speed (not authorised to be faster than mach 1.4, and for just onbe minute), 7G max. A turkey in the sky.

Just as every country is developing her anti-stealth capability, the new stealth technologies are also under the development. There is no reason to believe that the stealth asset will vanish any day soon.

 

[Drsomnath999]

Licence to make, licence to kill

No fighter plane has come in with a bigger bang than the Rafale. TV anchors and

www.theweek.in

 

[BON PLAN]

You can say the same thing of French weapons. Ask Israel, Taiwan....

What is the problem with Taiwan? French gvt decided not to sale new affensive wepons. But since the M2000 are supported without restriction.
About Israel nearly the same : we decided not to sale new weapons, but supported the previous one.

 

[Immanuel]

??? I don"t think so.
Only a world top air force against 2nd rank one..... like US against irak.

Complete ignorant non sense, a vast majority of F-16 Air to air kills come from the Israeli who have over 44 kills confirmed on the F-16 including many Syrian Mig-23s, Mig-21s.

Modern F-16V and Block 60s & 70s upgraded with AESA outclass the Mirage 2000 regardless of what you say. The Mirage has attained it's end of upgrade possibility. The F-16 remains able to deploy among the widest set of weapons on the planet and it's cost are well known and it's not as expensive. The Mirage is a good dogfighter but F-16 is pretty good all around. It comes down to tactics and skill. Over-all the F-16 is a better fighter.

 

[Immanuel]

Sensor fusion : LM marketing. No proof
VLO is an advantage for F35 (but for how many time? Even an Israeli AF general said that it is a time limited asset). Spectra has it's own asset : SPECTRA.
F35 was propoted in Indai. IAF don't want it ! (maybe because India don't need the famous US umbrella...)

The current EW suite on the F-35 outclasses the SPECTRA. AESA is better, DAS is miles better. Sensor fusion happens in the cockpit and pretty much everything is shown on the helmet. Pilots have already spoken very highly of it's sensor fusion. So you can suck on your fake news. Atleast the US has an umbrella. France doesn't even have a rain coat.

 

[BON PLAN]

Complete ignorant non sense, a vast majority of F-16 Air to air kills come from the Israeli who have over 44 kills confirmed on the F-16 including many Syrian Mig-23s, Mig-21s.

Modern F-16V and Block 60s & 70s upgraded with AESA outclass the Mirage 2000 regardless of what you say. The Mirage has attained it's end of upgrade possibility. The F-16 remains able to deploy among the widest set of weapons on the planet and it's cost are well known and it's not as expensive. The Mirage is a good dogfighter but F-16 is pretty good all around. It comes down to tactics and skill. Over-all the F-16 is a better fighter.

before answering my dear foe friend, read all.....

Know Your 'Rafale'

So basically French bowed down to the pressure of China. Thanks for confirming that too finally. Today it's Taiwan tomorrow it will be someone else. They did with Russian's too on Mistral heli carriers. With that said, I have respect for US and Russia as they act out of their interests and...

defenceforumindia.com

"Except bk 60, the M2000-5 radar is better"

You are off topic... Another time.

 

[BON PLAN]

The current EW suite on the F-35 outclasses the SPECTRA. AESA is better, DAS is miles better. Sensor fusion happens in the cockpit and pretty much everything is shown on the helmet. Pilots have already spoken very highly of it's sensor fusion. So you can suck on your fake news. Atleast the US has an umbrella. France doesn't even have a rain coat.

ALL IS BETTER ON F35, BUT IT DOESN'T WORK ALL TOGETHER. A PROOF? THIS BIRD 14 YEARS AFTER PRE SERIAL FLIGHT IS NOT FOC. A FOC NOW EXPECTED IN 2024.

 

[Tumba]

ALL IS BETTER ON F35, BUT IT DOESN'T WORK ALL TOGETHER. A PROOF? THIS BIRD 14 YEARS AFTER PRE SERIAL FLIGHT IS NOT FOC. A FOC NOW EXPECTED IN 2024.

yaa still didnt get FOC and Israeli F-35 are doing recce in Lebnan and Iran haha...

 

[Immanuel]

ALL IS BETTER ON F35, BUT IT DOESN'T WORK ALL TOGETHER. A PROOF? THIS BIRD 14 YEARS AFTER PRE SERIAL FLIGHT IS NOT FOC. A FOC NOW EXPECTED IN 2024.

Your fake news crap doesn't matter, I'll rely on some one who has actually flown the F-35 in perhaps one of the best air forces in the world with one of the best Air to Air record. Big and bold so you can read it. I can post article after article but for now this is good enough.

Bot Verification

IAF Commander Maj. Gen. Amir Eshel (who has already flown the Adir fighter) said that the F-35 is much more than a platform and that it possesses capabilities that the fourth-generation fighters, the F-15I and F-16I do not possess.

"Let me begin with a story about a friend and colleague, a USAF general and fighter pilot who had flown many aircraft types and is an expert on airborne weapon systems. After 50 hours flying the F-35, I asked for his impressions. Here is what he had to say: 'This is unbelievable, much better than anything any pilot could have wished for himself. I felt like a sniper wearing a Ghillie suit, effectively concealed and camouflaged and seeing three enemy snipers fully exposed on the ground. I can see them but they cannot see me. That's how it is with the F-35. Its pilot is invisible. That is the stealth characteristic and it is improving with the aircraft coming off the production line. This aircraft makes the decisions as to when and where to launch (munitions). It is an evolutionary and revolutionary aircraft. It is revolutionary owing to the fact that it collects intelligence and it can be improved and upgraded all the time, on the move'. This was the statement of opinion of my general friend.

"With regard to the intelligence gathering aspect: the key word with the F-35 is sensor fusion. This aircraft arrives at the target area undetected, and using its built-in cameras (six in each aircraft), sensors and electronics, it can penetrate even areas heavily defended by air-defense systems. The aircraft collects information, photographs and records the input, and using datalink channels it transmits the information and data to other users in the air, to neighboring aircraft or to ground elements – command centers, decision makers – or to naval vessels at sea. Anyone sharing the communication networks (Network Centric Warfare) can receive the information collected by the F-35 aircraft, and it does everything on its own, with minimum involvement on the pilot's part. Admittedly, the pilot of a fourth-generation fighter receives a lot of information from sensors and other on-board sources, but he still has to monitor several display screens and attempt to translate the information and understand it in order to make decisions. With the F-35, the pilot is exempt from all of that, the systems do the intelligence gathering and dissemination work for him and he can focus on flying, on his environment and on his targets."

 

[BON PLAN]

yaa still didnt get FOC and Israeli F-35 are doing recce in Lebnan and Iran haha...

some proof?

no......

 

[BON PLAN]

Your fake news crap doesn't matter, I'll rely on some one who has actually flown the F-35 in perhaps one of the best air forces in the world with one of the best Air to Air record. Big and bold so you can read it. I can post article after article but for now this is good enough.

Bot Verification

IAF Commander Maj. Gen. Amir Eshel (who has already flown the Adir fighter) said that the F-35 is much more than a platform and that it possesses capabilities that the fourth-generation fighters, the F-15I and F-16I do not possess.

"Let me begin with a story about a friend and colleague, a USAF general and fighter pilot who had flown many aircraft types and is an expert on airborne weapon systems. After 50 hours flying the F-35, I asked for his impressions. Here is what he had to say: 'This is unbelievable, much better than anything any pilot could have wished for himself. I felt like a sniper wearing a Ghillie suit, effectively concealed and camouflaged and seeing three enemy snipers fully exposed on the ground. I can see them but they cannot see me. That's how it is with the F-35. Its pilot is invisible. That is the stealth characteristic and it is improving with the aircraft coming off the production line. This aircraft makes the decisions as to when and where to launch (munitions). It is an evolutionary and revolutionary aircraft. It is revolutionary owing to the fact that it collects intelligence and it can be improved and upgraded all the time, on the move'. This was the statement of opinion of my general friend.

"With regard to the intelligence gathering aspect: the key word with the F-35 is sensor fusion. This aircraft arrives at the target area undetected, and using its built-in cameras (six in each aircraft), sensors and electronics, it can penetrate even areas heavily defended by air-defense systems. The aircraft collects information, photographs and records the input, and using datalink channels it transmits the information and data to other users in the air, to neighboring aircraft or to ground elements – command centers, decision makers – or to naval vessels at sea. Anyone sharing the communication networks (Network Centric Warfare) can receive the information collected by the F-35 aircraft, and it does everything on its own, with minimum involvement on the pilot's part. Admittedly, the pilot of a fourth-generation fighter receives a lot of information from sensors and other on-board sources, but he still has to monitor several display screens and attempt to translate the information and understand it in order to make decisions. With the F-35, the pilot is exempt from all of that, the systems do the intelligence gathering and dissemination work for him and he can focus on flying, on his environment and on his targets."

Replace F35 by Gripen E, for exemple, and you will hase same kind of news.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

These Acquisitions And Upgrades Could Give Greece’s Air Force A Formidable Edge Over Turkey

Greek plans and proposals to acquire new warplanes and upgrade its existing fleet could see the Hellenic Air Force attain a very formidable qualitative edge over its Turkish rival by the end of the 2020s.

www.forbes.com

These Acquisitions And Upgrades Could Give Greece’s Air Force A Formidable Edge Over Turkey

Amid these tensions, Athens is in negotiations with its ally France over future arms deals that might include the procurement of formidable French 4.5-generation Dassault Rafale jets. Greek possession of such jets could pose a significant challenge to Turkish jets over the Aegean and Mediterranean.

 

[LDev]

ALL IS BETTER ON F35, BUT IT DOESN'T WORK ALL TOGETHER. A PROOF? THIS BIRD 14 YEARS AFTER PRE SERIAL FLIGHT IS NOT FOC. A FOC NOW EXPECTED IN 2024.

I would not bet against the technical resources of the LM, BAE systems etc. and most of all the USAF who have hundreds of billions of dollars not to mention the national security of many countries at stake. The F-35 will see improvement over the years and it's shortfalls are being addressed on a continuing basis e.g. it has a shorter range than most 4.5 gen aircraft because they carry external drop tanks and the F-35 will typically not carry them, even though it can, to preserve it's LO status. To overcome this range shortfall, adaptive cycle engines are being developed both by GE and P&W, the XA-100 and XA-101, both of which will enhance range by 30%-35% besides being more powerful. This engine will ensure that the F-35s range on internal fuel alone will match the Rafale with at least one drop tank. The limitation of weapons carriage in the internal bay is being addressed by missile racks which can carry upto 6 AMRAAM class missiles not to mention that newer missiles half the size of existing AMRAAMs are under development. I think the proof you are looking for will come when the F-35 is seen in operation.

 

[omaebakabaka]

I would not bet against the technical resources of the LM, BAE systems etc. and most of all the USAF who have hundreds of billions of dollars not to mention the national security of many countries at stake. The F-35 will see improvement over the years and it's shortfalls are being addressed on a continuing basis e.g. it has a shorter range than most 4.5 gen aircraft because they carry external drop tanks and the F-35 will typically not carry them, even though it can, to preserve it's LO status. To overcome this range shortfall, adaptive cycle engines are being developed both by GE and P&W, the XA-100 and XA-101, both of which will enhance range by 30%-35% besides being more powerful. This engine will ensure that the F-35s range on internal fuel alone will match the Rafale with at least one drop tank. The limitation of weapons carriage in the internal bay is being addressed by missile racks which can carry upto 6 AMRAAM class missiles not to mention that newer missiles half the size of existing AMRAAMs are under development. I think the proof you are looking for will come when the F-35 is seen in operation.

Engine improvement is a possibility but this aircraft is not a success story. Scope of improvements is only in the armaments area where USAF investments into BVR combined with stealth will make it a potent stand off aircraft. It will become cheaper possibly as more units are built. It was conceptualized in a different era where US thought it would be the only super power and wont have tech competition. Would have worked if it did not run into so many issues. Now its the strategies that will supersede this plane rather than the plan and its tech defining strategies. I still prefer F-22 over this but bastards stopped producing it.

 

[Rohan Naik]

Indeed.
Where F22 is a jewel, F35 is far from.

F35 is the J20 of west