Know Your 'Rafale'

[mayfair]

The statement by French ministry

 

[indus]

Hollande bitten by the Sadjee bug that makes its victims make U turns.

 

[StealthFlanker]

@Sancho @smestarz @StealthFlanker
TOO NICE !!!
A REAL SLAP IN THE FACE.

What...???.? Are you retarded or sth????

 

[smestarz]

YES true, its not good to compareof an old 4th gen model like Rafale with top of the line 5th Gen plane like Su-57
Now, lets say we order Rafale and Su-57 today, we shall be getting Su-57 at a faster rate, because Rafale does have existing order to give.

Also to ask, are you preparing to fight a war thats past or future war? You cannot fight and win War of futre with weapons of past. Thats my 5 cents.


and for your point 2
https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...ty-could-go-up-to-75/articleshow/50075387.cms

There is a possibility that the availability of the fleet could touch the magical figure of 75 percent. Chishchevoy said that the Russian proposal ten years ago when the fleet was young was to appoint Sukhoi as the single supplier responsible for the serviceability of the fleet and 75 percent would be `guaranteed' .

My two cents...
1. Comparison between Rafale and su57 is incorrect as the former is an inservice plane while the latter is under development. The dwindling squadron strength of IAF needs ready planes, not under development ones. So you shld adjust the timelines for Su57.
2. It was not Sukhoi that proposed 75% availability to Govt. Govt scolded IAF for the abyssmal operational readiness, and pushed the process to improve spares availability by signing long term agreements wth suppliers.

 

[Armand2REP]

So now the charge is no longer that France bribed India, but that India bribed the president of France?

 

[smestarz]

You might need a packet
Copyright © 2000-2018 GlobalSecurity.org All rights reserved.
Site maintained by: John Pike

Take global security info with a pinch of salt. They stopped updating after 2012 ish.

 

[smestarz]

If only knew that its that easy to bribe the French president, we could have "persuaded" Hollande to sign the deal for 126 rafales for 1billion

So now the charge is no longer that France bribed India, but that India bribed the president of France?

 

[vampyrbladez]

You might need a packet
Copyright © 2000-2018 GlobalSecurity.org All rights reserved.
Site maintained by: John Pike

Its site hosting license. That is updated and thats why you see the site online. Early 2000s stuff there is gold.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Aside from RCS warfare on this thread, I like to divert your attention towards the breaking news my fellow forum members. It's now been clarified by NDTV that it was NAMO gov deliberately told the name of Reliance Defence to manufacture the jets. New Scam brewing?

Hmm, seems to me that there will be more Rafael's in the pipeline. Besides it's not new for a gov to support a business giant like Reliance defence, aakhir election ka chanda kaha sai ayega.(where will the funds come from for the upcoming election and many more to come in future) :biggrin2:

Bhaiyo Behno … oops no behno here, as the saying goes … "bik gayi hai yey gormint" (This government is sold)

There is no proof to these bullshit allegations unless some media 'leaks' official documentation stating otherwise.

Only then and if documentation points to govt. can we say a scam occurred. Otherwise this is Congress Party's desperate attempt to sway voters prior to 2019 elections.

 

[Armand2REP]

There is no proof to these bullshit allegations unless some media 'leaks' official documentation stating otherwise.

Only then and if documentation points to govt. can we say a scam occurred. Otherwise this is Congress Party's desperate attempt to sway voters prior to 2019 elections.

None of the accusations even makes since. Dassault is a private entity that takes state orders, the only way Holland or the government could make them do something is if they threatened them with a loss of business. There is no evidence that ever happened. If Modi demanded it of Dassault to get the order, Holland would have had nothing to do with that. It would have been directed at Dassault by Modi.

 

[sorcerer]

Hollande bitten by the Sadjee bug that makes its victims make U turns.

Former Defence minister of France batting for FORMER Govt of India (now opposition)
Very straight forward

 

[hit&run]

So now the charge is no longer that France bribed India, but that India bribed the president of France?

All the jobless leftist, Comies, Jihadis and Congis are together in India these days.

Their only job is to plan, plot and invent lies to derail this government.

This recent controversy was predictable as LW ecosystem talked about getting French Media to speak against it as their media mouthpieces are not taken seriously.

INC under clown prince, Rahul Ghandy used its faithful NDTV. NDTV used its contract journalist to interview a 3rd person who misquoted Hollande.

Every day this LW ecosystem is busy inventing a conspiring such propaganda to somehow derail this deal to benefit China and Pakistan. Probably Russians are also involved.

 

[vampyrbladez]

None of the accusations even makes since. Dassault is a private entity that takes state orders, the only way Holland or the government could make them do something is if they threatened them with a loss of business. There is no evidence that ever happened. If Modi demanded it of Dassault to get the order, Holland would have had nothing to do with that. It would have been directed at Dassault by Modi.

Except how can GoI even order Dassault. DPP 2012 says OEM can choose anyone and Dassault in 2012 and 2013 chose Reliance. In 2016 they had JV. Where is the fix? I can't find any logic behind this?

 

[Armand2REP]

Except how can GoI even order Dassault. DPP 2012 says OEM can choose anyone and Dassault in 2012 and 2013 chose Reliance. In 2016 they had JV. Where is the fix? I can't find any logic behind this?

Upon further inspection this Visvires Capital run by the friend of Ambani invests in 10 French cinema productions every year. It is nothing out of the ordinary for them.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Upon further inspection this Visvires Capital run by the friend of Ambani invests in 10 French cinema productions every year. It is nothing out of the ordinary for them.

I see this Liberal Derangement Syndrome in all liberals globally. Look at Anti Trump 'Resistance'. Lol!

 

[Indrajit]

All the jobless leftist, Comies, Jihadis and Congis are together in India these days.

Their only job is to plan, plot and invent lies to derail this government.

This recent controversy was predictable as LW ecosystem talked about getting French Media to speak against it as their media mouthpieces are not taken seriously.

INC under clown prince, Rahul Ghandy used its faithful NDTV. NDTV used its contract journalist to interview a 3rd person who misquoted Hollande.

Every day this LW ecosystem is busy inventing a conspiring such propaganda to somehow derail this deal to benefit China and Pakistan. Probably Russians are also involved.

It works unfortunately. The idea is to throw how much ever muck they can and hope some sticks. Look at the Pakistanis, they are now going around implying that Indian government stands on talks and Gen.Rawat’s comments are all an attempt to divert from this issue and that Modi is desperately trying to save himself. Everyone gets to feed on this. The truth matters less, the narrative even if twisted,has its uses for both domestic and international opponents.

 

[smestarz]

It is not the question of threatening Dasault., Though I do believe that no bribing took place, how this can work is as follows:
Fact that Holland partners movie was financed by Ambani. So in a way Hollande is "paid" Now Hollande is in Govt and Govt makes policy, Suddenly if the Govt decides to reduce the number of planes that France would purchase further, it would affect the business of Dassault. The Govt makes rules that companies obey, if some rules are made which can in a way hurt jirt Dassault, it would render big losses. After all the govt makes the policy not Dassault. Reliance uses term "managing the environment" So if Hollande or his partner is under obligation of Ambani, he would surely favour Ambani. Also Hollande has to merely "suggest" This has a latin name Quid pro Quo .

Big companies need political support to survive, and politicians need the finance from big companies for their political ambition. Are you so naive not to know this? Also Hollande is the same chap who had Few hundred thousand Euros undeclared in Tax havens correct?

So When Dassault has say options to select 4 partners, its business as usual, With each partner, they have to transfer certain Tech, train people etc. ITs like 4 blank drawing boards. But with Reliance, since its suggested by Hollande who was President of France then, there is point of Favour, which will

None of the accusations even makes since. Dassault is a private entity that takes state orders, the only way Holland or the government could make them do something is if they threatened them with a loss of business. There is no evidence that ever happened. If Modi demanded it of Dassault to get the order, Holland would have had nothing to do with that. It would have been directed at Dassault by Modi.

 

[jik60]

What I can decipher from the present scenario that Raffy MII will be a Herculean task even for the next Modi gov. One can safely say good bye to it. Maybe bit nihilistic but even a G to G deal for the next batch of 36 would be very difficult. May be it would be a blessing in disguise, like in the case for IA Artty after bofors.

I don’t think any government will go for any Europian vendor for any big ticket strategic acquisitions like fighter AC, any more. Simply they don’t have enough zeal or clout over the high and big over here in India. Ruskies were out of picture bcoz the American’s sanctions fear. For the same reason Americans will also be kept at arms length,so IAF will be forced for in-house remedies, they will have to leave their luxurious demands and have to fall in line to fight the WAR with indigenous weapons.

Even if with there good intentions I don’t think French are also serious about the future Raffy MII pgm. Their ex president remark has changed a lot over here, though there is no absolute truth in that. I think it’s more of a India’s own governance or administrative problem rather than any international blame game.
@BON PLAN @halloweene @abingdonboy these guys can talk more on these pure apprehensions.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

What I can decipher from the present scenario that Raffy MII will be a Herculean task even for the next Modi gov. One can safely say good bye to it. Maybe bit nihilistic but even a G to G deal for the next batch of 36 would be very difficult. May be it would be a blessing in disguise, like in the case for IA Artty after bofors.

I don’t think any government will go for any Europian vendor for any big ticket strategic acquisitions like fighter AC, any more. Simply they don’t have enough zeal or clout over the high and big over here in India. Ruskies were out of picture bcoz the American’s sanctions fear. For the same reason Americans will also be kept at arms length,so IAF will be forced for in-house remedies, they will have to leave their luxurious demands and have to fall in line to fight the WAR with indigenous weapons.

Even if with there good intentions I don’t think French are also serious about the future Raffy MII pgm. Their ex president remark has changed a lot over here, though there is no absolute truth in that. I think it’s more of a India’s own governance or administrative problem rather than any international blame game.
@BON PLAN @halloweene @abingdonboy these guys can talk more on these pure apprehensions.

To show that there is no corruption, Modi might as well go for Rafale if terms are good. Opposition can always be branded as traitors.

The question here is - Is rafale needed when Super Sukhoi upgrade is coming soon?

 

[hit&run]

It works unfortunately. The idea is to throw how much ever muck they can and hope some sticks. Look at the Pakistanis, they are now going around implying that Indian government stands on talks and Gen.Rawat’s comments are all an attempt to divert from this issue and that Modi is desperately trying to save himself. Everyone gets to feed on this. The truth matters less, the narrative even if twisted,has its uses for both domestic and international opponents.

Porkistanis are disgraced losers no one care to give any credence. They will die their own miserable death abusing India. They started a forum to abuse us many years ago riding support of USA but look what they are reduced to and where India stands today.

As far as Congress-I is a concern then it is for the people of India to see and chose wisely. The evidence is overwhelming against them. Anyone who still supports them should see his face in the mirror and look into his own eyes and ask this question if he or she will support Modi or Pappu. The clarity will definitely transcend.