Know Your 'Rafale'

[Flying Dagger]

We have integrated Astra and bramhos on bars without Russian help. If we are going into war we won't care about Russian objection to integrate derby ER. Meteor is not available anyway

1. Nothing happened without say of russia .

2. In emergency situation they will themselves help out or allow. They are offering their new missiles for the same purpose. Nor Derby ER is so much important for Sukhoi

3. Please read I said Meteor was available to us with European radar for Tejas but we rejected the offer and went with Elta.

Later we asked them to integrate and MBDA said they might think if the radar is Indian.

 

[scatterStorm]

As I thought, IAF will use terrain to fly as low as possible, possible the lowest flight in IAF history. Hemraj, Samyukta systems will provide cover, 2 Rafaels for EW to cover the Jags, Mirage and MKIs at full radar silence.

Might also be the case that we never fire up our radars, to give returns. That why IAF is practicing at AP.

 

[ashdoc]

1. Yes but the order will decrease significantly even if Rafale is selected for 114 jets. If they had concluded it early on they might have had 200 around Rafales here.

Right now Additional Mig 29 UPG / Sukhoi are eating it's pie

2. Agree No one will guarantee without being involved in the process but it was more than that. There were issues related to what they bid and what they asked later.

Additional mig 29 and sukhoi totaling around 30 aircraft are coming for 5000 crore while 36 rafales cost 59000 crore . So the Additional aircraft are not really eating into the pie .

 

[Assassin 2.0]

 

[WolfPack86]

First batch of six Rafale jets likely to arrive in India by July 27; to be based in Ambala
India is likely to receive by July 27 the first batch of six Rafale fighter jets which are expected to significantly boost the combat capability of the Indian Air Force, people familiar with the development said.

The IAF has been on a high alert for the last two weeks in view of escalation in tension with China following clashes between troops of the two countries in Galwan Valley in eastern Ladakh in which 20 Indian Army personnel were killed. The two armies are locked in a bitter standoff in the region for seven weeks.

On June 2, Defence Minister Rajnath Singh held a telephonic conversation with his French counterpart Florence Parly during which she conveyed that the Rafale jets will be delivered to India as scheduled notwithstanding the coronavirus pandemic in France.


Military officials, on the condition of anonymity, said the arrival of the Rafale jets will significantly enhance the IAF's overall combat capability and will send a clear message to India's "adversaries".

When asked about the matter, the IAF did not comment.

The first squadron of the aircraft will be stationed at Ambala air force station, considered one of the most strategically located bases of the IAF.

India had signed an inter-governmental agreement with France in September 2016 for procurement of 36 Rafale fighter jets at a cost of around Rs 58,000 crore.

The aircraft is capable of carrying a range of potent weapons. European missile maker MBDA's Meteor beyond visual range air-to-air missile and Scalp cruise missile will be the mainstay of the weapons package of the Rafale jets

Meteor is the next generation of BVR air-to-air missile (BVRAAM) designed to revolutionise air-to-air combat. The weapon has been developed by MBDA to combat common threats facing the UK, Germany, Italy, France, Spain and Sweden

Besides the missile systems, the Rafale jets will come with various India-specific modifications, including Israeli helmet-mounted displays, radar warning receivers, low-band jammers, 10-hour flight data recording, infra-red search and tracking systems among others

The IAF has already completed preparations, including readying required infrastructure and training of pilots, to welcome the fighter aircraft.

The second squadron of Rafale will be stationed at Hasimara base in West Bengal. The IAF spent around Rs 400 crore to develop infrastructure like shelters, hangars and maintenance facilities at the two bases

Out of the 36 Rafale jets, 30 will be fighter jets and six will be trainers. The trainer jets will be twin-seater and they will have almost all the features of the fighter jets.

The Congress had raised questions on the deal, including on rates of the aircraft, and alleged corruption, but the government had rejected the charges.

First batch of six Rafale jets likely to arrive in India by July 27; to be based in Ambala

India is likely to receive by July 27 the first batch of six Rafale fighter jets which are expected to significantly boost the combat capability of the Indian Air Force, people familiar with the development said. The IAF has been on a high alert for the last two weeks in view of escalation in...

www.defencenews.in

 

[BON PLAN]

France has started diverting some of the Meteor missiles meant for it's own air force (ADA) towards India. Thank you

.

Some 100 already delivered to France forces, and probably more.
So 10 to 20 may easily be diverted to India.

 

[BON PLAN]

1. Yes but the order will decrease significantly even if Rafale is selected for 114 jets. If they had concluded it early on they might have had 200 around Rafales here.

Main reason : lack of Indian funds.

 

[Anathema]

Some 100 already delivered to France forces, and probably more.
So 10 to 20 may easily be diverted to India.

I thought the French dont believe in Meteor ! They were planning to put their weight behind Mica NG.

 

[IndianHawk]

If russia don't agree, it's quite impossible. You need to link any BVR AAM and the weapon system. If the weapon system is not open it's over.

Mission computer of mki including weapons system is all indian.

 

[IndianHawk]

1. Nothing happened without say of russia .

2. In emergency situation they will themselves help out or allow. They are offering their new missiles for the same purpose. Nor Derby ER is so much important for Sukhoi

3. Please read I said Meteor was available to us with European radar for Tejas but we rejected the offer and went with Elta.

Later we asked them to integrate and MBDA said they might think if the radar is Indian.

Lmao France didn't even agree to integrate meteor with mirage upgrade which cost as much as an lca mk1a and had a full French radar. You think they will give it up for lca??

 

[IndianHawk]

And No we aren't or can't integrate without Russia knowing it.

What can I say you are utterly uniformed on the matter. You don't even know what is Indian in mki .

 

[IndianHawk]

Are you sure?. Validating Astra mk2 will take time. It has not yet been fired in the surface to air mode to validate the propulsion system. They tested Astra mk1 first from ground launchers. I feel Astra mk2 may take a couple of years to fructify. Of course wish them all success. We urgently need the mk2 to outrange the Aim120c with Pakistan and match latest Chinese BVR missiles.

A question. We know that Chinese BVR missiles are based on Russian equivalents. Many of Chinese missiles use the r77 data links. But are the new Chinese BVR and Wvr missiles better than their Russian parents. Have the Chinese made Russian missiles better by modifications.

Glad to hear that we have 130 - 140 km range Russian Bvr missiles. In a dogfight will the Russian missiles outperform Chinese missiles. Hope so. Astra mk1 is an very important addition to our arsenal. Its ours and we can produce any number and modify it if necessary. Our Asraam is supposed to be the best Wvr missile in the world. Electronic Warfare is a force multiplier. Is India better than China in EW?.

I want to see the so called reputation of Chinese weapons bite the dust. During the Balakot air strikes we could easily jam Chinese radars.

Test will be very fast for Astra mk2 as both dual pulse motor and seeker are ready and tested already.

Astra mk1 itself outranges aim120c5 which Pakistan has now. So no worries there.

Chinese missiles are not better than Russian in any way. Maybe in near future not now.

In dogfight new rvv MD will outperform anything Chinese can put out.

Asraam is the best wve right now no doubt.

We are far ahead of china in ew as our jets carry french and Italian systems along with indo Russian. Chinese are a generation behind there.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

If russia don't agree, it's quite impossible. You need to link any BVR AAM and the weapon system. If the weapon system is not open it's over.

How Israeli jammers are working on Su-30 or how spice is integrated on Su-30?
And russkies were asking millions of $ to equip bhramos on su-30 but HAL upgraded the structure of su-30 on it's own and also integrated bhramos.
The Su-30MKI fleet is equipped with Mission Computer cum Display Processor-MC-486 and DP-30MK developed by India's very own Defence Avionics Research Establishment (DARE) in 1998

If india goes out of the way and integrate I-derby it will make Russian pissed off but that can be handled afterwards.

 

[Suhaan]

 

[Babloo Singh]

Well the news about Six Rafales coming seems untrue...... we are going to have more unless some have already arrived.

India ordered 36 which is 28 single seaters (BS 001 to BS 028) & 8 twin seater (RB 001 to RB 008)
BS 001 & RB 001 will be delivered last as they will be reference samples.

Now here is Image of RB 008 flying........ so all 8 RB's (twin seaters) are ready, and can be delivered.

Credit & Source : &

Also from Maverick's tweet..... you have BS 005 flying, so leaving reference aircraft BS001 out.... 4 are ready.

So 8 + 4 can came today..... I guess we will receive Six single seaters may be 8 next month if France give a couple from it's quota. I am sure that 8 twin seaters will also arrive or may be they are already here.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Lmao France didn't even agree to integrate meteor with mirage upgrade which cost as much as an lca mk1a and had a full French radar. You think they will give it up for lca??

I am not saying what I think.. I am telling what they discussed with IAF.

You can have your hypothesis but a statement is a statement whether they back out in future is a different thing.

Tejas with 300+ jets eventually and other Indian jets like AMCA ORCA etc is billions of dollar deal for Meteor if it gets in. They aren't going to lose it. Infact UK is quite willing to do it.

For Mirage , it might have reduced the Rafale order perhaps or not make much economic sense as they said.

Mirage doesn't have a Radar to do full justice to Meteor either these were the concern raised.

But with Tejas it may get it if we need and have an indian radar. They infact offered to buy an European radar but we chose the Elta. That is the reason Tejas didn't got it. But at the time IAF didn't intervene and HAL goes with L1 bidder.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Additional mig 29 and sukhoi totaling around 30 aircraft are coming for 5000 crore while 36 rafales cost 59000 crore . So the Additional aircraft are not really eating into the pie .

1. How did you arrived at 5000 crore figure ?

21+12 = 33

How much a single Su will cost multiply it with 12

And 21 * cost of one mig 29 Let me know the rest

2. These are stop gap measure to keep the required Sqd strength that essentially means there will be less burden to take additional Rafales later.

If we had Rafale production here India would not have opted for them. So yes they are eating the pie.

 

[Tridev123]

Test will be very fast for Astra mk2 as both dual pulse motor and seeker are ready and tested already.

Astra mk1 itself outranges aim120c5 which Pakistan has now. So no worries there.

Chinese missiles are not better than Russian in any way. Maybe in near future not now.

In dogfight new rvv MD will outperform anything Chinese can put out.

Asraam is the best wve right now no doubt.

We are far ahead of china in ew as our jets carry french and Italian systems along with indo Russian. Chinese are a generation behind there.

Waiting in anticipation for our Astra mk1 to score first kills against Chinese aircraft. Will be a great boost to indigenous capability. With the exception of the J20(unknown capability) all PLAAF fighters will be game for the Astra.

 

[Bhadra]

Lots of red banner people appearing in the forum today ..
Our Yusuf, Fat cat Singh et etc....
What is cooking ??

 

[ashdoc]

1. How did you arrived at 5000 crore figure ?

21+12 = 33

How much a single Su will cost multiply it with 12

And 21 * cost of one mig 29 Let me know the rest

2. These are stop gap measure to keep the required Sqd strength that essentially means there will be less burden to take additional Rafales later.

If we had Rafale production here India would not have opted for them. So yes they are eating the pie.

India to buy 12 Sukhoi, 21 MiG-29s amid India-China standoff

The acquisition proposal for the purchase of 33 new aircraft for the Indian Air Force has been valued at an estimated Rs 5,000 crore.

www.google.com

The 5000 crore figure is here .