Know Your 'Rafale'

[Immanuel]

Just ask you why IAF dont' want more SU30MKI, even if it is more affordable than Rafale.

It's better than to express rough fake news.

Well current order book is for 272, there are 40 more being ordered, IAF continues to buy the MKI. Better yet the new batch of 40 will be Brahmos capable.

 

[Immanuel]

explain me why?
To make a cobra manoeuver during aero show is not a proof. In combat is absolutely useless. More, it's dangerous.

and HAL just integrate components for these FBW. Software is in a black box.

By that measure, to make a 9-10G maneuver in a clean Rafale during an airshow is also useless. Add a decent payload and all that agility decreases by a good measure.

The software for Rafale will be just as much be a black box.

 

[nongaddarliberal]

What is the thing that makes Rafale better than Su30, Su35? Please explain first. Then, what is the great roadmap for the future? Will it become invisible?

We are Waiting for ‘beautiful and capable’ Rafale aircraft: IAF Vice Chief Air Marshal

https://m.economictimes.com/news/de...vice-chief-air-marshal/videoshow/65688479.cms

The IAF after extensive trials is really impressed with this aircraft, and are willing to pay much more money for it rather than simply buying more Su 30mkis, which means that it does some roles better. Not saying it's overall better than the sukhoi, but obviously there is something to it that leads the IAF to say that simply building more sukhois is not a replacement for the Rafale deal.

 

[Kchontha]

Comparing mki with rafale is just like comparing oranges with apples. Mki is the one and only and the best heavy combat aircraft iaf have possessed at the moment and its up gradation to super mki with a new AESA radar, Al 41 engine and terrain hugging flying capabilities will be even more fearsome to the enemies. At the moment iaf will have only 36 Rafale and a few more might be added provided our economy is better and it performs upto expectation. But at the moment amca and tejas mk2/MCA are the priority.

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk

 

[BON PLAN]

Independent of the Merits of the Rafale. Here is a basic Reality.

a) India is doing Rafale with hope of a ToT which might translate into bigger deals(126 aircraft). That is why 36 Initially, to give a taste of what is possible and what is not.

b) You might want to talk about India being poor and all that, but, Reality is, not that many Rafales fly across the world. So, India has potential to be Rafale's biggest customer. Perhaps, some co-ordination is required for that to happen. Any statements in bad taste can have a huge impact in the longer run. This is an election year.

After all this, India values France as a partner, But, any self-respecting nation wants a certain amount of indigenous Growth. The Safran help for Kaveri is a key step in this deal. Making that successful could imply 100 more aircraft in the future from rafale. If ToT does not happen there, it will impact financials.and in the long run jobs.

Cheers..

I agree all.

I think India missed a chance with MMRCA"1" : DA was searching a first export customer, and was not so busy. So without the total blocage with HAL about warranty, You may have yet a MII Rafale, all customerized. Now things have changed a little bit (Qatar customisation imply that the indian ones came after, DA is probably less flexible about MII, and the french line is busy...)

 

[BON PLAN]

Nirmala Sitharaman blames HAL capability, A.K. Antony for UPA’s Rafale deal failure

https://www.thehindu.com/news/natio...upas-rafale-deal-collapse/article24942902.ece

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

I agree all.

I think India missed a chance with MMRCA"1" : DA was searching a first export customer, and was not so busy. So without the total blocage with HAL about warranty, You may have yet a MII Rafale, all customerized. Now things have changed a little bit (Qatar customisation imply that the indian ones came after, DA is probably less flexible about MII, and the french line is busy...)

Eve after the HAL problem was about to be resolved by new government of India, France refused to give away required ToT agreement. Defence minister Parrikar then issued a statement in 2015 saying that Su30 is enough and there was no need for Rafales. It was after this that Dassault accepted to compromise and give the deal India wanted.

 

[Kchontha]

I agree all.

I think India missed a chance with MMRCA"1" : DA was searching a first export customer, and was not so busy. So without the total blocage with HAL about warranty, You may have yet a MII Rafale, all customerized. Now things have changed a little bit (Qatar customisation imply that the indian ones came after, DA is probably less flexible about MII, and the french line is busy...)

Instead, DA/French missed the bus because they didn't know how to do business, didn't know why mmrca1 was touted as mother of all deals, didn't know India has other option and didn't know rafale is only a 4+gen etc.

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk

 

[Jackd]

Well current order book is for 272, there are 40 more being ordered, IAF continues to buy the MKI. Better yet the new batch of 40 will be Brahmos capable.

No, the number is 272 only and more aren't being ordered.

 

[mayfair]

Third, recall me since when the Tejas is in dev? You want to call it gen 4.5 ??? il more a 4-- or a 3++

Go bugger off with your piss worthy assessment of Tejas. We care nought for what you or your likes think of Tejas.It is OUR plane and we very well KNOW what IT IS capable of.

 

[BON PLAN]

Eve after the HAL problem was about to be resolved by new government of India, France refused to give away required ToT agreement. Defence minister Parrikar then issued a statement in 2015 saying that Su30 is enough and there was no need for Rafales. It was after this that Dassault accepted to compromise and give the deal India wanted.

The HAL problem was and is never resolved !!!

Parrikar used Su30 as a bargaining tool. Not more. Rafale is preferred by IAF, and who is the best to judge a fighter if not IAF ?

The deal India wanted... OK ! => so all 36 fighters made in France.... are you sure it is the deal India want?

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

The HAL problem was and is never resolved !!!

Parrikar used Su30 as a bargaining tool. Not more. Rafale is preferred by IAF, and who is the best to judge a fighter if not IAF ?

The deal India wanted... OK ! => so all 36 fighters made in France.... are you sure it is the deal India want?

Other offsets like development of aerospace industry in India for civilian aircraft or transport aircrafts etc may have been included in the deal. The items like meteor and few other missiles are also having high end technology. So, the rafale itself may not have bee the centrepiece

 

[BON PLAN]

Instead, DA/French missed the bus because they didn't know how to do business, didn't know why mmrca1 was touted as mother of all deals, didn't know India has other option and didn't know rafale is only a 4+gen etc.

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk

LOL !

DA is a private company. They earned a lot of money. They are "only" 14000 peoples (compare with LM for exemple) but are able to develop and produce the actual best fighter of the moment. SO PLEASE, DON'T SAY THEY DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO BUSINESS.

other option? OK. Remember me what was the fighter ordered at the end?

Gen 4 ? 4+ ? 4++ ? ... F35 isn't a 5th gen according to the LM proper standarts, so.... only marketing arguments.

I prefer the way DA use to make business than the way HAL use to produce Tejas, or the modernisation phase of M2000....

Just open the eyes.

 

[BON PLAN]

Go bugger off with your piss worthy assessment of Tejas. We care nought for what you or your likes think of Tejas.It is OUR plane and we very well KNOW what IT IS capable of.

.

 

[BON PLAN]

Other offsets like development of aerospace industry in India for civilian aircraft or transport aircrafts etc may have been included in the deal. The items like meteor and few other missiles are also having high end technology. So, the rafale itself may not have bee the centrepiece

The deal includes :
Production of components (and probably next an assembly line) for Falcon jets. If a subsequent new order of Rafale is inked, this factory will be the assembly line.
A probable access to the nuclear simulation Megajoule.
The Safran help to revial Kaveri.
Maybe a help on some tactical missile technology (I don't know the exact details).
Maybe a help for the design (or to optimise the design) of some components for nuclear subs.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

Production of components (and probably next an assembly line) for Falcon jets.

This is very useful for making transport planes ad getting rid of C130

The Safran help to revial Kaveri.

This is just certification ad audit. Not impressive.

Maybe a help on some tactical missile technology

India already has advanced and fully indigenous technology and needs nothing more.

Maybe a help for the design (or to optimise the design) of some components for nuclear subs

India needs indigenisation of Scorpene, not Arihant. May be scorpene indigenisation will be increased.

In addition, meteor, MICA etc are also advanced technology which can be studied by India to make its own ones

 

[Jackd]

This is very useful for making transport planes ad getting rid of C130

This is just certification ad audit. Not impressive.

India already has advanced and fully indigenous technology and needs nothing more.

India needs indigenisation of Scorpene, not Arihant. May be scorpene indigenisation will be increased.

In addition, meteor, MICA etc are also advanced technology which can be studied by India to make its own ones

Dude, Kaveri was a dead end and we should be thankful to Safran for reviving it.

Arihant is a test bed and the following subs will be the real deal which is why foreign collaboration is required. We are not as advanced as you think we are.

As far as tactical missiles are concerned, help is never unwanted and India needs all the help it can get.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

Dude, Kaveri was a dead end and we should be thankful to Safran for reviving it.

Acording to who is Kaveri dead end? You made up your own fantasies? Do you have evidence to say that? Can you tell me when did India close down Kaveri programme or disbanded GTRE or made the funds of Kaveri to absolute 0?
If you can't answer questions, you are blabbering nonsense

Arihant is a test bed and the following subs will be the real deal which is why foreign collaboration is required. We are not as advanced as you think we are.

This is again your opinions. A nuclear submarine like Ariant is not a dummy submarine without functionality. What collaboration is required? Can you explain? In which field is the collaboration needed when the submarine is working already?

As far as tactical missiles are concerned, help is never unwanted and India needs all the help it can get.

You will keep irritating until you die it seems. When India has missiles of its own which even France does not have, why will India buy Rafale with $8billion dollar for cheap assistance or unnecessary assistance?

 

[lcafanboy]

First, I don't care what you think about me.
Second, I go on all the forum I want.
Third, recall me since when the Tejas is in dev? You want to call it gen 4.5 ??? il more a 4-- or a 3++

And Rafales 5, 5++, 6th gen?

You forgot India was laughed at when it launched SLV but now ISRO reached Mars, launched 2 British satellites in its first ever full commercial launch and by 2020 India will have its own Ariane class HLV rockets and will give Ariane a run for money.

As for lca Tejas it will lead to mca and later to stealth amca.

Here are a few concepts with which ada, hal and DRDO has and could be experimenting with...

 

[Jackd]

Acording to who is Kaveri dead end? You made up your own fantasies? Do you have evidence to say that? Can you tell me when did India close down Kaveri programme or disbanded GTRE or made the funds of Kaveri to absolute 0?
If you can't answer questions, you are blabbering nonsense

Then why did they accept the help of Safran, they should have just enrolled you and you would magically ended their 25-year drought. I did not say that they ended the program, I said they hit a brick wall and they needed help, which is where Safran stepped in. The engine was overweight and produced insufficient thrust, it is a fact and any level headed person will tell you that.

As far as Arihant is concerned, the bloody project was built under the guise of Advanced Technology vehicle. Here is what Admiral Nirmal Verma , CNS said about INS Arihant:
Though he did not elaborate, Admiral Verma did say that the
the "tremendous amount of capability'' gained in the ATV
would not be allowed to wither away.
The over 6,000-tonne INS Arihant will be more of a technology demonstrator
for the subsequent follow-on nuclear submarines to follow.

Being a TD does not mean that it is non-operational. With regards to collaboration, what we have achieved with INS Arihant is cool but still not at par with N-subs of other countries when it comes to critical technologies and armament. Fuel change in a submarine reactor, a navy vet associated with the project has said that it is a protracted and cumbersome process requiring the hull of the submarine to be cut open. The submarine arm of the Navy had previously expressed its reservations over the long “turnaround time” and frequent “fuel change cycles” of the Arihant class of submarines. Source : https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ins-arihant-may-be-of-limited-utility/article6709623.ece
Also, Arihant was built with considerable help from India and it is acknowledged by everyone. Don't think that we achieved it on our own, we should not act conceited.

As far as missiles are concerned Bon plan was talking about tactical missiles and what I suggested was nothing blasphemous, if scientists require help they will take help regardless of what you think.