Know Your 'Rafale'

[asianobserve]

According to Orbital ATK it is only compatible on external stores which makes the F-35 non-effective. As I said before, it is only effective with an SDB saturation attack from internal carriage. Any legacy fighter like a Super Hornet trying to engage S-400 is laughable.

Did you get this info from Russian defence forums? No, AGM-88E-ER is designed to be carried internally in the F-35.

Here's Orbital ATK brochure on this:

AARGM-ER addresses capability gaps created by 2020+ threats:
● Strike aircraft weapon delivery from sanctuary
● Enhanced weapon survivability
● Compatibility with F-35 internal bay integration
https://www.orbitalatk.com/defense-...tems/aargm/docs/AARGM-ER Fact Sheet FINAL.pdf

And here are mock-up photos of AGM-88E-ER:

 

[Armand2REP]

Did you get this info from Russian defence forums? No, AGM-88E-ER is designed to be carried internally in the F-35.

Aircraft Compatibility: All variants of F/A-18, Tornado, EA-18G, F-16, EA-6B, and F-35 (external)

https://www.orbitalatk.com/defense-...ARGM Fact Sheet OA Interim.pdf#search="AARGM"

 

[asianobserve]

Any legacy fighter like a Super Hornet trying to engage S-400 is laughable.

Are you sure? US legacy fighters including Super Hornet have more weapons and tricks on its arsenal to counter emerging threats than any other country in and outside NATO.

An illustration of some of the known weapons and systems that could counter S-400 and the likes:



MBDA can also use Spear missile for this kind of work:


Then there are Growlers which will be electronically attacking S-400 sites even before the kenetic weapons arrive.

Once the new Next Generation Jammer comes into service the Growler would even be more formidable in EW. Interestingly, the Next Gen Jammer has the ability to insert virus into computer systems of its targets.

 

[asianobserve]

Aircraft Compatibility: All variants of F/A-18, Tornado, EA-18G, F-16, EA-6B, and F-35 (external)

https://www.orbitalatk.com/defense-systems/defense-electronic-systems/aargm/docs/AARGM Fact Sheet OA Interim.pdf#search="AARGM"

Read again. What you quoted is for the current AGM-88E. What can be carried internally is the soon to be fielded AGM-88E-ER.

 

[Armand2REP]

Read again. What you quoted is for the current AGM-88E. What can be carried internally is the soon to be fielded AGM-88E-ER.

As I said before, there is no point arguing over weapons that do not exist. A design concept is just that, a concept.

 

[asianobserve]

As I said before, there is no point arguing over weapons that do not exist. A design concept is just that, a concept.

AGM-88E-ER is already fully funded until 2020 and the design has already been finalized as early as 2016.

 

[Armand2REP]

AGM-88E-ER is already fully funded until 2020 and the design has already been finalized as early as 2016.

The US operates on an annual budget so nothing is funded further than that, With the government shutdown they can't even get funding for one day. As far as when the design was finalised it wasn't complete as of June 2017 and nothing further shows up.

 

[asianobserve]

The US operates on an annual budget so nothing is funded further than that, With the government shutdown they can't even get funding for one day. As far as when the design was finalised it wasn't complete as of June 2017 and nothing further shows up.

It could mean that the full developmental program cost for AGM-88E-ER has already been paid to Orbital ATK in 2015 and the development project is expected to last until 2020 by which time a production ready model is already finished.

 

[Armand2REP]

It could mean that the full developmental program cost for AGM-88E-ER has already been paid to Orbital ATK in 2015 and the development project is expected to last until 2020 by which time a production ready model is already finished.

The contract wasn't awarded until 2016. How can something scheduled for 2020 already be finished?

 

[gadeshi]

In a real war S-400 will be the highest value targets that the US will go after. It will be jammed, tricked, injected with bug by radio transmission or blown up with stealthy stand-off stealthy cruise missiles. The no.1 problem of S-400 and similar defense systems is that they're more or less stationary so they're very easy targets in a full scale war. Their radars when turned on are also giant electronic announcement of their locations that modern anti-radar missiles will use to target. So, in a full scale war with the US or NATO Russia's S-400 will be the first casualty.

The fear factor of S-400 is only during peace time or limited skirmishes when the US cannot bring to bear its full military might.

That is another one bright BS into collection

American and European heavy AD are stationary, not Russian ones.
S-400 works in 15min battle tic-toc: 5 mins to deploy, 5 mins to aim and fire and 5 mins to pack and change position before rearm.

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[gadeshi]

The US already has already plugged that need with the introduction of AGM-88E. So even if the radar is later on turned off AGM-88E can still target in. By 2020 AGM-88E will have an ER variant that doubles the range of existing AGM-88E and will be certified for use by F-35s.

The layers of SAM defenses in conjunction with S-400 are also radar dependent and thus they too are vulnerable to anti-radiation missiles, hunter killer drones, jamming, spoofing, tricking and stealthy cruise missiles.

That's why offense is the better defense especially with constantly moving, agile and stealthy aerial assets.

AGM-88 has 120km range starting from 5km altitude that makes it useless even against S-300PM, not speaking about S-400

At the top of this S-300 and S-400 both have extensive per-battery self defence suits like Gazetchik-M (radar defence suit) and Pantsyr-S1/2 QR ASAM capable of hitting any guided and unguided munition in flight.

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[gadeshi]

Did you get this info from Russian defence forums? No, AGM-88E-ER is designed to be carried internally in the F-35.

Here's Orbital ATK brochure on this:



And here are mock-up photos of AGM-88E-ER:

Well, amers have just started to develop their own Kh-58M... After 40+ years in service for Soviet one?

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[gadeshi]

Are you sure? US legacy fighters including Super Hornet have more weapons and tricks on its arsenal to counter emerging threats than any other country in and outside NATO.

An illustration of some of the known weapons and systems that could counter S-400 and the likes:



MBDA can also use Spear missile for this kind of work:


Then there are Growlers which will be electronically attacking S-400 sites even before the kenetic weapons arrive.

Once the new Next Generation Jammer comes into service the Growler would even be more formidable in EW. Interestingly, the Next Gen Jammer has the ability to insert virus into computer systems of its targets.

Those Ad videos are rediculous:
They show like more than a squad of F/A-18 tries to attack one S-400 battery (not even a battallion) lacking VVO (alk-altitude target aquisition radar) and passive surviallance/ECM suits support...
This scenario is not possible in real life.

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[asianobserve]

That is another one bright BS into collection

American and European heavy AD are stationary, not Russian ones.
S-400 works in 15min battle tic-toc: 5 mins to deploy, 5 mins to aim and fire and 5 mins to pack and change position before rearm.

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NATO air defense batteries are mainly for BMD. They rely on offensive fighters for air defense.

5 minutes? That's too long! Even during the Vietnam War the North Vietnamese has learned that they only have 30 seconds window to escape American anti-SAM weapons.

 

[gadeshi]

NATO air defense batteries are mainly for BMD. They rely on offensive fighters for air defense.

5 minutes? That's too long! Even during the Vietnam War the North Vietnamese has learned that they only have 30 seconds window to escape American anti-SAM weapons.

It's OK.
Just compare it with ASTER-15/30 with 30 mins for simple deployment and a remarkable piece of shit Patriot with 1.5 hours for simple deployment

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[asianobserve]

Those Ad videos are rediculous:
They show like more than a squad of F/A-18 tries to attack one S-400 battery (not even a battallion) lacking VVO (alk-altitude target aquisition radar) and passive surviallance/ECM suits support...
This scenario is not possible in real life.

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Those are over simplified illustrations of Raytheon's anti anti-access capabilities. of course they will not show in full detail how these weapons do their work! To learn those knitty gritty you need spies...

Anyway, feel free to believe the propaganda that S-400 is a magic wand that will stop American air power on its tracks should there be a real war.

 

[gadeshi]

Those are over simplified illustrations of Raytheon's anti anti-access capabilities. of course they will not show in full detail how these weapons do their work! To learn those knitty gritty you need spies...

Anyway, feel free to believe the propaganda that S-400 is a magic wand that will stop American air power on its tracks should there be a real war.

This is a simple illustration of the fact that Ratheon has no anti-A2AD capabilities and doesn't even really understands what Russian A2AD is

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[asianobserve]

The contract wasn't awarded until 2016. How can something scheduled for 2020 already be finished?

Of course it is not yet finished. But Orbital ATK is due to deliver production-ready weapon by 2020. In other words, AGM-88E-ER is not a matter of "if" but a matter of "when" (2020).

 

[Sancho]

That is another one bright BS into collection

American and European heavy AD are stationary, not Russian ones.
S-400 works in 15min battle tic-toc: 5 mins to deploy, 5 mins to aim and fire and 5 mins to pack and change position before rearm.

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Interesting, bust SEAD has evolved in modern air warfare:

You don't attack the radar alone with ARMs, because that has proven to be ineffective most of the time. When even the radar was turned off, the target lock was lost and the missile didn't hit. That's why PGMs like JSOW or AASM will be used against the radar and the missiles, after the target coordinates were aquired. Sadly AASM was not properly uparaded and further developed, which makes it pretty useless against triple digit SAMs and Rafales weapon of choice might be Scalp. But the EF with the P4E upgrade, might get EA capability combined with SPEAR 3, just as Israelis and US might use SPICE 250 and SDB. All 3 off these missiles can also attack moving targets, via mid course upgrades and in combination with stealth fighters will be even more efficient.

Not to mention that the example in the picture also shows, that you aircrafts to tease SAM radars and aircrafts that fly below detection will be a credible tactic too. The USN will use similar tactics with the F35 / F18 Growler combo.

 

[asianobserve]

Any attack of SAM sites will be preceded by EW, cyber warfare, spoofing, MALDs, drones and non-stealthy cruise missiles to lure SAM rafars to turn on to detect their bubbles. Then once SAM radars are determined SEAD on standby can choose from a host of weapons to use from EW, more drones, cruise missiles, LO standoff missiles, SDBs or good old anti-radar missiles.

BTW, the latest AGM-88E can lock on to SAM radars even after it's turned off. It can even be released without acquiring its target as it has its on board sensors and targettibg systems. And soon AGM-88E will become even deadlier with longer range under ER version (double its current range) and with the ability to be carried inside F-35 weapons bays for even longer penetration capability.

Ultimately, the greatest problem of SAMs is that it's like an old fort, heavily defended but stationary (and like old forts are expensive to build and operate) On the other hand anti-SAM forces are mobile, nimble, have a lots of tricks up their sleaves and thus can always exploit SAM's weaknesses. That's why for air defense NATO, especially US forces, relies on offense via air power. Newer NATO SAMs are increasingly BMD.