Know Your 'Rafale'

[asianobserve]

It might not be FOC but there are already 450 f35 in existence compared to 200 rafale.
By 2024, there will be 1200 F35 in service compared to about 300 rafale.
You're right in the argument of apple and pear comparison since rafale will give much less options in an A2AD environment to the pilot and probably be useless in high threat areas.
Once F35a/c get the sidekick upgrade to 6 amraam internal loadout, its pretty much game over for everybody else..

Not to mention the possibility that USAF might order Raytheon's trimode seeker Perigrine missile that will double the load of fighters especially the F-35.

 

[BON PLAN]

It might not be FOC but there are already 450 f35 in existence compared to 200 rafale.

what is better : 450 non operationnal weapons, or 200 fully effective ? Nice question, isn't it?

Quantity versus quality....

 

[BON PLAN]

Not to mention the possibility that USAF might order Raytheon's trimode seeker Perigrine missile that will double the load of fighters especially the F-35.

Unlikely since an AARAAM follow on missile is on study. no?

 

[Bhurki]

what is better : 450 non operationnal weapons, or 200 fully effective ? Nice question, isn't it?

Quantity versus quality....

Nice question..
But whats the use if its fully effective against just lightly defended targets.
An area defended with sam systems like s300 will lock down majority of areas that rafale can operate in. It'll be locked to a low altitude, burning more fuel and decreasing range and on station time..
The f35 on the other hand will fly high and will have mininum restrictions in such defended areas which will give greater flexibility to the pilot.
Also i wouldn't call F35 non op since it has already made combat sorties in ME and patrol sorties in the arctic.

 

[Bhurki]

Unlikely since an AARAAM follow on missile is on study. no?

That might be far out..
Meanwhile 'sidekick' can be adopted quite quickly..
If a volume can hold an 18 inch 2000 lb bomb, it can certainly hold 2 amraam.

 

[asianobserve]

Nice question..
But whats the use if its fully effective against just lightly defended targets.
An area defended with sam systems like s300 will lock down majority of areas that rafale can operate in. It'll be locked to a low altitude, burning more fuel and decreasing range and on station time..
The f35 on the other hand will fly high and will have mininum restrictions in such defended areas which will give greater flexibility to the pilot.
Also i wouldn't call F35 non op since it has already made combat sorties in ME and patrol sorties in the arctic.

He only know blue cheese. Well Israeli F-35s dubbed as Adirs are known to have operated in Syria against Syrian and Iranian targets. A rumor even came out of Adirs flying over Iran.

Then USAF F-35s did this in Iraq (with F-15s):


A smart version of WW2 carpet bombing...

 

[Bhurki]

https://www.businessinsider.in/defe...n-in-its-latest-test/articleshow/57044734.cms
The F-35 just absolutely slaughtered the competition in its latest test (Red flag kill ratio 15:1)

https://amp.businessinsider.com/psychological-effect-f-35-stealth-legacy-fighter-2017-5
An F-35 pilot explains how the stealth fighter can have a crushing psychological effect on the enemy

 

[Wisemarko]

France Lays Out Rafale Upgrade Path to 2070
(Source: Jane's Defence Weekly; posted Nov. 13, 2019) By Gareth Jennings

LONDON --- France has laid out the upgrade path it intends to roll out for the Dassault Rafale to keep the multirole combat aircraft in air force and naval service through to about 2070, a senior service official said on 13 November.

Speaking at the IQPC International Fighter conference in Berlin, Major General Frederic Parisot, Deputy Chief of Staff, Plans and Programmes, French Air Force (Armée de l’Air: AdlA), said that there will likely be a further four upgrade phases for the platform beyond the latest F3R configuration currently being rolled out, and that it is the country’s plan for the Rafale to serve as the force-multiplier alongside the New Generation Fighter (NFG) currently being developed with Germany and Spain as part of the wider Future Combat Air System (FCAS)/ Système de Combat Aérien Futur (SCAF).

The Rafale’s current F3R configuration features major software and hardware upgrades that include the integration of the MBDA Meteor beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile (BVRAAM) and the latest laser-guided version of the Sagem Armement Air-Sol Modulaire (AASM) modular air-to-ground precision weapon; the Thales RBE2 active electronic scanned array (AESA) radar; the Thales TALIOS long-range airborne targeting pod; and automatic ground collision avoidance system (Auto-GCAS); an improved buddy-buddy refuelling pod; as well as the Spectra electronic warfare system.

The F4 standard plans to operate between 2023 and 2030, and it adds enhancements to the Thales RBE2 active electronic scanned array (AESA) radar, the TALIOS pod, and the Reco NG reconnaissance pod; upgrades to the aircraft’s communications suite; improved pilot helmet-mounted displays; a new engine control unit; and the ability to carry new weaponry such as the Mica Next-Generation (NG) air-to-air missile and 1,000 kg AASM. (end of excerpt)

 

[learn from failures]

SH are for fighting 2nd rate Air Forces. The F-35Cs will be the tip of the USN spear when war breaks out.

In front of USA all nations forces (barring France, UK) are third rate including your China.... SH is more than enough to handle....

 

[learn from failures]

America rather kicked Turkey out of F-35 program.

And Turkey only bought S-400 because the Russians agreed to Turkish TOT demand while America does not agree to a similar TOT for its Patriot.

USA kicked Turkey out because even after threatening them to throw out of F35 program they went ahead with S400... they were ready to offer them pac 3 and thaad...

 

[learn from failures]

Why are we bringing F35 in rafale thread?? Niether China nor Pakistan flies F35 and not likely to do so in next decade..... who knows by then France may offer us neuron.....

 

[Bhurki]

Why are we bringing F35 in rafale thread?? Niether China nor Pakistan flies F35 and not likely to do so in next decade..... who knows by then France may offer us neuron.....

So you mean India should wait until its neighbours acquire the ability and then haphazardly scramble to counter it?
Did Israel wait for Iraq, syria, egypt, gaza to acquire stealth jets?
If India had F35, it could've toyed around with Pakistan and China's air force at will while they tried to counter it with their makeshift solutions..

 

[asianobserve]

USA kicked Turkey out because even after threatening them to throw out of F35 program they went ahead with S400... they were ready to offer them pac 3 and thaad...

Turkey has always wanted TOT. That's why American offers of Patriot and even THAAD sales without TOT would never be enough.

 

[south block]

Indian need to get those F 35 instead of these...US need to offer F 35 for MMRCA 2.0, other wise Dassault is winning.

 

[Deathstar]

Indian need to get those F 35 instead of these...US need to offer F 35 for MMRCA 2.0, other wise Dassault is winning.

US hasnt offered us F35 , we have already bought S400 so F35 is off. And why would US give us their state of the art F35 when we arent even fully aligned to them

 

[Flying Dagger]

Why are we bringing F35 in rafale thread?? Niether China nor Pakistan flies F35 and not likely to do so in next decade..... who knows by then France may offer us neuron.....

Neuron was a tech demo for UCAV . What do you even mean here ?

 

[south block]

US hasnt offered us F35 , we have already bought S400 so F35 is off. And why would US give us their state of the art F35 when we arent even fully aligned to them

F 21 isn't winning. US need to dangle f 35 carrot to IAF. They will sell you if you pay + other guarantee's. they are willing to sell you most advance F 16 they will sell f 35 to. It's nothing but a wait game on both sides & give or take. MOD want them to make a first move.

 

[vampyrbladez]

F 21 isn't winning. US need to dangle f 35 carrot to IAF. They will sell you if you pay + other guarantee's. they are willing to sell you most advance F 16 they will sell f 35 to. It's nothing but a wait game on both sides & give or take. MOD want them to make a first move.

F 16 is old crap. Either F 35A with ToT deal like Israel or nothing!

 

[south block]

F 16 is old crap. Either F 35A with ToT deal like Israel or nothing!

F 16V, BLK 70/72 is no crap buddy but India need to look for 5th generation options to counter Chinese threat.AMCA is more than a decade away....F 35 is a perfect candidate for MMRCA 2.0 & IN requirements, there are two many charlatan in this forum who give over hyped rafale a free pass. F 35 will smash it to oblivion in real combat.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

F 16V, BLK 70/72 is no crap buddy but India need to look for 5th generation options to counter Chinese threat.AMCA is more than a decade away....F 35 is a perfect candidate for MMRCA 2.0 & IN requirements, there are two many charlatan in this forum who give over hyped rafale a free pass. F 35 will smash it to oblivion in real combat.

F-35 india cannot afford it. Suppose india gets 200 F-35 to fill shoes of mk-2 amca mmrca etc. The development of indigenous equipment is now gone for next 50 years. What drdo and other organization will do? They will swing baba ji ka ghanta?. First most important thing for india today is not buying but generating capabilities.
IAF broke hearts of all indigenous haters by saying they back Only DRDO project.
Maintaining those white elephants will eat all of our budget.
IAF is not impressed by F-16 and it's total cost is 24 billion $ more expensive than rafale.
Rafale is best choice IAF liked it from the start now Supreme Court decision is also their now it will be ordered.

Chinese crap J-20 will take at least 10 years to become capable.