Know Your 'Rafale'

[Kchontha]

Rafale's airframe design is not contemporary and will be outdated soon. That is why it is still a fourth gen aircraft. It can't supercruise with weapon loads. There is also serious doubt over its ability to fire meteor missile to the fullest. It couldn't fold its wing and land on Vicki or Iac. So I expect not much more than 36.

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[smestarz]

It would be funny to say that Rafale have 1.5X better range than Su-30 MKI.
Maybe they are talking about the Missiles, Presently Su-30 MKI is armed with R-77 and surely Meteor outranges it. Presently Su-30 MKI does not carry long range ASM, the one that should be used would be Brahmos.
Now going by the range on internal fuel for Rafale, it would be the otherway round, Rafale does not have the long legs that Su-30 MKI has, With the Range Su-30 MKI can hae on its internal fuel, Rafale has to use 3 of its Wet pylons to have Drop tanks. Thus 3 of its 5 heavy pylons will be used only for carrying fuel to compete Su-30 MKI for the range.

Now about the availability part, India is learning about the availability part recently. Rather it was suddenly made aware of it post MMRCA till then India was happy to have the best air dominance plane in the subcontinent. It was not that IAF never had problems with planes before, but they were not aware of all that could be possible. At one point of time Entire Mirage 2000 fleet was grounded due to 0 availability. So by that note do you say that Mirage 2000 is crap?

After parrikar became the DM. he found a lot of problems with IAF, for example IAF was keeping spares of Just 50 crores when in reality it needs spares worth 3500 crores or so, so when you are not buying and keeping spares, how can you have the availability? also the contracting of spares was a complicated issue. Parrikar changed it all and the availabiity rate was up by the time he resigned as DM. Thus what is learnt is that the availbility issue was not due to the plane but about poor planning, logistics and attitude of IAF top brass.. If you say that Su-30 MKI had bad availability rate then Mirage 2000 had zero avaialbility rate as the entire fleet was grounded due to lack of spares..Your point on this? or you want a different yard stick because its French scrap?

Also let me post few #article
https://www.financialexpress.com/in...rviceability-hal-chief-t-suvarna-raju/595777/

A report of the Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) in December 2015 said Su-30 MKI aircraft with the IAF suffer from poor serviceability, which is just around 55 per cent against the prescribed norm of 75 per cent.


In January 2017, the then Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar said the serviceability of the fighters has improved, and is now at 60 per cent. Informed sources said the present serviceability of the Su-30 MKI fleet is between 60 and 65 per cent. Since its induction in the Indian Air Force in 2004, seven Su-30 MKIs have crashed, the last one on Thursday in Rajasthan.

Also another one
https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...ty-could-go-up-to-75/articleshow/50075387.cms

There is a possibility that the availability of the fleet could touch the magical figure of 75 percent. Chishchevoy said that the Russian proposal ten years ago when the fleet was young was to appoint Sukhoi as the single supplier responsible for the serviceability of the fleet and 75 percent would be `guaranteed'.

"Under the new contract, after the receipt of a request from the Indian air force, the spare part wil be delivered to the air force warehouse within 4-12 months, depending on ..

Thus the Russians had given the proposal to ensure 75% availability, but seems IAF refused it

Now anyone who says, that Rafale has 1.5X the range of Su-30 MKI surely does not much about planes, does he?

Talk about your Fake News...

The Rafales that have an operational range one and a half times of our current day best fighters, the Sukhoi 30 MKI. Also, the manufacturer Dassault has assured that at all times, 75% of the Rafale fleet would be kept airworthy. This compares well with our Sukhois which have never crossed the 60% serviceability mark.

https://www.timesnownews.com/india/...gress-bjp-upa-nda-indian-air-force-iaf/279141

Check the date on that, Sep 03, 2018

 

[smestarz]

For plane like F/A-18 taking of from Ski jump should not be a problem. Presently F/A-18 take off using the power of Catapults instead of their own engine power. If Tejas can do it, surely F/A-18. Taking off from Ski jump does not really have challenges as much as Catapult assisted take off as the air frame needs to be stronger for that.
The point would be, Can Naval Tejas use Catapult assisted Take off.. we dont know.
See J-15 uses ski jump, Harriers, F-35, Tejas
Using Ski jump more or less propels the air craft at higher angle thus allowing it to take off at higher angle under its own power. Its one of the simplest way for aircraft to take off. But yes with ski jump, the plane cannot be fully loaded as much as it can be on Catapult assisted take off. The chinese are learning by experience.

Is the SH18 able to take off now from a ski jump? No évidence.

Rafale is a mature plane, perfectly known by DA. If they say it's possible, that means it is possible.
Anyway a ski jump field test will occur in 2019 with SH18 and with Rafale.

Folding wings : no, but Rafale will have removable wings tips (10 minutes to remove, 15 minutes to put). Enough for the indian carrier.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Rafale's airframe design is not contemporary and will be outdated soon. That is why it is still a fourth gen aircraft. It can't supercruise with weapon loads.

Your info is incorrect.

«The Rafale is ideal for the job, stresses one of the two duty pilots. It can climb to 40,000 feet in under two minutes and accelerate very rapidly to supersonic speed. More significantly, it can supercruise in dry power, even with four missiles and a belly drop tank.

https://www.defense-aerospace.com/dae/sponsors/sponsor_rafale/img/fox3_8.pdf

http://rafalefan.e-monsite.com/medias/files/fiche-rafale-le-bourget-2011.jpg

Rafale only performed better with the Sneccma M88 Engines, in a Test mission set by IAF, the Rafale Carry's four Air to air missiles along with two guided bombs, and at the speed of Mach 1.4, and impressed the IAF evaluation team,

Some informations also out, that how and Why IAF Selected the Rafale aircraft, there were three major points leaked, one is the Super Cruise, second is the low Radar cross section, and third is the awesome low flying capability. in these conditions Rafale scored much higher than the Contender Typhoon GR4.

Super Cruise in Super sonic Speed

which means the engines can power the Aircraft without burning any flames, usually the Plane can glide at super sonic ranges without wasting much more energy and Engine power, almost all the contenders in MMRCA comes with super cruise, but Rafale only performed better with the Sneccma M88 Engines, in a Test mission set by IAF, the Rafale Carry's four Air to air missiles along with two guided bombs, and at the speed of Mach 1.4, and impressed the IAF evaluation team,

Super cruise can be used to defeat most Heat seeking or IR Guided missile, which is usually tracks the Target using the Heat signatures, during dog fights or Close combat one was always try to escape from the Red zone with full power, that means he can go full after burner to achieve maximum speed, which also makes the missile for easy target, most of the time the IR guided missiles targets the Flares and the sun's because of Sun's heat spot. But with the Help of Super cruise without making Heat signs the Rafale can escape from the red zone at higher speed with the small design it can also maneuver at high rate to evade the missile.

Low RCS (Radar Cross Section )

It's believed that the Rafale is the second good Fighter with very minimal radar cross section, first comes the American F 22. the IAF impressed over the Rafale's unique feature of nearly invisible to Radars in Long Ranges, earlier the Ex ADA Chief sounded that LCA Tejas also have lesser RCS, but not close to Rafale, Which makes the Rafale easily bypass enemy Borders and Conduct search and reconnaissance missions, also it's lie someone says the Rafale is invisible in Long ranges even with Air to air missiles and PGM's. a simple addition with in aircraft makes the Platform easily visible to Radars,

Even in the Syrian Bombing mission a American B 2 Spirit Stealth bomber makes refueling mission in the air, the footage shows it have a rotating female fuel port, which closes down once the Refueling complete, shows even a small size of object makes huge increment radar visibility.


Low flying

The Rafale is much better in terms of low Flying, the other contenders even nowhere to comes close to the Rafale when it was conducted low flying missions with heavy combat load, makes the Rafale good for SEAD ( Suppressing Enemy Air defense ) missions, means the Rafale can fly very low and Launch it's missile and destroy enemy Radar networks, The Rafale Performed the same in Libya by eliminate almost all of their early warning Radars by using the low flying technique,


IAF has not invested so much money to allow a fruit basket airforce to create logistics during wartime. With no trials for 110 fighters coming up, by all parameters Rafale is clear front runner. Options clause was waived for offset clause.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

Your info is incorrect.



https://www.defense-aerospace.com/dae/sponsors/sponsor_rafale/img/fox3_8.pdf

http://rafalefan.e-monsite.com/medias/files/fiche-rafale-le-bourget-2011.jpg



Some informations also out, that how and Why IAF Selected the Rafale aircraft, there were three major points leaked, one is the Super Cruise, second is the low Radar cross section, and third is the awesome low flying capability. in these conditions Rafale scored much higher than the Contender Typhoon GR4.

Super Cruise in Super sonic Speed

which means the engines can power the Aircraft without burning any flames, usually the Plane can glide at super sonic ranges without wasting much more energy and Engine power, almost all the contenders in MMRCA comes with super cruise, but Rafale only performed better with the Sneccma M88 Engines, in a Test mission set by IAF, the Rafale Carry's four Air to air missiles along with two guided bombs, and at the speed of Mach 1.4, and impressed the IAF evaluation team,

Super cruise can be used to defeat most Heat seeking or IR Guided missile, which is usually tracks the Target using the Heat signatures, during dog fights or Close combat one was always try to escape from the Red zone with full power, that means he can go full after burner to achieve maximum speed, which also makes the missile for easy target, most of the time the IR guided missiles targets the Flares and the sun's because of Sun's heat spot. But with the Help of Super cruise without making Heat signs the Rafale can escape from the red zone at higher speed with the small design it can also maneuver at high rate to evade the missile.

Low RCS (Radar Cross Section )

It's believed that the Rafale is the second good Fighter with very minimal radar cross section, first comes the American F 22. the IAF impressed over the Rafale's unique feature of nearly invisible to Radars in Long Ranges, earlier the Ex ADA Chief sounded that LCA Tejas also have lesser RCS, but not close to Rafale, Which makes the Rafale easily bypass enemy Borders and Conduct search and reconnaissance missions, also it's lie someone says the Rafale is invisible in Long ranges even with Air to air missiles and PGM's. a simple addition with in aircraft makes the Platform easily visible to Radars,

Even in the Syrian Bombing mission a American B 2 Spirit Stealth bomber makes refueling mission in the air, the footage shows it have a rotating female fuel port, which closes down once the Refueling complete, shows even a small size of object makes huge increment radar visibility.


Low flying

The Rafale is much better in terms of low Flying, the other contenders even nowhere to comes close to the Rafale when it was conducted low flying missions with heavy combat load, makes the Rafale good for SEAD ( Suppressing Enemy Air defense ) missions, means the Rafale can fly very low and Launch it's missile and destroy enemy Radar networks, The Rafale Performed the same in Libya by eliminate almost all of their early warning Radars by using the low flying technique,


IAF has not invested so much money to allow a fruit basket airforce to create logistics during wartime. With no trials for 110 fighters coming up, by all parameters Rafale is clear front runner. Options clause was waived for offset clause.

Rafale has 50/75kN engine which compares poorly with Typhoon. I am not sure how Rafales got supercruise with weapon loads. The Rafale itsel weighs 10.3 ton. It has internal fuel of 4.7ton. The total itself becomes 15tons. Now if we add external stores, it will add weight as well as drag. How can you expect a 100/150kN engine (twin 50/75kN) to supercruise with such drag and weight?

 

[smestarz]

Few points here, the http://rafalefan.e-monsite.com/medias/files/fiche-rafale-le-bourget-2011.jpg
Is the information at Paris air show, Thus the manufacturer can give whatever information they want and the same would be incorporated. Thus whatever the manufacturer declares its mentioned there.

When MMRCA was declared, Rafale was one of the declared and used MRCA.. F/A-18, F-16 and Gripen were others,.Eurofighter Typhoon and MiG-35 were mostly marketed as Air superiority plane that can also conduct. some strike. UK was using Tornado as their premier strike plane and Typhoon was their air superiority plane.
The Germans also used the same way. Thus in a way, Rafale was one of the few planes with strike ability and with weapons and avionics dedicated to strike. The other planes were of course Gripen F-16 and F/A-18
The other planes had American content and hence GoI was afraid of sanctions as happened in the past thus the planes that had twin engines and capable planes were Rafale and Eurofighter. But Rafale won due to commercial bid..Rafale is not Stealthy nor can it super cruise in A2G role. Though Rafale fan boys try a lot to spin 5th gen stealthy ability for Rafale, unfortunately, it is not.

Your info is incorrect.



https://www.defense-aerospace.com/dae/sponsors/sponsor_rafale/img/fox3_8.pdf

http://rafalefan.e-monsite.com/medias/files/fiche-rafale-le-bourget-2011.jpg



Some informations also out, that how and Why IAF Selected the Rafale aircraft, there were three major points leaked, one is the Super Cruise, second is the low Radar cross section, and third is the awesome low flying capability. in these conditions Rafale scored much higher than the Contender Typhoon GR4.

Super Cruise in Super sonic Speed

which means the engines can power the Aircraft without burning any flames, usually the Plane can glide at super sonic ranges without wasting much more energy and Engine power, almost all the contenders in MMRCA comes with super cruise, but Rafale only performed better with the Sneccma M88 Engines, in a Test mission set by IAF, the Rafale Carry's four Air to air missiles along with two guided bombs, and at the speed of Mach 1.4, and impressed the IAF evaluation team,

Super cruise can be used to defeat most Heat seeking or IR Guided missile, which is usually tracks the Target using the Heat signatures, during dog fights or Close combat one was always try to escape from the Red zone with full power, that means he can go full after burner to achieve maximum speed, which also makes the missile for easy target, most of the time the IR guided missiles targets the Flares and the sun's because of Sun's heat spot. But with the Help of Super cruise without making Heat signs the Rafale can escape from the red zone at higher speed with the small design it can also maneuver at high rate to evade the missile.

Low RCS (Radar Cross Section )

It's believed that the Rafale is the second good Fighter with very minimal radar cross section, first comes the American F 22. the IAF impressed over the Rafale's unique feature of nearly invisible to Radars in Long Ranges, earlier the Ex ADA Chief sounded that LCA Tejas also have lesser RCS, but not close to Rafale, Which makes the Rafale easily bypass enemy Borders and Conduct search and reconnaissance missions, also it's lie someone says the Rafale is invisible in Long ranges even with Air to air missiles and PGM's. a simple addition with in aircraft makes the Platform easily visible to Radars,

Even in the Syrian Bombing mission a American B 2 Spirit Stealth bomber makes refueling mission in the air, the footage shows it have a rotating female fuel port, which closes down once the Refueling complete, shows even a small size of object makes huge increment radar visibility.


Low flying

The Rafale is much better in terms of low Flying, the other contenders even nowhere to comes close to the Rafale when it was conducted low flying missions with heavy combat load, makes the Rafale good for SEAD ( Suppressing Enemy Air defense ) missions, means the Rafale can fly very low and Launch it's missile and destroy enemy Radar networks, The Rafale Performed the same in Libya by eliminate almost all of their early warning Radars by using the low flying technique,


IAF has not invested so much money to allow a fruit basket airforce to create logistics during wartime. With no trials for 110 fighters coming up, by all parameters Rafale is clear front runner. Options clause was waived for offset clause.

 

[smestarz]

Low flying for strike is going to be thing of the past., Now there are smart missiles which can do the job that the aircraft did, the aircraft will be only stand off delivery platform. For example Does SCALP or Brahmos really need plane to have low flying ability? They have a range of 29kms +
In fact flying low will also make the plane a target for enemy MANPADS and SR SAMS

Your info is incorrect.



https://www.defense-aerospace.com/dae/sponsors/sponsor_rafale/img/fox3_8.pdf

http://rafalefan.e-monsite.com/medias/files/fiche-rafale-le-bourget-2011.jpg



Some informations also out, that how and Why IAF Selected the Rafale aircraft, there were three major points leaked, one is the Super Cruise, second is the low Radar cross section, and third is the awesome low flying capability. in these conditions Rafale scored much higher than the Contender Typhoon GR4.

Super Cruise in Super sonic Speed

which means the engines can power the Aircraft without burning any flames, usually the Plane can glide at super sonic ranges without wasting much more energy and Engine power, almost all the contenders in MMRCA comes with super cruise, but Rafale only performed better with the Sneccma M88 Engines, in a Test mission set by IAF, the Rafale Carry's four Air to air missiles along with two guided bombs, and at the speed of Mach 1.4, and impressed the IAF evaluation team,

Super cruise can be used to defeat most Heat seeking or IR Guided missile, which is usually tracks the Target using the Heat signatures, during dog fights or Close combat one was always try to escape from the Red zone with full power, that means he can go full after burner to achieve maximum speed, which also makes the missile for easy target, most of the time the IR guided missiles targets the Flares and the sun's because of Sun's heat spot. But with the Help of Super cruise without making Heat signs the Rafale can escape from the red zone at higher speed with the small design it can also maneuver at high rate to evade the missile.

Low RCS (Radar Cross Section )

It's believed that the Rafale is the second good Fighter with very minimal radar cross section, first comes the American F 22. the IAF impressed over the Rafale's unique feature of nearly invisible to Radars in Long Ranges, earlier the Ex ADA Chief sounded that LCA Tejas also have lesser RCS, but not close to Rafale, Which makes the Rafale easily bypass enemy Borders and Conduct search and reconnaissance missions, also it's lie someone says the Rafale is invisible in Long ranges even with Air to air missiles and PGM's. a simple addition with in aircraft makes the Platform easily visible to Radars,

Even in the Syrian Bombing mission a American B 2 Spirit Stealth bomber makes refueling mission in the air, the footage shows it have a rotating female fuel port, which closes down once the Refueling complete, shows even a small size of object makes huge increment radar visibility.


Low flying

The Rafale is much better in terms of low Flying, the other contenders even nowhere to comes close to the Rafale when it was conducted low flying missions with heavy combat load, makes the Rafale good for SEAD ( Suppressing Enemy Air defense ) missions, means the Rafale can fly very low and Launch it's missile and destroy enemy Radar networks, The Rafale Performed the same in Libya by eliminate almost all of their early warning Radars by using the low flying technique,


IAF has not invested so much money to allow a fruit basket airforce to create logistics during wartime. With no trials for 110 fighters coming up, by all parameters Rafale is clear front runner. Options clause was waived for offset clause.

 

[smestarz]

Dassault claims it can super cruise, but seems it can do so only with A2A load where the total load is way smaller than the few tons of A2G missile alone. Thus supercruise can be possible with A2A load but not with A2G load where they have SCALP on pylons.

Rafale has 50/75kN engine which compares poorly with Typhoon. I am not sure how Rafales got supercruise with weapon loads. The Rafale itsel weighs 10.3 ton. It has internal fuel of 4.7ton. The total itself becomes 15tons. Now if we add external stores, it will add weight as well as drag. How can you expect a 100/150kN engine (twin 50/75kN) to supercruise with such drag and weight?

 

[BON PLAN]

Dude! don't you know indian missile development is very rapid. How dare you bad-mouthed a nation's strategic program! Who the hell do you think you are?

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Just see the Nirbhay missile problems. I don't think we can say you are master in this field.

 

[BON PLAN]

Rafale's airframe design is not contemporary and will be outdated soon. That is why it is still a fourth gen aircraft. It can't supercruise with weapon loads. There is also serious doubt over its ability to fire meteor missile to the fullest. It couldn't fold its wing and land on Vicki or Iac. So I expect not much more than 36.

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Please read that. It was presented officialy by Dassault on the Le Bourget show some years ago : Supercruise with one supersonic tank and 4 missiles. The naval model, the heavier, can supercruise to Mach1.4 with 6 missiles..... Are we agree missiles are loads ?

not contemporary airframe ? What are the newer operationnal fighters in the world? Let answer to that and you will understand it is a very recent airframe.

Doubt about its ability to fire Meteor? Are you serious. Meteor is qualified on Rafale since 1.5 years. (see next post)

No need of folding wings for Rafale (see previous posts)

 

[BON PLAN]

http://www.defens-aero.com/2017/04/missile-air-air-meteor-integre-rafale.html

Traduction : Meteor Missile is integrated on Rafale. News from 10 april 2017. From the french DGA (Direction générale de l'Armement). Nothing more official.

And, just for you, don't forget that Rafale is the first to have an AESA and Meteor. Eurofoghter will be the next, but not before 2019 in an intermediate standard if all go according to the last plan (some delays already occured...)

 

[BON PLAN]

Dassault claims it can super cruise, but seems it can do so only with A2A load where the total load is way smaller than the few tons of A2G missile alone. Thus supercruise can be possible with A2A load but not with A2G load where they have SCALP on pylons.

Just give us the model of a plane able to supercruise with a cruise missiles load ?
search my good Smestarz, search....

 

[BON PLAN]

For plane like F/A-18 taking of from Ski jump should not be a problem. Presently F/A-18 take off using the power of Catapults instead of their own engine power. If Tejas can do it, surely F/A-18. Taking off from Ski jump does not really have challenges as much as Catapult assisted take off as the air frame needs to be stronger for that.
The point would be, Can Naval Tejas use Catapult assisted Take off.. we dont know.
See J-15 uses ski jump, Harriers, F-35, Tejas
Using Ski jump more or less propels the air craft at higher angle thus allowing it to take off at higher angle under its own power. Its one of the simplest way for aircraft to take off. But yes with ski jump, the plane cannot be fully loaded as much as it can be on Catapult assisted take off. The chinese are learning by experience.

"should" A word to forget in the plane or missile world.
If Tejas, a tail less Delta (without couple canards) is able to take of from ski jump, a Rafale designed to operate from carrier, with close coupled canards, and studied by the world master in Delta surly could.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

"should" A word to forget in the plane or missile world.
If Tejas, a tail less Delta (without couple canards) is able to take of from ski jump, a Rafale designed to operate from carrier, with close coupled canards, and studied by the world master in Delta surly could.

Tejas Mk1 has wing area of 39m^2 whereas Rafale has Wing area of 46m^2. For Tejas MK2 or MCA, the wing size will increase and hence the wingspan will be about 44 m^2 very close to rafale

Let us look at performance:

MCA will have empty weight of about 7.5-8 ton (IAF to Navy) and fuel of 3.3 ton, totaling 10.8-11.3 ton. Rafale has weight of 10-10.6 ton (Airforce vs Navy) and fuel of 4.7ton totaling 14.7-15.3 ton. The engine for MCA will be Kaveri at 62/97kN while for rafale will be 100/150kN.

Let us take a scenario of of a sortie:

For same performance, Rafale and MCA will need fuel at 3:2 ratio. So, taking external fuel tank weight for rafale as 2 ton and MCA as 1.3 tons, pylon and overhead weight as 500kg each and payload of 3ton each. We get MCA with total weight of 15.6-16.1 tons and Rafale with weight of 20.2-20.8 ton. The wing area of MCA is same as Rafale and engine is about 97kN and 150kN respectively while take-off.

Now, take-off ground requirement:

The ratio of engine thrust to weight in MCA and Rafale will be: 0.615-0.6 and 0.742-0.72 while wingloading will for MCA and Rafale be: 354-366 and 439-452 while take-off.

The extra lift to MCA due to lower wingloading will be compensated by higher thrust per weight of Rafale and hence while carrying 2.5ton payload, the take-off runway for above mentioned scenario will be same for rafale and MCA.

Conclusion:

Rafale being a twin engined fighter than is more expensive and consumes more fuel than MCA, iRafale is economical compared to MCA only when the payload to be delivered is 4-5ton. MCA is economical when payload to be delivered is under 3.5 tons. Since carrier has run way limitation, the payload has to be limited.

In cases of sub-3ton payload or carrier operations, MCA is more economical and fit than rafale/ Rafale can't take off from a carrier with full load and the lighter loads can be carried by MCA too, making Rafale redundant for carrier operation.

 

[WolfPack86]

Amidst political storm, IAF deputy chief Air Marshal ‘Nambi’ Nambiar to front-seat fly a Rafale tomorrow in France. Nambi well known as being among first test pilots on the LCA Tejas program & flying precision strikes on Tiger Hill during the 1999 Kargil conflict.

 

[WolfPack86]

The aircraft IAF deputy chief Air Marshal Nambiar flies tomorrow is a Dassault-owned Rafale testbed sporting the India-specific software & system enhancements. This is separate from the first Rafale for India, scheduled to make its first flight next month. (File pic)

 

[BON PLAN]

Tejas Mk1 has wing area of 39m^2 whereas Rafale has Wing area of 46m^2. For Tejas MK2 or MCA, the wing size will increase and hence the wingspan will be about 44 m^2 very close to rafale

Let us look at performance:

MCA will have empty weight of about 7.5-8 ton (IAF to Navy) and fuel of 3.3 ton, totaling 10.8-11.3 ton. Rafale has weight of 10-10.6 ton (Airforce vs Navy) and fuel of 4.7ton totaling 14.7-15.3 ton. The engine for MCA will be Kaveri at 62/97kN while for rafale will be 100/150kN.

Let us take a scenario of of a sortie:

For same performance, Rafale and MCA will need fuel at 3:2 ratio. So, taking external fuel tank weight for rafale as 2 ton and MCA as 1.3 tons, pylon and overhead weight as 500kg each and payload of 3ton each. We get MCA with total weight of 15.6-16.1 tons and Rafale with weight of 20.2-20.8 ton. The wing area of MCA is same as Rafale and engine is about 97kN and 150kN respectively while take-off.

Now, take-off ground requirement:

The ratio of engine thrust to weight in MCA and Rafale will be: 0.615-0.6 and 0.742-0.72 while wingloading will for MCA and Rafale be: 354-366 and 439-452 while take-off.

The extra lift to MCA due to lower wingloading will be compensated by higher thrust per weight of Rafale and hence while carrying 2.5ton payload, the take-off runway for above mentioned scenario will be same for rafale and MCA.

Conclusion:

Rafale being a twin engined fighter than is more expensive and consumes more fuel than MCA, iRafale is economical compared to MCA only when the payload to be delivered is 4-5ton. MCA is economical when payload to be delivered is under 3.5 tons. Since carrier has run way limitation, the payload has to be limited.

In cases of sub-3ton payload or carrier operations, MCA is more economical and fit than rafale/ Rafale can't take off from a carrier with full load and the lighter loads can be carried by MCA too, making Rafale redundant for carrier operation.

MCA is a wet dream for the moment.
Please, don't use the same argument that Lockeed Martin. If you want I can produce a marvellous fighter on a power point in a few days !

For the moment, in the real life, there are : Tejas, Tejas Mk1, AMCA. Even AMCA is for 2030 more or less (ie Sci Fi in the indian time).

Tejas Mk2 is , as far as I know, a paper project, and MCA even more.

Some month ago it was LCA. Where is LCA now?

Rafale is here. Now. 100% real.
Sure it will be outdated, but not now and not until 15 years at least. F3R is just closed, F4 is on track and MLU after that.

 

[BON PLAN]

Amidst political storm, IAF deputy chief Air Marshal ‘Nambi’ Nambiar to front-seat fly a Rafale tomorrow in France. Nambi well known as being among first test pilots on the LCA Tejas program & flying precision strikes on Tiger Hill during the 1999 Kargil conflict.

His impressions, if publicly released, may be very interesting !

 

[Armand2REP]

The aircraft IAF deputy chief Air Marshal Nambiar flies tomorrow is a Dassault-owned Rafale testbed sporting the India-specific software & system enhancements. This is separate from the first Rafale for India, scheduled to make its first flight next month. (File pic)

It is actually owned by India and will be the last one delivered.

 

[Kchontha]

Your unimpressive explanation about Rafale's supercruising capabilities with full weapon loads is just a fan boy blaberring 'my toy is the most beautiful' which is available in OEM brochure or its stooges media for advertisement of their product since everybody has doubt over the supercruising abilities of the mighty f22 with full weapons loads.
Rafale's Terrain hugging capabilities is concerned you seems to forget that there are also other better terrain hugger from LM and to me it seems like that rafale is Jack of all master of none sort of aircraft.

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