Know Your 'Rafale'

[Flying Dagger]

Brazil gripen E/ng deal .

Brazil finalises $4.68bn Gripen NG deal

Brazil has finalised a $4.68 billion deal for 36 Saab Gripen NG fighters after concluding more than 20 months of negotiations over pricing and industrial cooperation against the backdrop of a deepening economic and political crisis.

www.flightglobal.com

4.68 B for 36 jets=== 130 million. Now add inflation.

GaN based ew suit is not a big deal really it's being added to our su30mki already and will definitely be in mwf.

Tejas /mwf Maybe more costly by 2027 but gripen / rafale would be even more costlier. Inflation works for both.

If Tejas gets meteor it will have long list of clients world over. No other jet can provide such a lethal capability that cheap and reliably. That's why it won't get meteor anytime soon.

Mbda never promised to integrate meteor to lca no matter what radar is chosen.

Rafale numbers will go down if mwf gets meteor or sfdr comes faster.

1. 4.68 bn dollar includes not just jets that is not how price of jet is calculated.

For e.g. a Rafale cost 91 mn Euro to India but if you divide the cost of the deal by 36 it will be over 200 mn

Gripen probably cost around 70-75 mn .

And why would I add inflation to the cost of Gripen NG now on its current cost.

Tejas mk2 isn't in production yet nor have a prototype. It's cost is an estimate right now.

2. Now PLEASE READ abt GaNS vs GaS based AESA radar then make silly statement.

Sukhoi doesn't have an AESA radar, the whole point of Sukhoi upgrade is to get it along with Improved ew and engine.



3. Soon USA will retire it's F-16s creating a market of second hand capable aircraft and nation looking for cheap jet will flock them or buy migs and su35 like jet . Gripen itself if highly cost efficient.

4. You have been repeating same line like crazy.. get a break

IAF and HAL refused the European radar and meteor in the first place.

Israeli radar means Tejas aircraft won't have world-class Meteor missile

The IAF had made the Meteor an essential pre-condition for ordering the fighter in large numbers

wap.business-standard.com

Why Tejas Mk1A doesn’t need Meteor BVRAAM – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

But later they had a change of heart and went to MBDA who reiterated their stand weapon system will be integrated with only European radar.

MBDA doesn’t budge to allow integration of Meteor Air-to-Air missile on Tejas Mk1A

Numerous Attempts by Indian air force (IAF) and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) to convince European developer and manufacturer of Meteor missiles to allow the missile system to be integrated i…

www.google.com

Later when IAF discussed again with a potential for billions of dollar arms deal they said they'll consider if the radar is Indian.

 

[IndianHawk]

1. 4.68 bn dollar includes not just jets that is not how price of jet is calculated.

For e.g. a Rafale cost 91 mn Euro to India but if you divide the cost of the deal by 36 it will be over 200 mn

Gripen probably cost around 70-75 mn .

And why would I add inflation to the cost of Gripen NG now on its current cost.

Tejas mk2 isn't in production yet nor have a prototype. It's cost is an estimate right now.

2. Now PLEASE READ abt GaNS vs GaS based AESA radar then make silly statement.

Sukhoi doesn't have an AESA radar, the whole point of Sukhoi upgrade is to get it along with Improved ew and engine.



3. Soon USA will retire it's F-16s creating a market of second hand capable aircraft and nation looking for cheap jet will flock them or buy migs and su35 like jet . Gripen itself if highly cost efficient.

4. You have been repeating same line like crazy.. get a break

IAF and HAL refused the European radar and meteor in the first place.

Israeli radar means Tejas aircraft won't have world-class Meteor missile

The IAF had made the Meteor an essential pre-condition for ordering the fighter in large numbers

wap.business-standard.com

Why Tejas Mk1A doesn’t need Meteor BVRAAM – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

But later they had a change of heart and went to MBDA who reiterated their stand weapon system will be integrated with only European radar.

MBDA doesn’t budge to allow integration of Meteor Air-to-Air missile on Tejas Mk1A

Numerous Attempts by Indian air force (IAF) and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) to convince European developer and manufacturer of Meteor missiles to allow the missile system to be integrated i…

www.google.com

Later when IAF discussed again with a potential for billions of dollar arms deal they said they'll consider if the radar is Indian.

No point dude . You live in your own world. Let's end this here.

 

[Flying Dagger]

No point dude . You live in your own world. Let's end this here.

My World ?

You are the one coming up with stupid statement that Sukhoi have GaS based AESA .

and then 150 mn dollar for Gripen ... That's the world you have created for yourself.

West/Europe is afraid of Tejas as it will end sale of their weapons etc blah blah. If that was the case they wouldn't have offered their radar ew system etc.

I have shared the relevant articles to bust the world you created and yes their is no point in arguing as you have been repeating same lines with no fact or sense to back up.

 

[IndianHawk]

My World ?

You are the one coming up with stupid statement that Sukhoi have GaS based AESA .

and then 150 mn dollar for Gripen ... That's the world you have created for yourself.

West/Europe is afraid of Tejas as it will end sale of their weapons etc blah blah. If that was the case they wouldn't have offered their radar ew system etc.

I have shared the relevant articles to bust the world you created and yes their is no point in arguing as you have been repeating same lines with no fact or sense to back up.

Ok now you are on my ignore list.

 

[BON PLAN]

Switzerland demo flight. All the demo is interesting, specially hard turns.

 

[BON PLAN]

4.68 B for 36 jets=== 130 million. Now add inflation.

Add weapons, add support, add spares, add bases accomodation....
It's a dry price, without nothing more than 36 equipped frames.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Ok now you are on my ignore list.

Good to know

Between do share your wisdom with everyone

@Karthi @Bleh Can you please confirm if Su 30 mki have magically got GaNS based AESA radar as the above gentleman said as I am not aware since I am living in my own parallel world.

 

[Karthi]

Brazil gripen E/ng deal .

Brazil finalises $4.68bn Gripen NG deal

Brazil has finalised a $4.68 billion deal for 36 Saab Gripen NG fighters after concluding more than 20 months of negotiations over pricing and industrial cooperation against the backdrop of a deepening economic and political crisis.

www.flightglobal.com

4.68 B for 36 jets=== 130 million. Now add inflation.

GaN based ew suit is not a big deal really it's being added to our su30mki already and will definitely be in mwf.

Tejas /mwf Maybe more costly by 2027 but gripen / rafale would be even more costlier. Inflation works for both.

If Tejas gets meteor it will have long list of clients world over. No other jet can provide such a lethal capability that cheap and reliably. That's why it won't get meteor anytime soon.

Mbda never promised to integrate meteor to lca no matter what radar is chosen.

Rafale numbers will go down if mwf gets meteor or sfdr comes faster.

Gallium Nitride based EW on MKI are you sure about that??

 

[BON PLAN]

Sukhoi have GaS based AESA .

First time I read that.

 

[Flying Dagger]

First time I read that.

Actually he said GaNS based , I slightly misquoted couldn't believe perhaps what he said.

 

[IndianHawk]

Add weapons, add support, add spares, add bases accomodation....
It's a dry price, without nothing more than 36 equipped frames.

I know that . Tell that to person who was asking about it.

 

[IndianHawk]

Gallium Nitride based EW on MKI are you sure about that??

Yup it's coming.

 

[IndianHawk]

First time I read that.

I didn't say gaN based aesa but gaN based ew suite .
BTW uttam aesa prototype is gaS based but production item will be gaN based. So even if uttam aesa goes to su30 upgrade it will have gaN based aesa too.

People underestimate su30 a lot but there is a reason why 5 aim120 couldn't touch it.
It's ew gets updates pretty regularly. It is very near to get full digital rwr and will get dual color maws soon.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

 

[IndianHawk]

It can be bought without selling kidneys and don't need no french to maintain and upgrade it.

 

[no smoking]

S-400 would be typically deployed on front end to scan whole enemy sky... if they are kept 400-600 km away from border.. whats the use of it ... U Need it to see incoming hostile jets not your own jets...

There are plenty of radars can see the hostile jets from 1000kms away. And there are plenty of other mid-range defense systems can be deployed closer to the border, which are much cheaper and more mobility.

and for a missile about to hit you at Mach 2.5 to 2.8 , 3-5 minutes is a long time...remember we have SU integrated with it already so it will be delivered as near to S 400's as possible...

With 3 Mach speed, within 5 minutes, the missiles only fly 202 km. Your Su-30s have to come as close as 337km before release the missiles. In other words, Su-30 will have to enter the enemy's front air defense system first before doing anything.

 

[Sridhar_TN]

Wh

You're right but ....
But you need to have a very precise information of the location of the differents pieces of the S400 battery. It's not so easy. Specially with a missile without air to ground seeker.

Of course.
And it can be precisely obtained. Extremely precise. As the US and India have been doing to monitor PLA movements in the ground, hi res satellite pictures should be more than enough.

 

[Kumata]

There are plenty of radars can see the hostile jets from 1000kms away. And there are plenty of other mid-range defense systems can be deployed closer to the border, which are much cheaper and more mobility.



With 3 Mach speed, within 5 minutes, the missiles only fly 202 km. Your Su-30s have to come as close as 337km before release the missiles. In other words, Su-30 will have to enter the enemy's front air defense system first before doing anything.

you forget that S400 is not just a Radar but a whole Missile offence and defence system as well. Factor in the range of missiles and u have your answer.

Second part, even if i factor in your suggestion still they can be easily targeted. Such heavy system do not travel even 1 km in 3-5 minutes. moreover if terrain is not suitable, they are sitting ducks for like of brahmos.

 

[BON PLAN]

People underestimate su30 a lot but there is a reason why 5 aim120 couldn't touch it.

SU30 is a powerfull bird. No doubt.

the five AIM120 were fired from too long, far away the NEZ. It was only a counter measure, not something made with a kill in mind.

 

[Steven Rogers]

SU30 is a powerfull bird. No doubt.

the five AIM120 were fired from too long, far away the NEZ. It was only a counter measure, not something made with a kill in mind.

They all were fired from 30-35miles ....