Know Your 'Rafale'

[hit&run]

My understanding is that this whole paid propaganda by Congress-I mafia is to stop India further the deal to strengthen the squadron strength. They are trying to make it hot potatoes and not let India has the strategic and military edge against China and Pakistan.

They are following the same script of UPA-1 and 2.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

My understanding is that this whole paid propaganda by Congress-I mafia is to stop India further the deal to strengthen the squadron strength. They are trying to make it hot potatoes and not let India has the strategic and military edge against China and Pakistan.

They are following the same script of UPA-1 and 2.

Indian strength will rely on Indigenous Tejas Mk2 or MCA, not on Rafale. Stop repeatig that rafale deal will be strategic. At lest, until the secret clause which has real juice is not known, we can't simply say anything

 

[hit&run]

Indian strength will rely on Indigenous Tejas Mk2 or MCA, not on Rafale. Stop repeatig that rafale deal will be strategic. At lest, until the secret clause which has real juice is not known, we can't simply say anything

I don't go by wishful thinking but what is in the hand.

 

[sorcerer]

To show that there is no corruption, Modi might as well go for Rafale if terms are good. Opposition can always be branded as traitors.

The question here is - Is rafale needed when Super Sukhoi upgrade is coming soon?

Russia , can no longer be a reliable partner in defence. Any more.
Russia blinked first on India, by selling technology to china, looooooong before USA - India shook hands. Russia had it compulsions and its very well understood by India, as a good friend.
china has money and Russia needs money, it's the Russian interest afterall.
So the maneuvering Russia took is completely understandable. So do the Russians on India-USA-EUROPE.

if china is using the copies of Russian tech, its better to have some GOOD things in portfolio against china. also, china is known to sell tech secrets and we can safely assume that, pakis will have the knowledge and capabilities of Russian hardware.

pak is never a primary priority when it comes to India's defence preparedness, its always and will be china.
pakistan can never grow to outpace India, ever, as the cast is set.
Its the china factor that will vector in the defence preparedness and acquisitions.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

I don't go by wishful thinking but what is in the hand.

What is wishful here? Everything is wishful by that means! Speaking nonsense that buying 100 planes will be strategic to fighter enemies numbering hundreds of millions is wishful and retarded thinking. Even if Mk2 and AMCA does not come, MK1 and Su30 is already here and that itself is better than imports

Russia , can no longer be a reliable partner in defence. Any more.
Russia blinked first on India, by selling technology to china, looooooong before USA - India shook hands. Russia had it compulsions and its very well understood by India, as a good friend.
china has money and Russia needs money, it's the Russian interest afterall.
So the maneuvering Russia took is completely understandable. So do the Russians on India-USA-EUROPE.

if china is using the copies of Russian tech, its better to have some GOOD things in portfolio against china. also, china is known to sell tech secrets and we can safely assume that, pakis will have the knowledge and capabilities of Russian hardware.

pak is never a primary priority when it comes to India's defence preparedness, its always and will be china.
pakistan can never grow to outpace India, ever, as the cast is set.
Its the china factor that will vector in the defence preparedness and acquisitions.

We are not cheap people who wants to contain China. Our aim in life is never to be jealous of anyone, We only want people with hostile intentions dead, not anyone who is more successful than us. You are acting like a jealous person who can't see China growing and wants to put them down just because they are big.

Indian enemy is jihadis and wiping them out is the goal. Deterrence is not a goal at all. I see no reason to be alarmed at a pagan China growing strong. The abrahamic cult followers are the threat and India will only focus on that.

China is not insane to give strategic technology to Jihadis like Pakistan who also proliferate to every other jihadis like those of Libya, iran etc. China also understands that Jihadis are an existential threat - look at how Uighurs are rebelling - against HAN and other pagan population.

Russia finds India and China similar in its culture and gives and takes support from both. That is not really a problem here

 

[sorcerer]

Indian strength will rely on Indigenous Tejas Mk2 or MCA, not on Rafale. Stop repeatig that rafale deal will be strategic. At lest, until the secret clause which has real juice is not known, we can't simply say anything

Ofcourse given another 2 decades to shape up HAL to bring it to the standards after the years of IMPOSED ROT by the previous Govt.
It must be this "REAL JUICE" that worries the pakis and china so much that they are all out to stall this deal.
I will be happy If India has 36 jets on a go as our indigenous techs mature enough and outwit others in tech.

ALSO.
an important thing.
with the OFFSET CLAUSE, that worries china. If India becomes a manufacturing hub of high-end technologies, its the chinese that will FAIL big time.
china, never ever wants an high technology industrial base in india ever.
If Indians, who are creatively awesome grows with technology, china will become the base only to manufacture plastic buckets, poisonous toys and tampons.
china's real worry, apart from the 36 Rafale, is the high end tech India will achieve which its industries will absorb.
china will never stand a chance against in India, in such a scenario within a decade or so, technology wise.

What china looted from other nations by MONEY, India is offsetting MONEY SMARTLY to bring that tech to India.

 

[Defenceanalyst91]

ALSO.
an important thing.
with the OFFSET CLAUSE, that worries china. If India becomes a manufacturing hub of high-end technologies, its the chinese that will FAIL big time.
china, never ever wants an high technology industrial base in india ever.
If Indians, who are creatively awesome grows with technology, china will become the base only to manufacture plastic buckets, poisonous toys and tampons.
china's real worry, apart from the 36 Rafale, is the high end tech India will achieve which its industries will absorb.
china will never stand a chance against in India, in such a scenario within a decade or so, technology wise.

What china looted from other nations by MONEY, India is offsetting MONEY SMARTLY to bring that tech to India.

Stop dreaming about this.Non of the western countries will give high tech ToT to India. How many billions India paid to Russians?Did they they transfer any substantial ToT to India? Same with western countries. France is not even ready to give screwdriving works to India for 126 rafales. So we r forceed to direct purchase only 36 rafales.

 

[Defenceanalyst91]

ALSO.
an important thing.
with the OFFSET CLAUSE, that worries china. If India becomes a manufacturing hub of high-end technologies, its the chinese that will FAIL big time.
china, never ever wants an high technology industrial base in india ever.
If Indians, who are creatively awesome grows with technology, china will become the base only to manufacture plastic buckets, poisonous toys and tampons.
china's real worry, apart from the 36 Rafale, is the high end tech India will achieve which its industries will absorb.
china will never stand a chance against in India, in such a scenario within a decade or so, technology wise.

What china looted from other nations by MONEY, India is offsetting MONEY SMARTLY to bring that tech to India.

Stop dreaming about this.Non of the western countries will give high tech ToT to India. How many billions India paid to Russians?Did they they transfer any substantial ToT to India? Same with western countries. France is not even ready to give screwdriving works to India for 126 rafales. So we r forceed to direct purchase only 36 rafales.

 

[sorcerer]

We are not cheap people who wants to contain China. Our aim in life is never to be jealous of anyone, We only want people with hostile intentions dead, not anyone who is more successful than us. You are acting like a jealous person who can't see China growing and wants to put them down just because they are big.

If the one who is more successful than you and is trying to KILL you whole sale, you will be jealously guard this nation ...very jealously , my friend.
china is big, and china has big problems to put them down.
Im not jealous.why should I be jealous of a chinese problem.Im just watching chinese succumb with ocorn:

Indian enemy is jihadis and wiping them out is the goal. Deterrence is not a goal at all. I see no reason to be alarmed at a pagan China growing strong. The abrahamic cult followers are the threat and India will only focus on that

All cults are a threat against India, as this is the only place all ismics seem to lose traction and not yet managed to get their hands around completely.

Deterrance, brings peace for growth. When you have grown strong, you dont need deterrence, as peace will be maintained by clout alone.
India is growing and when you are growing, deterrence is one thing that you can rely on.

China is not insane to give strategic technology to Jihadis like Pakistan who also proliferate to every other jihadis like those of Libya, iran etc. China also understands that Jihadis are an existential threat - look at how Uighurs are rebelling - against HAN and other pagan population.

china is SANE to do INSANE things against India through pak, be it even giving high end tech to counter INdia's growth STORY.
Never underestimate the enemy No Uno.

UIGHERS are rebelling, but you should also know that the rest of the muslim world is keeping their mouth shut on china killing UIGHERS.
is it the same in Kashmir?
C'mon we have all assholes crying on top of their voice if Indian army tries to protect itself from stone pelters ..in Kashmir and we have the muslim nations bellowing together on it


china is a threat and a very valid threat for India.

 

[sorcerer]

We are not cheap people who wants to contain China. Our aim in life is never to be jealous of anyone, We only want people with hostile intentions dead, not anyone who is more successful than us. You are acting like a jealous person who can't see China growing and wants to put them down just because they are big.

If the one who is more successful than you and is trying to KILL you whole sale, you will be jealously guard this nation ...very jealously , my friend.
china is big, and china has big problems to put them down.
Im not jealous.why should I be jealous of a chinese problem.Im just watching chinese succumb with

Indian enemy is jihadis and wiping them out is the goal. Deterrence is not a goal at all. I see no reason to be alarmed at a pagan China growing strong. The abrahamic cult followers are the threat and India will only focus on that

All cults are a threat against India, as this is the only place all ismics seem to lose traction and not yet managed to get their hands around completely.

Deterrance, brings peace for growth. When you have grown strong, you dont need deterrence, as peace will be maintained by clout alone.
India is growing and when you are growing, deterrence is one thing that you can rely on.

China is not insane to give strategic technology to Jihadis like Pakistan who also proliferate to every other jihadis like those of Libya, iran etc. China also understands that Jihadis are an existential threat - look at how Uighurs are rebelling - against HAN and other pagan population.

china is SANE to do INSANE things against India through pak, be it even giving high end tech to counter INdia's growth STORY.
Never underestimate the enemy No Uno.

UIGHERS are rebelling, but you should also know that the rest of the muslim world is keeping their mouth shut on china killing UIGHERS.
is it the same in Kashmir?
C'mon we have all assholes crying on top of their voice if Indian army tries to protect itself from stone pelters ..in Kashmir and we have the muslim nations bellowing together on it


china is a threat and a very valid threat for India.

 

[sorcerer]

Stop dreaming about this.Non of the western countries will give high tech ToT to India. How many billions India paid to Russians?Did they they transfer any substantial ToT to India? Same with western countries. France is not even ready to give screwdriving works to India for 126 rafales. So we r forceed to direct purchase only 36 rafales.

So then why the talk about RELIANCE and RAFAEL, Rafale and Godrej, Rafale and Mahindra.. if Rafale is only giving screw drivers?
Oh may be Rafale is giving more than screw drivers!!
Too early to dream about NOT giving tech transfer..aint it?
But it suits your narrative quite well and may be gets you a good night sleep.



The company, which had revenue in excess of $17 billion in 2016, is looking at India as a major hub for international orders, and has pledged to transfer key technology for radars, optronics and integration of systems to partners here, with a top executive saying that it would mean creation of thousands of jobs.


Read more at:
//economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/64969265.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

 

[Defenceanalyst91]

So then why the talk about RELIANCE and RAFAEL, Rafale and Godrej, Rafale and Mahindra.. if Rafale is only giving screw drivers?
Oh may be Rafale is giving more than screw drivers!!
Too early to dream about NOT giving tech transfer..aint it?
But it suits your narrative quite well and may be gets you a good night sleep.



The company, which had revenue in excess of $17 billion in 2016, is looking at India as a major hub for international orders, and has pledged to transfer key technology for radars, optronics and integration of systems to partners here, with a top executive saying that it would mean creation of thousands of jobs.


Read more at:
//economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/64969265.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

Anil ambani is a conman with more than 50000 crores NPA. His infrastructure, telecom,power sector bussiness r big failure. His defence bussiness wil be same.

 

[sorcerer]

Anil ambani is a conman with more than 50000 crores NPA. His infrastructure, telecom,power sector bussiness r big failure. His defence bussiness wil be same.

Good!!
NPA';s under Whose rule?
All these companies including his defence company is a LISTED company under the rules of previous regime.
None of these companies were started under the rule of the current administration ,
Reliance Naval (RNAVAL founded 2013)BTW, you wouldnt know that RELIANCE NAVAL is also called Reliance Defence
So going by your logic of NPA charge

We chose Reliance Defence, says Dassault after Francois Hollande’s bombshell on Rafale deal

"This offsets contract is delivered in compliance with the Defence Procurement Procedure (DPP) 2016 regulations. In this framework, and in accordance with the policy of Make in India, Dassault Aviation has decided to make a partnership with India's Reliance Group. This is Dassault Aviation's choice," the statement reads.

It clarified that although the Rafale deal was a contract between the Indian and the French governments, it provided for a separate contract in which Dassault Aviation committed to making compensation investments (offsets) in India equivalent to 50 per cent of the value of the purchase.

The French aviation company also said that contracts were signed with companies other than Reliance, as part of the offsets contract under the Rafale deal.

"Other partnerships have been signed with other companies such as BTSL, DEFSYS, Kinetic, Mahindra, Maini, SAMTEL. Other negotiations are ongoing with hundred-odd other potential partners," the firm said.

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/sto...rafale-deal-chose-reliance-1346209-2018-09-22


So, Reliance is Dassault's problem if they find Not competitive once the manufacturing starts.
Its a decision. which Dassault can roll back if they find the merits of reliance non compliant with policies.
The offset clause will kick in only after the jets are delivered and will take a few years.

But lets see, if its Rahul Feroze Khan who will be rolled instead for all the lies.

If RAHUL KHAN had created this political problem when Reliance is ACTUALLY chosen during the execution of offset clause. that would have been worth a shot.
But.
As usual its Rahul Fake Gandhi and his standards of premature ejaculation in politics.\

**********
Sorry for derailing this thread people..
Its so much fun to pwn these congress ass lickers
***********

 

[hit&run]

What is wishful here? Everything is wishful by that means! Speaking nonsense that buying 100 planes will be strategic to fighter enemies numbering hundreds of millions is wishful and retarded thinking. Even if Mk2 and AMCA does not come, MK1 and Su30 is already here and that itself is better than imports

I can see many unnecessary adjectives used in a post responding directly to me.

I am not going to derail this thread by answering your angry 'do this and do that' assertions but I will follow and do my bit for the cause of IAF's need to strengthen its required squadron numbers for MMRCA; which is Rafale in this case.

There are already many obstacles and paraparesis when it comes to procuring this class and category of jets.

Kindly disagree with me, as to me, buying 126 or more Rafale is the most logical way to keep the edge against both China and Pakistan.

To me, any reason even with good intentions pitched against this procurement is nothing but a treachery.

 

[hit&run]

Anil ambani is a conman with more than 50000 crores NPA. His infrastructure, telecom,power sector bussiness r big failure. His defence bussiness wil be same.

NPA doesn't automatically make a businessman a Conman.

 

[sorcerer]

Dassault’s deal with Anil Ambani dates back to 2012: Defence Ministry

New Delhi : In a bid to absolve PM Modi of securing the Rafale offset contract to Anil Ambani as alleged by former France President, the Defence Ministry on Saturday clarified that the aircraft’s manufacturer Dassault Aviation, had entered into a pact for partnership with Ambani”s Reliance Industries back in February 2012, “within two weeks of being declared the lowest bidder for 126 aircraft” by the previous government.


In an official press release, the Defence Ministry also reiterated that the government has no role in selection of the Indian offset partner, nor any official knowledge of the joint venture deal signed in February 2017 between Reliance Defence and Dassault Aviation as the guidelines require the vendor to provide details of the offset partners “either at the time of seeking offset credit or one year prior to discharge of offset obligation, which in this case will be due from 2020.”

http://www.freepressjournal.in/indi...i-dates-back-to-2012-defence-ministry/1361147

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

Ofcourse given another 2 decades to shape up HAL to bring it to the standards after the years of IMPOSED ROT by the previous Govt.
It must be this "REAL JUICE" that worries the pakis and china so much that they are all out to stall this deal.
I will be happy If India has 36 jets on a go as our indigenous techs mature enough and outwit others in tech.

ALSO.
an important thing.
with the OFFSET CLAUSE, that worries china. If India becomes a manufacturing hub of high-end technologies, its the chinese that will FAIL big time.
china, never ever wants an high technology industrial base in india ever.
If Indians, who are creatively awesome grows with technology, china will become the base only to manufacture plastic buckets, poisonous toys and tampons.
china's real worry, apart from the 36 Rafale, is the high end tech India will achieve which its industries will absorb.
china will never stand a chance against in India, in such a scenario within a decade or so, technology wise.

What china looted from other nations by MONEY, India is offsetting MONEY SMARTLY to bring that tech to India.

HAL is not retarded. It has shown its prowess in 1970s by making MiG21. India can make Tejas Mk2 by 2025. There is no need to pretend.

About China, India will never get any ToT from USA for high end capital goods. Also, India lacks huge natural resources to outpace China. No matter what, natural resource is important ad India lacks it.

Stop dreaming about this.Non of the western countries will give high tech ToT to India. How many billions India paid to Russians?Did they they transfer any substantial ToT to India? Same with western countries. France is not even ready to give screwdriving works to India for 126 rafales. So we r forceed to direct purchase only 36 rafales.

Russia gave India ToT for Brahmos, Su30, K100 missile and many other systems. West does not help India but Russia did. Russia is not same as West.

If the one who is more successful than you and is trying to KILL you whole sale, you will be jealously guard this nation ...very jealously , my friend.
china is big, and china has big problems to put them down.
Im not jealous.why should I be jealous of a chinese problem.Im just watching chinese succumb with ocorn:

Chinese have less of a problem than India. China intends to kill India wholesale? Has China behaved in that manner before? Show me evidence? Your whims don't make reality.

All cults are a threat against India, as this is the only place all ismics seem to lose traction and not yet managed to get their hands around completely.

Deterrance, brings peace for growth. When you have grown strong, you dont need deterrence, as peace will be maintained by clout alone.
India is growing and when you are growing, deterrence is one thing that you can rely on.

The economy of today is nothing but war machinery oriented. China has over $3 trillion forex which it does not know where to use. Also, China and India don't have hostile civilisation.

India must maintain deterrence but not jingoism and provoke China unwarrantedly.

china is SANE to do INSANE things against India through pak, be it even giving high end tech to counter INdia's growth STORY.
Never underestimate the enemy No Uno.

Enemy is USA and west, not China. USA even helped genocide of Kashmiri Pandits. China is not enemy except for evil people.

I don't say that deterrence must not be maintained but foolish claims must be avoided

I can see many unnecessary adjectives used in a post responding directly to me.

I am not going to derail this thread by answering your angry 'do this and do that' assertions but I will follow and do my bit for the cause of IAF's need to strengthen its required squadron numbers for MMRCA; which is Rafale in this case.

There are already many obstacles and paraparesis when it comes to procuring this class and category of jets.

Kindly disagree with me, as to me, buying 126 or more Rafale is the most logical way to keep the edge against both China and Pakistan.

To me, any reason even with good intentions pitched against this procurement is nothing but a treachery.

You started it by calling practical objectives as wishful thinking.

By the way, unless you know that there is ToT involved, claiming vehemently that Rafale deal will be better is not reasonable. If you know that ToT is not involved and yet you want Rafale, then you are a traitor who wants to sabotage Indian defence industry by destroying local manufacturing.

Rafale deal is good or bad according to the technology transfer involved. I do have faith on Modi and see that the secret clause may have something hidden which is beneficial. But, nevertheless, one must speak with caution and not give full support to things he does not understand

 

[sorcerer]

HAL is not retarded. It has shown its prowess in 1970s by making MiG21. India can make Tejas Mk2 by 2025. There is no need to pretend.

by 2025 its Tejas and HAL not building something like Rafale.

it will take time and HAL can do better. thats good.
Let HAL mature by partnering with others as its doing with Russia and all, also if It can manage the ORDERS on its hands without stalling the Tejas project, which it cant.

Its good for HAL and for India as a nation, where more than one company in India gets exposure on core technologies, where more than one company can employ engineers in high end tech.
ITs a nice game plan by bringing new companies into defense with HAL.

About China, India will never get any ToT from USA for high end capital goods. Also, India lacks huge natural resources to outpace China. No matter what, natural resource is important ad India lacks it.

china doesnt need ToT. they steal or buy from the source using corruption as they have done already.
The worry for china is India getting ToT and the knowledge and the resource associated with the knowledge that will help India outpace china.
India lacks natural resources which its getting by MOUs elsewhere with other nations. That story is running along its line at full steam.

Russia gave India ToT for Brahmos, Su30, K100 missile and many other systems. West does not help India but Russia did. Russia is not same as West.

Russia is not the same as the west. Sure!
My point is the same technology could be with china too. as china is orienting close to Russia, cus they are on a buying spree.
But..Russia maintains some integrity (I hope) the reason why India is still basing some advance tech projects with Russia for the future.

Chinese have less of a problem than India. China intends to kill India wholesale? Has China behaved in that manner before? Show me evidence? Your whims don't make reality.

The Maoists is one chinese sposored activity in India. so is the pak on the western border who is threatening india with nukes, the nukes provided by china in the first place.
Evidence is all over the net. Do the honor yourself if china lets you browse such information.

The economy of today is nothing but war machinery oriented. China has over $3 trillion forex which it does not know where to use. Also, China and India don't have hostile civilisation.

Sure china has 3 trillion whatever and china has a hostile administration which is not so good with their "PEACEFUL RISE" but which encroach upon disputed territories.

If you look at pakistan, we know how china is using the clout to Pressure their "civilization " on pakis' via the CPEC route and muslims in Uigher province

china knows where to use the money, and its colonizing nations in the name of "business interest"

If India is weak, it cant be any different , the treatment from china. I mean.

India is not coming to the chinese line and sure china "doesnt know how to use its 3 trillion" against India for "peaceful pruposes"

India must maintain deterrence but not jingoism and provoke China unwarrantedly.

India never provoked china and take every incident and its the other way around, be it Tibet or Doklam.

Enemy is USA and west, not China. USA even helped genocide of Kashmiri Pandits. China is not enemy except for evil people.

china has occupied part of Indian kashmir. pakistan sponosored terrorism with chinese help made the Genocide on Kashmir pandits
There is no permanent friends or enemies, just permanent interests.

Indias interest is national security. If nations who deal with India understand that and play along India will manage to keep the west at bay.

The choice is imposed on India or on any nations by the actions of china.

I don't say that deterrence must not be maintained but foolish claims must be avoided

There are claims. and its only the push or the shove from the enemy that will prove if the claim was foolish or not.

You started it by calling practical objectives as wishful thinking.

By the way, unless you know that there is ToT involved, claiming vehemently that Rafale deal will be better is not reasonable. If you know that ToT is not involved and yet you want Rafale, then you are a traitor who wants to sabotage Indian defence industry by destroying local manufacturing.

The TOT is involved because the statement from Dassault says such from day one. They have even put it categorically in which ever sections.
Nobody, then had any doubts on the ToT, as its already played and answered in Parliament session, once.

I am a patriot who wants India to spent money on buying hardware thats really making a worry for china and pakistan.
Dassault has signed deals with almost 72 companies and identified 200 sources for their program in India.
That means there is some manufacturing here. else such would not have been done.

Its the traitors who make false claims on ToT and Offset clauses without knowing facts who are killing and destroying the local manufacturing, by stalling such huge contracts with western nations,.
Its double standards that when india buys from Russia, then Indians are not traitors but if Indians buy from elsewhere they are traitors who are destroying local production.

Rafale deal is good or bad according to the technology transfer involved. I do have faith on Modi and see that the secret clause may have something hidden which is beneficial. But, nevertheless, one must speak with caution and not give full support to things he does not understand

You sure can practice the advice you are handing out.
Rafale is a good deal with ToT and its economical. If India can worry both china and pakistan with a jet deal, then sure India is doing the right thing ToT or Not!!

 

[indus]

Latest excuse of why Rafale deal is bad.
Without Rafale, HAL stares at idle capacity problem

Statesman News Service
18 hours ago

Post Rafale miss, the over 30,000 upset officials and staff at the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) are a worried lot. For, in the absence of any orders for new aircraft, HAL will be left with idle manufacturing capacity. That, too, in just three years from now, leaving scores of employees without much to do.

The PSU, which has been repeatedly getting an “excellent” rating from the defence ministry for its performance, was shocked to learn that it would not be a part of the Rafale deal especially since it was involved in different aspects relating to the induction right from the beginning.

“We do not know where things went wrong. We were part of the technical and allied negotiations from the beginning. All of a sudden, however, we were not there. Originally, we were to manufacture 108 of the 126 Rafales to be purchased from Dassault Aviation.” This is the refrain of the HAL officials, past and present, who spoke to The Statesman.

According to them, HAL had prepared itself for the deal even investing substantially in anticipation.

“It would have kept our manufacturing lines busy for the next 15-20 years. Now, following the inexplicable denial, we suddenly find ourselves facing the prospect of idle capacity,” a retired top official admitted.

Admittedly, while the PSU has sufficient orders for helicopters it does not have fresh orders for airaaft which it needs for utilisation of its capacity.

That is a big worry for now. As the officials, who did not want to be named, explained, once the PSU completes the deliveries of the SU-30s in about three years’ time, it will face idle capacity issues.

This, even after taking into account the manufacture and delivery of LCAs for which it will be providing additional lines which were used for making the Hawks. The Hawk AjT, for one, was produced by HAL under licence from BAeS, UK, and the first aircraft was handed over to the IAF in August 2008.

The production programme of 42 Hawks for the IAF was concluded in 2010-11 and subsequently another 57 were supplied. The delivery schedule was completed in July 2016. It has also developed expertise in aircraft upgrades for the Jaguar, NAVWASS aircraft to Darin-11 standard, MiG -21, MiG-27 M, Sea Harrier, Cheetah and Chetak helicopters.

Repeatedly asserting that HAL could have easily delivered the Rafale, one retired official claimed that the organisation would have even given guarantees for what it produced but not for design deficiencies, if any.

“These should come from the OEM,” he said.

After all, HAL had produced Mirages, LCAs and the Hawks, to name a few aircraft, which were still running efficiently. Surely, it should have been given a level playing field, is the common refrain.

Taking exception to the undermining of the company, some of the officials could not hide their anger as they believed that it was imperative for the government to support HAL instead of seeking to run it down. In this context, the officials also wondered about the Repair and Overhaul of the 36 Rafale aircraft which are being purchased now.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

by 2025 its Tejas and HAL not building something like Rafale.

it will take time and HAL can do better. thats good.
Let HAL mature by partnering with others as its doing with Russia and all, also if It can manage the ORDERS on its hands without stalling the Tejas project, which it cant.

Tejas MK2 or MCA is not a joke. ADA is making it, not HAL. Don't mistake

HAL is making Tejas Mk1 as fast as it can do sustainably. India has asked HAL to slow down production because of CAATSA uncertainty about F404 and need to get indigenous Kaveri which is about to be completed in 2 years. HAL has no other problems. Once Kaveri is ready, Tejas will be made in full swing.

china doesnt need ToT. they steal or buy from the source using corruption as they have done already.
The worry for china is India getting ToT and the knowledge and the resource associated with the knowledge that will help India outpace china.
India lacks natural resources which its getting by MOUs elsewhere with other nations. That story is running along its line at full steam.

No one is giving ToT to India or any natural resource. MoU is a joke.

Why are you acting like a USA stooge and not asking why USA refused to help India get technology for semiconductor chips? USA even refused to help ISRO upgrade its fab at SCL, chandiigarh!! USA will die but not allow India to get high end technology. China is not the one trying to stop India.

Russia is not the same as the west. Sure!
My point is the same technology could be with china too. as china is orienting close to Russia, cus they are on a buying spree.
But..Russia maintains some integrity (I hope) the reason why India is still basing some advance tech projects with Russia for the future.

There is no problem is China has same technology.

The Maoists is one chinese sposored activity in India. so is the pak on the western border who is threatening india with nukes, the nukes provided by china in the first place.
Evidence is all over the net. Do the honor yourself if china lets you browse such information.

India never provoked china and take every incident and its the other way around, be it Tibet or Doklam.

Maoists were a response to Indian instigations in Tibet. In Tibet, India had no business interfering in the affairs of Tibet. Tibet is Chinese territory by geography. There is no proper boundary that demarcates Tibet from China and hence there is no way CHina can have a boundary with Tibet. If China had asked India to not annex Hyderabad from Nizam in 1948, India too would be pissed at China. India must not have hosted Tibet govt in exile

Sure china has 3 trillion whatever and china has a hostile administration which is not so good with their "PEACEFUL RISE" but which encroach upon disputed territories.

China has been a great force to counter the violent and vicious USA. China had been wronged by west in the pasta and hence they are taking their territory back. Even Taiwan was part of China but USA is propping up Taiwan against China. China is reacting but not acting violentlt

china has occupied part of Indian kashmir. pakistan sponosored terrorism with chinese help made the Genocide on Kashmir pandits

China and pakistan have an agreement that says that once Kahsmir dispute is settled, the kashmir part give to China will be renegotiated

Are you mentally unsound? Pakistan was USA ally till 2010. How China can sponsor kahmir violence? Hurriyat was also made by CIA

Nobody, then had any doubts on the ToT, as its already played and answered in Parliament session, once.

The ToT has been answered in parliament once. Then what is the India specific modification of $.15-2 billion? The modification of the plane is said to be just software, not worth $2billion

Its double standards that when india buys from Russia, then Indians are not traitors but if Indians buy from elsewhere they are traitors who are destroying local production.

Russia gives ToT on all items. Others don't. So, buying from Russia is correct. Simple logic here.