Know Your 'Rafale'

[BON PLAN]

Another grandchild of Nehru. The only thing wrong with American fighters is that they're "American." Please backread my posts I'm getting tired at this....

Except F35, all recent US fighters are good (SH18) to very good (F15). No one is marvellous.
F16 was really a nice plane. But its days are behind now. Not enough composite, air intake not stealthy at all, single engine which is a limit, small wings....

BUT, the customer are never totally free to use it as they want. Ask UAE and Egypt for exemple.

 

[BON PLAN]

That's a small price to pay for gaining access to the best and most cutting edge weapons, support and trsining in the World. ITAR also means that it's less likely that China will gain access to sensitive American weapons tech. Whereas, war profiteers don't really care about Indian national security. All they care about is selling weapons to Indians and everybody else welling to buy. They're so desperste for profit that they would even bribe Indian officials.

for a customer without products to export in this range, it's not a problem. It's our case : ITAR is a real problem. A US attempt to rules all the west weapon market.
That is why MICA NG for exemple is from the beginning ITAR FREE.

 

[abhay rajput]

Hahaha! You're clutching straws. It means that an F-35 will see first Rafale from high altitude and will be able to fire first.

Nap-of-earth tactics will work only against smaller air forces.

Not really PAF 2 AWACS didn't pick up mig21 until last moment.. of you believe f35 radar will be better than awacs then yohr

Another grandchild of Nehru. The only thing wrong with American fighters is that they're "American." Please backread my posts I'm getting tired at this....

Nah man I just live in reality rather than fantasy.. Nehru I don't even like him . But Americans are not trustable at all.. they are much like Pakistanis.. saying one thing and doing another.. USA had a very bad track record in the past 3-4 decades . In democracy bureaucracy have a lot of say .. and I can tell you neither military nor bureaucracy trust Americans that's why we haven't bought anything substantial like fighter jets. And after 27 Feb and s400, noAmerican plane is coming at all and that's the truth..

 

[Armand2REP]

That's a small price to pay for gaining access to the best and most cutting edge weapons.

You consider F-16s the best and most cutting edge? You only get access to the best stuff if you become their bitch. Even then you only get second best as no one can get F-22, not even the UK and they are the biggest bitch of all.

Best support and trsining in the World.

France definitely provides better support and training, it isn't even a contest.

ITAR also means that it's less likely that China will gain access to sensitive American weapons tech. Whereas, war profiteers don't really care about Indian national security. All they care about is selling weapons to Indians and everybody else welling to buy. They're so desperste for profit that they would even bribe Indian officials.

The US never cared about India's national security, just listen to the Nixon tapes. Even with a mutual enemy in China they are still selling to Pakistan. Ever since the murder of DCNS workers, France won't touch Pakistan with a 20ft pole. France provides ITAR free systems that give sovereignty to the nation that chooses it. Being an ITAR bitch is just that...

 

[Armand2REP]

NEZ, against all kind of agile fighter... It's already at least 2 to 3 much more than AMRAAM like missile.
May be the 60km is given with a confortable margin. I don't know.

300Km ? in ballistic mode maybe. 100+ km (ie 150 ?) with engine ON.

The max range is 300km, the NEZ is dependent on the escape speed of the target. If the NEZ of the target was only 60km, the target would be escaping at Mach 2.2+. It is possible for fighters to go that fast, but it takes them several minutes of afterburner to get there.

 

[vampyrbladez]

You consider F-16s the best and most cutting edge? You only get access to the best stuff if you become their bitch. Even then you only get second best as no one can get F-22, not even the UK and they are the biggest bitch of all.



France definitely provides better support and training, it isn't even a contest.



The US never cared about India's national security, just listen to the Nixon tapes. Even with a mutual enemy in China they are still selling to Pakistan. Ever since the murder of DCNS workers, France won't touch Pakistan with a 20ft pole. France provides ITAR free systems that give sovereignty to the nation that chooses it. Being an ITAR bitch is just that...

No Escape Zone

With an operational range of over 100 km, a BVRAAM Meteor missile can travel at a speed of over Mach 4, which is over four times the speed of sound. The missile can accelerate mid-way, leaving very little chances of the target to escape. In fact, it has a no-escape zone of over 60 km which is known to be the largest among air-to-air missiles.

https://saab.com/gripen/news/blog/g...ost-advanced-air-to-air-missile-in-the-world/

The air combat capability however is to increase substantially with the service entry of European MBDA Meteor active-radar homing BVRAAM with 80+ nautical miles range to provide an ultra-long range interception capability against fighter sized targets critical in attaining “first look-first shoot-first kill” capability alongside fulfilling the BVR role for “outer-air battles”, obligatory for IAF in response to proliferation of BVRAAMs in its neighbourhood including United States AIM-120C-5 variant of AMRAAM in Pakistani Air Force (PAF) service.

http://www.vayuaerospace.in/article.html?n=rafale’s-mbda-spears-for-aerial-dominance&d=224

The Indian Air Force’s (IAF) plans to arm the Mirage 2000 fleet with potent long-range Meteor missiles has hit rough weather due to high integration cost and lower capability of the fighter jet. The Beyond Visual Range (BVR) missile Meteor — part of the Rafale weapons package — has a range of about 150 km and a no-escape zone of 100 km.

https://theprint.in/defence/iafs-mi...makers-cite-high-integration-cost/292600/?amp

 

[asianobserve]

You consider F-16s the best and most cutting edge? You only get access to the best stuff if you become their bitch. Even then you only get second best as no one can get F-22, not even the UK and they are the biggest bitch of all.



France definitely provides better support and training, it isn't even a contest.



The US never cared about India's national security, just listen to the Nixon tapes. Even with a mutual enemy in China they are still selling to Pakistan. Ever since the murder of DCNS workers, France won't touch Pakistan with a 20ft pole. France provides ITAR free systems that give sovereignty to the nation that chooses it. Being an ITAR bitch is just that...

America is keeping Pakistan at arms length: far enough so that it won't do much harm but close enough so as not to give China a free reign in Pakistan. That's cool-headed calculus.

If Indians can have that level of cslculus then they would buy the whole F-16 product line and deprove Pakistan of further F-16 upgrades. The other benefit of buyong F-16 including the factory is that India will become the center of Worldwide sustainment earning both money and influence from all F-16 users.

But they would rather buy low volume, low financed, strategically insignificant overpriced old gen aircraft.

 

[south block]

America is keeping Pakistan at arms length: far enough so that it won't do much harm but close enough so as not to give China a free reign in Pakistan. That's cool-headed calculus.

If Indians can have that level of cslculus then they would buy the whole F-16 product line and deprove Pakistan of further F-16 upgrades. The other benefit of buyong F-16 including the factory is that India will become the center of Worldwide sustainment earning both money and influence from all F-16 users.

But they would rather buy low volume, low financed, strategically insignificant overpriced old gen aircraft.

F 21 is not winning...if USA is willing to sell F 35 with no restrictions than US will win.

 

[Armand2REP]

@vampyrbladez

The Indian Air Force’s new Rafale jets that begin arriving in September next year will come armed with the longest range weapon of its kind, the MBDA Meteor, which sports a range in excess of 300 km in some firing configurations.

https://www.livefistdefence.com/201...tra-air-to-air-missile-nears-finish-line.html

 

[abhay rajput]

America is keeping Pakistan at arms length: far enough so that it won't do much harm but close enough so as not to give China a free reign in Pakistan. That's cool-headed calculus.

If Indians can have that level of cslculus then they would buy the whole F-16 product line and deprove Pakistan of further F-16 upgrades. The other benefit of buyong F-16 including the factory is that India will become the center of Worldwide sustainment earning both money and influence from all F-16 users.

But they would rather buy low volume, low financed, strategically insignificant overpriced old gen aircraft.

America is keeping Pakistan at arms length: far enough so that it won't do much harm but close enough so as not to give China a free reign in Pakistan. That's cool-headed calculus.

If Indians can have that level of cslculus then they would buy the whole F-16 product line and deprove Pakistan of further F-16 upgrades. The other benefit of buyong F-16 including the factory is that India will become the center of Worldwide sustainment earning both money and influence from all F-16 users.

But they would rather buy low volume, low financed, strategically insignificant overpriced old gen aircraft.

Sir f16 can not win any IAF competition for many reasons.. we have Tejas for single engine and it can't compete with new aircrafts like Gripen, Rafale, typhoon .. , USA sell f16 to be use against India and you are saying we should also buy same aircraft .. tons of bullshit here .. I mean again same hypocrisy of Americans.. USA had hacked elections and change regimes of many countries but when it comes to your own country then Russia is evil blah blah blah.. truth is just a matter of perspective .. the way I see it you want to sell same weapons to both countries to be use against each other... It's our decision whether we buy Audi or Honda..
Us is again conducting hearing on Kashmir . I mean how many times USA had conducted hearing on Pakistan .. we both knew the situation of human rights in Pakistan and India..

 

[asianobserve]

France's Dassault Rafale Fighter Won't Ever Be an F-35 (Or Stealth

Despite incorporating stealth technology, the Rafale (“Burst of Fire” or “Gust of Wind”), is not a true stealth aircraft like the F-35. True, the French jet’s wings and fuselage are primarily composed of radar-absorbent composite materials and lightweight titanium. Other stealthy design features include S-shaped engine inlets, serrated edges and a channel exhaust cooling scheme designed to reduce infrared signature.

These give the Rafale an estimated Radar Cross Section (RCS) of slightly above one square meters—comparable to peers like the Super Hornet and Typhoon, but orders of magnitude greater than that of the F-35 jet. Land-based Rafales are currently priced $76–$82 million per plane, only modestly cheaper than the F-35A which benefits from vastly greater economy of scale, though the Rafale’s operating costs are likely lower.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/b...le-fighter-wont-ever-be-f-35-or-stealth-96001

 

[vampyrbladez]

France's Dassault Rafale Fighter Won't Ever Be an F-35 (Or Stealth

Despite incorporating stealth technology, the Rafale (“Burst of Fire” or “Gust of Wind”), is not a true stealth aircraft like the F-35. True, the French jet’s wings and fuselage are primarily composed of radar-absorbent composite materials and lightweight titanium. Other stealthy design features include S-shaped engine inlets, serrated edges and a channel exhaust cooling scheme designed to reduce infrared signature.

These give the Rafale an estimated Radar Cross Section (RCS) of slightly above one square meters—comparable to peers like the Super Hornet and Typhoon, but orders of magnitude greater than that of the F-35 jet. Land-based Rafales are currently priced $76–$82 million per plane, only modestly cheaper than the F-35A which benefits from vastly greater economy of scale, though the Rafale’s operating costs are likely lower.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/b...le-fighter-wont-ever-be-f-35-or-stealth-96001

Bunch of bullcrap. National Interest is a rag which copies information from War Is Boring which used to be a good defence news site till The War Zone, The Drive came online. David Axe has nothing on Tyler Rogoway.

 

[Shiv sagar]

If there was an offer of f35 to us, then the " national interest" may had a point but there is no such offer. So there is no point in discussing f35 vs Rafale. We just got the best from a basket which were available to us.

 

[vampyrbladez]

If there was an offer of f35 to us, then the " national interest" may had a point but there is no such offer. So there is no point in discussing f35 vs Rafale. We just got the best from a basket which were available to us.

I have mentioned before that both the Rafale and the F 35 have their own merits. Fighting over each other's shortcomings like football hooligans will do no good to the decorum of this forum and it's intellectual, technical and strategic polity.

 

[Bhurki]

I have mentioned before that both the Rafale and the F 35 have their own merits. Fighting over each other's shortcomings like football hooligans will do no good to the decorum of this forum and it's intellectual, technical and strategic polity.

They might have their own merits.
But a fight between 4 F35 and 4 rafale is always decisively won by the former..

 

[Armand2REP]

But a fight between 4 F35 and 4 rafale is always decisively won by the former..

Only at high altitude, Rafale destroys it at low altitude where its LO comes into play.

 

[A chauhan]

Rafale Verdict LIVE: No Ground to Order FIR, Says SC, Dismisses Pleas Seeking Probe Into Defence Deal

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ne...-gandhi-france-dassault-aviation-2386049.html

Jhatka and fatka to pappu...

 

[asianobserve]

Only at high altitude, Rafale destroys it at low altitude where its LO comes into play.

Rafale pilots will not know they are targetted by F-35s if it comes to that until the missile hits it no matter the altitude. Besides, only idiots will fight in A2A combat from low altitude.

 

[Armand2REP]

Rafale pilots will not know they are targetted by F-35s if it comes to that until the missile hits it no matter the altitude. Besides, only idiots will fight in A2A combat from low altitude.

Rafale is protected by Spectra, it will know the second a lock is made or a missile is fired. It can also classify targets based on emissions. Only idiots would try to take a Rafale at low altitude. Just ask Typhoon pilots that get wrecked everytime they face it, not to mention F-22s.

 

[asianobserve]

Spectra or no Spectra only idiots will fight an A2A battle from low altitude.

Second, Spectra will not know its host has already been targeted if it faces an F-35. The F-35 can either target it via agile beam frequency hopping AESA or EOTS or DAS. F-35 can also guide AMRAAM to its target using agile beam that is angled away from the taget.