Know Your 'Rafale'

Godless-Kafir

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TATA - background in running an airline is not the same as background in designing and building aeroplanes.
Mahindra - did not know they had a background in aviation. Any citations?
No Tata is into aviation, anyone who knows Ratans background knows he worked in USA as a aircraft maintenance man and he is fond of aircraft's. TATA is building parts of the Tejas wing and Mahindra bought an Australian aircraft company and they are in partnership with HAL in building an 5seater aircraft, designed in Australia.

I saw Mahindra, TATA even a textile mill from my town which where trying to get into aero component manufacturing. I saw a lot of private companies offering CNC facilitates etc.,at aero India but i never saw Reliance.
 

H.A.

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No Tata is into aviation, anyone who knows Ratans background knows he worked in USA as a aircraft maintenance man and he is fond of aircraft's. TATA is building parts of the Tejas wing and Mahindra bought an Australian aircraft company and they are in partnership with HAL in building an 5seater aircraft, designed in Australia.

I saw Mahindra, TATA even a textile mill from my town which where trying to get into aero component manufacturing. I saw a lot of private companies offering CNC facilitates etc.,at aero India but i never saw Reliance.
Don't forget about SIRKOSKY and TATA JV
 

pmaitra

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No Tata is into aviation, anyone who knows Ratans background knows he worked in USA as a aircraft maintenance man and he is fond of aircraft's. TATA is building parts of the Tejas wing and Mahindra bought an Australian aircraft company and they are in partnership with HAL in building an 5seater aircraft, designed in Australia.

I saw Mahindra, TATA even a textile mill from my town which where trying to get into aero component manufacturing. I saw a lot of private companies offering CNC facilitates etc.,at aero India but i never saw Reliance.
Yes, I heard about aero-components which they started recently.

For these companies to build aeroplanes, they need to tie up with those already in the business. It is a good start, especially by Mahindra. The knowledge gap between TATA or Mahindra on one side and, say, Embraer or Antonov on the other, is so big that they do not have much of a head start on Reliance.

I wish them all success nonetheless.
 

sayareakd

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TATA, Mahindra and Reliance are all same when it comes to make fighter, just that Reliance had slow start, but he is loaded with cash and can get things done in India at fast pace, yeah he is corruptor, but we need him to deliver the jet fast, but keeping in mind international quality.
 

pmaitra

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TATA, Mahindra and Reliance are all same when it comes to make fighter, just that Reliance had slow start, but he is loaded with cash and can get things done in India at fast pace, yeah he is corruptor, but we need him to deliver the jet fast, but keeping in mind international quality.
I think we should go easy on corruption when it is beneficial in the larger picture.

Look at Germany for example: While it is illegal for one German Company to bribe another German Company, a German Company bribing a foreign company to secure sales is called 'Commission' and is tax deductible.

Much has been talked about 'British Aid to India' recently, and I need not say more.
 

sayareakd

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I think we should go easy on corruption when it is beneficial in the larger picture.

Look at Germany for example: While it is illegal for one German Company to bribe another German Company, a German Company bribing a foreign company to secure sales is called 'Commission' and is tax deductible.

Much has been talked about 'British Aid to India' recently, and I need not say more.
I have no problem with him if he can get things done in time, infact i want him to take over OFB, that way it will be very efficient and IA will sing in different tune with him as owner.
 

Param

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I think we should go easy on corruption when it is beneficial in the larger picture.

Look at Germany for example: While it is illegal for one German Company to bribe another German Company, a German Company bribing a foreign company to secure sales is called 'Commission' and is tax deductible.

Much has been talked about 'British Aid to India' recently, and I need not say more.
Don't you think even corruption needs to be fair?

How can the same people make all the money? this is a democracy, there should be equal opportunities.:D
 

sayareakd

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Don't you think even corruption needs to be fair?

How can the same people make all the money? this is a democracy, there should be equal opportunities.:D
Defence business is cut throat competition. Look what happen to other 4 fighter planes and later on to EF.
 

KS

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I am of the same opinion but problem is usa will never have equal equal relationship. You know this to be true.
Sometimes situations force them to, if that is not to their liking. Like how India wanted to go ahead with IPI and in order to make the Indians pull out nuke deal was delivered.
 

KS

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Regarding Reliance, I think its Motabhai's group that has been selected. He is relatively less of a thug compared to his chota bhai.

Also then what will be the roles of HAL in this if Reliance is going to be Dassault's partner here ?

One thing I worry is these Reliance thugs will not hesitate selling the technology to anyone if they get suitable cash. Both Dassault and GoI must be watching them with hawk eyes.
 

methos

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Details of the technical evaluation in CH were published in the Basler Zeitung (which btw has a good reputation) and as of today there is no real reason to doubt it. There is no doubt that some people would have made reference to it, if the conclusion had been a different one. No Swiss official has denied the results released by the Basler Zeitung. It is true that there is an investigation, but the goal is to find out who gave such confidential information to the newspaper.
Nobody revoked what they wrote, but this does not mean that their article is correct. Even with the Swiss evaluation notes (and if they are totally correct) we lack the exact context. In the end we don't know anything about the results, except that the Gripen was selcted as being the most cost effective solution. What the Basler Zeitung has published is just an article not going into the more important deepth of the topic and a few graphical charts.
From my POV the graphical chart, which demonstrates the "superiority" of the Rafale in this case should be explained the most - but it wasn't. What exactly is important for the offensive capabilites? Types of weapons, weapon payload, speed, range, radar, protection systems and maneuverability? Did the evalutation also include the already integrated weapons systems? Did they include coming up radars i.e. the point when AESA is ready for integration? Did they use the basic Gripen and not the NG? Which EF and Rafale versions were used?
Also note that both EF and Rafale got a pretty large lobby in Switzerland.

Quote from the report: «Der Rafale ist das einzige Flugzeug, welches die Anforderungen der Luftwaffe in allen Einsatzarten erfüllt hat." The Rafale is the only aircraft, that has fulfilled the requirements of the Airforce in all types of missions
All types of missions = Air-to-air + air-to-ground... this does not say that any of the other aircraft is inferior in both of these fields of usage at the same time. The Basler Zeitung is there more "radical" in coming up with an supposed direct comparision in which Rafale is claimed to be the best.
 

nitesh

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So here we go, we have different cheerleaders for different groups already singing their praises. And regarding Reliance entry in to this arena, it is not sudden, they were in talks for setting up manufacturing plant for the fiber Reliance looks to NAL to make carbon fibre - Home - livemint.com

With LCA and Rafale too needing carbon composites in huge volumes, they were taking their steps in right directions. Now NAL technologies will see the mass manufacturing and start generating the revenues.
 

Zebra

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No Tata is into aviation, anyone who knows Ratans background knows he worked in USA as a aircraft maintenance man and he is fond of aircraft's. TATA is building parts of the Tejas wing and Mahindra bought an Australian aircraft company and they are in partnership with HAL in building an 5seater aircraft, designed in Australia.

I saw Mahindra, TATA even a textile mill from my town which where trying to get into aero component manufacturing. I saw a lot of private companies offering CNC facilitates etc.,at aero India but i never saw Reliance.
GK , there are two Australian companies which Mahindra bought. Not one .

Aerostaff Australia - www.aerostaff.com.au

GippsAero
 

Zebra

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isn`t tata has tie-up with an american firm i donot recall the name . i thibk its with LM so i think reliance was default choice for dasault.LM even flewed Ratan tata on f-16 durning one of airshows
There are few of US companies working with Tata in India.

Lockheed Martin, Sikorsky , Boeing.
 

anoop_mig25

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why relaince tie-up with dasault is bad . i mean some posted in some thread that Richard Branson said that "find a wise men to run your business ". i am sure big admanis would be able to fine some wise to run his arms firm .
 

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