Know Your 'Rafale'

[Immanuel]

for my friend @Sancho

HAL 'did not have required capability to produce Rafale': Defence Minister Sitharaman

Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman has said that the PSU 'did not have the required capability to produce them'. In a detailed interview with news agency PTI, Nirmala Sitharaman said that HAL was in 'no position to give a guarantee' for the big ticket item, as a result of which Dassault, the Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) of Rafale jets, could not proceed with the negotiations with HAL

UPA predecessor A K Antony saying he did not do anything about improving HAL's capabilities.

Even during negotiation with HAL, Dassault felt that the cost with which the HAL will produce will be far higher than the aircraft produced in France. That was the reality,"

https://www.timesnownews.com/india/article/hindustan-aeronautics-limited-hal-did-not-have-required-capability-to-produce-rafale-did-not-guarantee-dassault-nirmala-sitharaman-hits-out-at-a-k/284374

That is a bull shit excuse, the RFP was clear MRCA required HAL to be lead integrator and the OEM had to guarantee HAL's work. HAL was very much capable of producing a lot bigger and far more complex 4.5 gen fighter Su-30MKI without any major issues from raw material stage. If Dassault couldn't work with HAL they didn't need to participate. Rafale wasn't L1 at all.

The cost of HAL made Rafale would have been greater since Dassault was insisting on French made rigs, machinery, test equipment etc to make the Rafale in India while HAL was hoping to source the same machinery in competitive tenders from potentially other suppliers at lower costs. HAL eventually caved and agreed to use French equipment but Dassault still refused to provide guarantee for HAL's work (while the total cost ballooned since Dassult choose to keep out in their initial price offer and lot of set-up costs) and that was it. Dassault was being an asshole the whole time even on TOT.

 

[BON PLAN]

That is a bull shit excuse, the RFP was clear MRCA required HAL to be lead integrator and the OEM had to guarantee HAL's work. HAL was very much capable of producing a lot bigger and far more complex 4.5 gen fighter Su-30MKI without any major issues from raw material stage. If Dassault couldn't work with HAL they didn't need to participate. Rafale wasn't L1 at all.

The cost of HAL made Rafale would have been greater since Dassault was insisting on French made rigs, machinery, test equipment etc to make the Rafale in India while HAL was hoping to source the same machinery in competitive tenders from potentially other suppliers at lower costs. HAL eventually caved and agreed to use French equipment but Dassault still refused to provide guarantee for HAL's work (while the total cost ballooned since Dassult choose to keep out in their initial price offer and lot of set-up costs) and that was it. Dassault was being an asshole the whole time.

bla bla bla.

HAL is so many late with 3gen Tejas....

Su 30 : for how many times they started to begin with? Until then they are not producing all. And rafale is a far more complexe plane (all wings panels in composite, new welding technics, far more advanced electronics, stealth technology)...

STOP YOUR BAD RAFALE BASHING.

The sole asshole I see is not Dassault.

 

[Immanuel]

bla bla bla.

HAL is so many late with 3gen Tejas....

Su 30 : for how many times they started to begin with? Until then they are not producing all. And rafale is a far more complexe plane (all wings panels in composite, new welding technics, far more advanced electronics, stealth technology)...

STOP YOUR BAD RAFALE BASHING.

The sole asshole I see is not Dassault.

Tejas even in MK-1 is a 4.5 gen aircraft.

MKI has a far more sophisticated FBW, except for Meteor a far better weapons integration (all done by HAL), capable of nuke attack with a far more superior Brahmos, can run circles around a Rafale in WVR and till Meteor came along even in BVR.

 

[BON PLAN]

MKI has a far more sophisticated FBW

explain me why?
To make a cobra manoeuver during aero show is not a proof. In combat is absolutely useless. More, it's dangerous.

and HAL just integrate components for these FBW. Software is in a black box.

 

[BON PLAN]

except for Meteor a far better weapons integration

why a better integration?
MKI hasn't something lethal as AASM.

 

[BON PLAN]

capable of nuke attack with a far more superior Brahmos

Brahmos is not nuke capable so far. But why not.
Rafale used a lighter, more stealthy, more ranged ASMPA.

 

[BON PLAN]

can run circles around a Rafale in WVR

absolutely no proof of that.
Rafale is, until now, handicaped by the lack of helmet. Thanks to Qatar it's no more the case.

 

[BON PLAN]

Just ask you why IAF dont' want more SU30MKI, even if it is more affordable than Rafale.

It's better than to express rough fake news.

 

[BON PLAN]

rafale deal smear campaign to target Narendra Modi causes unacceptable damage to integrity of men in buniform

"Congress of today is anti-national party. Just like Democrates in USA prefer immigrants over Americans, Congress of India caters to foreign interests over local and Muslim interests over Hindu.

Look up the infamous declassified Swiss fighter competition report on all contenders: Rafale and EF were on top with F-16, F-18 and Gripen left behind in key parameters. So choice of Rafale is a wise one. Look up their sales to Egypt, Qatar and see how much they paid: more than India.

Indian AF Mirage-2000 saved the day in Kargil. Few weapon systems can alter the outcome of a short war more than fighter jet and hence Rafale can be considered a game changer in South Asia. I am certain that Chinese are celebrating the behavior of Congress as a free sabotage activity on their behalf! They do not have the technology to match French but I am sure they will do anything to stop India from acquiring such top of the line system."

and more to read...

https://www.firstpost.com/india/raf...-and-integrity-of-men-in-uniform-5171641.html

 

[arya]

Just ask you why IAF dont' want more SU30MKI, even if it is more affordable than Rafale.

It's better than to express rough fake news.

Because su30 mki is not future planes, chinese flying su35 & j20 & we have su30 mki only ,these planes are getting old & need upgradation to counter Chinese su35 but russia is offering su35 .

well in my view we should think & act for future , IAF needs fighter planes to counter enemies . we should buy su35, f16, rafale, tejas mk2, amca.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

Because su30 mki is not future planes, chinese flying su35 & j20 & we have su30 mki only ,these planes are getting old & need upgradation to counter Chinese su35 but russia is offering su35 .

well in my view we should think & act for future , IAF needs fighter planes to counter enemies . we should buy su35, f16, rafale, tejas mk2, amca.

What absurdity! How is F16 any more advanced than Su30? India makes Su30 while importing rafales is also nt advisable. Unless there was some meaningful deal which is above mere supply of planes, it is not worth pursuing Rafales. The conditions are yet unknown and under secrecy

 

[indus]

Because su30 mki is not future planes, chinese flying su35 & j20 & we have su30 mki only ,these planes are getting old & need upgradation to counter Chinese su35 but russia is offering su35 .

well in my view we should think & act for future , IAF needs fighter planes to counter enemies . we should buy su35, f16, rafale, tejas mk2, amca.

There is not much difference between Su30mki and Su35. Yes the 35 is few specs higher. MkI is not an outdated plane infront of Su35, and J20 being its Chinese copy. Even the Mid Life upgrades for MkIs is due to come. So MKIs can handle both Su35 and J20 in the Tibetan airspace quite well. Only odd is the numbers in Chinese favor. Btw to counter enemies you suggest buying an outdated plane F16 and AMCA which is on paper, tells volumes abt ur knowledge of aircrafts.

 

[darshan978]

bla bla bla.

HAL is so many late with 3gen Tejas....

Su 30 : for how many times they started to begin with? Until then they are not producing all. And rafale is a far more complexe plane (all wings panels in composite, new welding technics, far more advanced electronics, stealth technology)...

STOP YOUR BAD RAFALE BASHING.

The sole asshole I see is not Dassault.

hey idiot if you wanna call tejas 3rd jet then you should quickly gtfo from this forum.
i cant tolerate your ignorance.
what i i say rafale is 3rd gen jet? which stand no chance against f35?
you better not discuss about tejas if you wann aprove tejas inferior out of your inferiority complex..

 

[Kchontha]

To counter Chinese aerial threat India needs which fighter aircraft? Do we need aerial tools in terms of both quality and quantity? What aerial war devices enemies are flying these days? Guruji, punditji log out there please advice I am a novice in this front...

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk

 

[dude00720]

explain me why?
To make a cobra manoeuver during aero show is not a proof. In combat is absolutely useless. More, it's dangerous.

and HAL just integrate components for these FBW. Software is in a black box.

Independent of the Merits of the Rafale. Here is a basic Reality.

a) India is doing Rafale with hope of a ToT which might translate into bigger deals(126 aircraft). That is why 36 Initially, to give a taste of what is possible and what is not.

b) You might want to talk about India being poor and all that, but, Reality is, not that many Rafales fly across the world. So, India has potential to be Rafale's biggest customer. Perhaps, some co-ordination is required for that to happen. Any statements in bad taste can have a huge impact in the longer run. This is an election year.

After all this, India values France as a partner, But, any self-respecting nation wants a certain amount of indigenous Growth. The Safran help for Kaveri is a key step in this deal. Making that successful could imply 100 more aircraft in the future from rafale. If ToT does not happen there, it will impact financials.and in the long run jobs.

Cheers..

 

[mayfair]

36 aircraft constitute two squadrons. India and IAF has a history of inducting platforms in two squadrons, as this is the minimum needed to get a feel of the system, evolve the tactical plans and set up training, logistics, maintenance and support infrastructure.

40 Mirage 2000s were bought in a fly away condition (with nary but a gun) in 1980s and 100 were to follow, but the plan was nixed. Mig 29s were also inducted that way for an eventual strength of 66. We started with 2 squadrons of Su30K, and they were replaced with MKIs when they became available in 2001, a full five years AFTER we had signed the contract for Su30 in 1996.

 

[BON PLAN]

Because su30 mki is not future planes, chinese flying su35 & j20 & we have su30 mki only ,these planes are getting old & need upgradation to counter Chinese su35 but russia is offering su35 .

well in my view we should think & act for future , IAF needs fighter planes to counter enemies . we should buy su35, f16, rafale, tejas mk2, amca.

Impossible to compare Tejas, F16 and Su35 for exemple. A light, a light medium and a heavy one....
They are not studied for the same role.

 

[BON PLAN]

it is not worth pursuing Rafales. The conditions are yet unknown and under secrecy

LOL.
It's just the best medium fighter of the moment, with a strong road map for the future.

 

[BON PLAN]

hey idiot if you wanna call tejas 3rd jet then you should quickly gtfo from this forum.
i cant tolerate your ignorance.
what i i say rafale is 3rd gen jet? which stand no chance against f35?
you better not discuss about tejas if you wann aprove tejas inferior out of your inferiority complex..

First, I don't care what you think about me.
Second, I go on all the forum I want.
Third, recall me since when the Tejas is in dev? You want to call it gen 4.5 ??? il more a 4-- or a 3++

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

LOL.
It's just the best medium fighter of the moment, with a strong road map for the future.

What is the thing that makes Rafale better than Su30, Su35? Please explain first. Then, what is the great roadmap for the future? Will it become invisible?