Know Your 'Rafale'

Filtercoffee

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You are getting irrational and ranting. 1. F-16 is the most iconic fighter jet in the world. There are over 4000 of these jets in major air forces of the planet. It downed every single Russian fighter jet it ever battled. It is simply crazy to compare Tejas with no records of any kind with F-16.

2. FGFA is a bogus pipe dream. India has to pay billions of dollar just to get a blueprint and another billions for a prototype. Russia has T-50, at least in the propaganda, for a few years. They never let an Indian pilot touch it let alone fly. It is a Russian joke. Comrades in China will get it before IAF deleting any advantage that IAF may have.

3. US Air Force is the best air force in the world. F-16 and F-35 are the main weapons of USAF. There is nothing out there that can be compared with these iconic jets.
1. It was very kind of the Russians' to allow it. The Tejas stats are better at MK - 1. Wondering for the later kept me up for this post.
2. It's seems we are all waiting then.
3. Against well wishers, what did you expect? ofcourse there isn't. And some believe there shouldn't be any.
 
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Filtercoffee

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You are getting irrational and ranting. 1. F-16 is the most iconic fighter jet in the world. There are over 4000 of these jets in major air forces of the planet. It downed every single Russian fighter jet it ever battled. It is simply crazy to compare Tejas with no records of any kind with F-16.

2. FGFA is a bogus pipe dream. India has to pay billions of dollar just to get a blueprint and another billions for a prototype. Russia has T-50, at least in the propaganda, for a few years. They never let an Indian pilot touch it let alone fly. It is a Russian joke. Comrades in China will get it before IAF deleting any advantage that IAF may have.

3. US Air Force is the best air force in the world. F-16 and F-35 are the main weapons of USAF. There is nothing out there that can be compared with these iconic jets.
Just in case... A comparison of the YF - 16 or F - 16 A/B with the LCA done by Mr. Vivek Ahuja.
http://thebetacoefficient.blogspot.in/2015/04/lca-tejas-versus-f-16-in-combat-part-i.html?m=1
Also ISRO launches are cheaper. :india2:- peaking humility by the way.
 
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smestarz

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It is funny, your observations are observations and others observations are rants,, wow, that seems to be the effect of trying to prove that you are an american patriot?

1. F-16 is an iconic jet but like you said its plane of past even the Americans are dumping F-16 for F-35
And you want India to buy a plane which as per the Americans is outdated?
On other hand, Tejas is our own plane, designed as per our requirement, If to choose between your iconic F-16 or F-35 or Tejas, Most will still choose Tejas.

2. You dont know what FGFA is? FGFA is PAKFA MKI in short. We like PAKFA. and its just minor discussions are going on. IAF wants to try the plane, and the Russians are telling in nice words that the plane with Item 30 engine is not there yet and so you cannot test it. Even without testing, the IAF has given a list of problems with the plane !!! thats our IAF.

3. F-16 is old and getting older, F-35 for USAF is the future, Actually to be thinking about it, when Roman empire was at its peak, there would be some joker like you saying "Rome is at the peak and we are the best" and then the Huns came in and screwed the Romans all around., America is at similar cross roads, and your "huns" are already at your gates. BTW the American economy is no longer strong as it was when F-16 was being developed and produced. So we shall wait for the American economy to just implode..

BTW. IAF does not want F-35, so try not to sell your adopted countries warez.. thanks


You are getting irrational and ranting. 1. F-16 is the most iconic fighter jet in the world. There are over 4000 of these jets in major air forces of the planet. It downed every single Russian fighter jet it ever battled. It is simply crazy to compare Tejas with no records of any kind with F-16.

2. FGFA is a bogus pipe dream. India has to pay billions of dollar just to get a blueprint and another billions for a prototype. Russia has T-50, at least in the propaganda, for a few years. They never let an Indian pilot touch it let alone fly. It is a Russian joke. Comrades in China will get it before IAF deleting any advantage that IAF may have.

3. US Air Force is the best air force in the world. F-16 and F-35 are the main weapons of USAF. There is nothing out there that can be compared with these iconic jets.
 

SajeevJino

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True that as technology becomes better say a fixed number of planes can be effective occupying a bigger space
or, for a big space, a far lesser nos of plane can be effective.
In future the game would be more of Stealth and detecting the stealth. If Stealth is detected then there would be BVR, but if the Stealth is not detected, only visually is possible then we get into WW1 and WW2 type of Dog fights. And even then the missiles may not be effective, maybe we will end up having guided A2A missiles (like Maverick are for A2G) where the WSO will have the task of chasing the target and to take it down.
Ultimately if the avionics may not be able to detect each other that would also be true that the missiles may not be able to track and then in such situation, maybe we have to rely on our eyes or TV guided versions.
This scenario will happen if Half of America fight against other half of America, well these so called VLO and Active cancellation tech's are available on the Hands of US and West or simply on the NATO hands

NATO won't going to out tech by others, be it Russians or Chinese. Well this going to change in a decade again NATO brings some new tech to overmatch the enemy

The weight class argument is stupid for a reason, If tomorrow we have an Su-30 MKI flying over pakistan. The options with PAF will be either to keep quiet and know they are outclassed and ignore it and which in a way will have morale boost to india as surgical strike,. or to send the "smaller" F-16 and JF-17 to try and shoot the Su-30 MKI. I am sure I would not hear the PAF saying ".. oh its Su-30 MKI, its heavy plane, Sorry IAF we dont have a heavy plane to go against you, why not send a medium weight class, so that we can send a medium weight to confront it.
Well due to its Radar power and Range, MKI can scan the area beyond the F 16 and JF 17 range, The MKI pilot won't worry about he caught by enemy buy its RWR, The MKI pilot detect the enemy first and fire his long Range BVR at maximum range,

What will the enemy JF 17 and F 16 do, they try for evasive maneuvers, and yet its all about luck and enemy pilots skill, either he save his ass and million $ plane or rest in pieces .

In case of China the whole concept become opposite, we have to face the real air war, MKI vs Chinese Su 30 clone, Here skills and knowledge only saves.. The Chinese almost equal or bit higher than our tech

Again if we send our LCA or any other Light aircraft to intercept Chinese flankers, the above said paki scenario will appear

when we face the PLAAF, we should send our MKI or Rafale

Another recent example is that one Russian Su-24 was which is heavy strike craft, and it was not a dog fight.It is never about weight, but the role and the weapons the plane is armed with. For example, if the Su-30 has only left with Short range missiles, then even JF-17 armed with longer range missiles will be at advantage and in this situation, Su-30 might want to dogfight to be able to use its short range missiles, but the JF-17 would have advantage in terms of longer range missiles. in this situation either the Su-30 MKI has to either try to leave the point at top speed or try to get closer to get the advantage of missiles.
Yep, agreed...well again if the JF 17 want to fire his BVR it must get the MKI on its Radar range, by the meantime if MKI found caught by enemy radar, he might escape if he has no BVR.


MiG-21 uses Tumansky engines and those are no longer produced.
Further Mig-21 was built for speed and not really to be manueverable, Tejas has a lot of advantages over MiG-21. and also on Mirage 2000, thus I would prefer Tejas over both these planes.
well I don't want to fight again, Please don't compare the Tejas with Mirage, keep it with MIG 21 only

IAF top brass will ultimately have a leader who will have vision and see the benefit of using one platform for different roles. Thus Jaguar role might be distributed between say FGFA and Su-30 MKI.
Jaguars advantage of flying low was in era when Radar became all too powerful and the A2G missiles were not reliable and had short range, But with Missiles having 300 Kms Stand off range, Why not just fly HI and strike from Hi, I mean flying from india to general direction of pakistan will not give PAF the idea of the intended target,
Those Jags are primarily designed for ground strike by the Europeans, even they don't have radar, they use passive guidance for attack and survival, they fly low to evade the Soviet SAM's in Iraq, Hence they proved its effect

well these Jaguars now going to receive AESA Radar and already got modern ASRAAM, Its less chance to use Jags against PLA, But for against Pakistan its a low cost high performance killer machine.

damn they were armed with Harpoons, CBU 105, and the latest Garudama , Garuthma Glide bombs


So In my view AMCA will be the one to replace Mirage 2000, Jaguars and even MiG-29.
FGFA will compliment Su-30 MKI and replace the older Su-30 MK and only this way, we can ensure that we use Su-30 MKI with optimum life.
Likely,

Well I think all our older Sukhoi are upgraded into MKI Standard only,

scrap FGFA and make AMCA as stealth dual engine Mirage, not a stealth Jagaur type
 

SajeevJino

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The Russians have nothing to worry from the Americans or the Israeli and the S-400 systems which are there are mainly Russian. The Russians want to keep the modes etc confidential as much as possible., They do not want to expose the secrets for nothing. The Americans and others know it. The shooting down of Su-22 was also to add to Syrian frustration. The Russians expect that after the defeat of ISIS the coalition to dictate to Assad, and if the S-400 systems modes are exposed then the Americans and French will try to might try to find ways to jam. :Losing a Syrian plane is not worth the cost. Most secrets of the American and French planes are already known during the campaign so at present it is Advantage Russia in terms of having knowledge about its opponents and protecting its own secrets.
You think Americans yet to found a way to spoof the S 400, years ago a presentation by Lockheed was uploaded in Youtube show how to kill a S 400 battery.

They used large number of EA 18, MALD to jam and confuse the S 400 long range radar, at the end use multiple low flying subsonic long range cruise missile from Bombers from standoff range to get rid those S 400

No idea how it will work on real time
 

SajeevJino

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I agree with most of the statements you made. But there is one problem. That is your statements are based on assumptions and could very well be pipe dreams. US spent hundreds of billions of dollars to produce F-35 and continues to do so. How India or Russia will be able to match that. Realistically a deploy-able Indian Tejas is at least 20 years and 100 billion $ behind and Russian T-50 is ten years and 100 billion dollars behind F-35. Neither Russia nor India has the funds to do it. Saying that, I still believe it will be worthwhile to develop Tejas and MK2 because it will pay dividends in the future. Why give Russia billions of dollars to develop FGFA when they don't let you fighter pilots touch their T-50?

Russia and China will never get their hands on or even see an F-35; but India can get it very easily. All I am saying is that India should exploit the rare opportunity without injecting politics in it. India has brilliant fighter pilots, why not give them the weapons (F-16 and F-35) they need to stand up to the enemy without getting shot out of the sky? These will guarantee that Indian fighter pilots will be able to stand up to anything Chinese air force can launch.
well agreed completely, Its a wise option to Buy F 35 from US than giving billions to Russia for making FGFA, same goes to S 400

Well even though I'm not in the game of buying F 16 or Gripen, those will not suit our doctrine, we have enough planes and tech to face Pakistan, But for China we need advanced planes and better one, Not F 16 and Gripen
 

SajeevJino

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Making a good plane is not always proportional to the money spent. America has 100 years of Aeronautical experience behind them and clearly 2 decades of 5th gen plane. Russia has few decades less experience than America, but the Russians always made planes that make the American wet their pants., Remember how the MiG surprised the American Sabre jets? the Americans never thought that Russians could make a jet.
Also how much you spend does not ensure victory (please refer to Vietnam, Somalia, Afghanistan and Iraq)
To just compare apples as Apples. India is gaining experience with its infantile aeronautical industry, but yet they made a Jet which in a way is better and cheaper than F-16 .. Remember both are having the same roles.

Now. America needs an F-35.. India prefers PAKFA / Su-30 MKI to dominate and thus 4th Gen planes like Tejas can then carry their missions as required.. Americans did not think of this? We are interested in the ACTUAL PLANE WITH THE ACTUAL ENGINE. We know how the plane flies, We want to know how the final PAKFA would fly with Item 30 engine. So we might as well wait for it , no?

I think most of our requirement is fulfilled, the only thing pending is 57 planes for Navy and AMCA in 2035..
as we almost in a same point, yet we have to see how the modern doctrines are changed. I mean the SAM systems

Modern SAM provide cover to Homeland,. not only but beyond Borders, PAC 3, MEADS, S 400, Aster are some examples, the provide cover some 100 km beyond borders, Its always better to cover your homeland by cheap and most reliable technologies, Use some Aerostats and AEW planes for fool proof aerial surveillance.

If we want to do some more here comes the Stealth planes and stand off missiles, Countries borders are very close, hence Fighter jets too.

why not we can deploy more Barak 8 NG working with few aero stats and AEW, rather than buying the FGFA in such big numbers, I do agree that Fighter jet can't replace SAM's. But we can buy few some 60 PAK FA and use balance fund on SAM systems
 

SajeevJino

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You are getting irrational and ranting. 1. F-16 is the most iconic fighter jet in the world. There are over 4000 of these jets in major air forces of the planet. It downed every single Russian fighter jet it ever battled. It is simply crazy to compare Tejas with no records of any kind with F-16.
Tejas is now what look like F 16 during its first development, err yet it performs shit

2. FGFA is a bogus pipe dream. India has to pay billions of dollar just to get a blueprint and another billions for a prototype. Russia has T-50, at least in the propaganda, for a few years. They never let an Indian pilot touch it let alone fly. It is a Russian joke. Comrades in China will get it before IAF deleting any advantage that IAF may have.
agreed

3. US Air Force is the best air force in the world. F-16 and F-35 are the main weapons of USAF. There is nothing out there that can be compared with these iconic jets.
The F 16's are iconic on older days, since they use modern tech against the enemy like Syria, Egypt and Iraq, now its all changed,

F 16 now doing US Homeland security and Baltic CAP Missions and bombing on Syria even in safe air space

For all aggressive, combat and overseas deployment, US prefers F 15 and F 18 only, no more F 16 by US these days
 

SajeevJino

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It is funny, your observations are observations and others observations are rants,, wow, that seems to be the effect of trying to prove that you are an american patriot?

1. F-16 is an iconic jet but like you said its plane of past even the Americans are dumping F-16 for F-35
And you want India to buy a plane which as per the Americans is outdated?
On other hand, Tejas is our own plane, designed as per our requirement, If to choose between your iconic F-16 or F-35 or Tejas, Most will still choose Tejas.
huh what, choosing F 16/Tejas/F 35 ....even a blind will choose F35

as I've to repeat again F 16 and Gripen is not suits our needs, Its the Politicians who put their interest on this and forcing the IAF to adopt them,

One small history, IAF keen to buy more Mirage 2000 in the earlier, Yet Politicians given Natasha's MiG 29,

same now, IAF sounds openly for more Rafale's, Politicians working on more F 16/ Gripen

2. You dont know what FGFA is? FGFA is PAKFA MKI in short. We like PAKFA. and its just minor discussions are going on. IAF wants to try the plane, and the Russians are telling in nice words that the plane with Item 30 engine is not there yet and so you cannot test it. Even without testing, the IAF has given a list of problems with the plane !!! thats our IAF.
Since Russia running multiple propaganda news service, Its hard to filter the truth, Yet as per early analyst PAKFA seems not good as what it appears in presentation.

Yes IAF given problems list, as they analysis the flight data's, we are all here not pilots yet we do make some nice points

3. F-16 is old and getting older, F-35 for USAF is the future, Actually to be thinking about it, when Roman empire was at its peak, there would be some joker like you saying "Rome is at the peak and we are the best" and then the Huns came in and screwed the Romans all around., America is at similar cross roads, and your "huns" are already at your gates. BTW the American economy is no longer strong as it was when F-16 was being developed and produced. So we shall wait for the American economy to just implode..

Lol, they are still the superpower, If they are in peril, Arabs and some other will comes with Billions dollars of shopping

BTW. IAF does not want F-35, so try not to sell your adopted countries warez.. thanks
IAF didn't said anything about F 35, but that does not make IAF don't want it
 

Pulkit

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Typical Modi fan, i too once think like that, But not now, The government is Hype
Then Again its ones view point. I still have faith in them
Can you say numbers, as of now only 40 allowed for production, once the 2nd line opens further 83 orders get CCS nod.. and thats all for Tejas
Yeah even I am worried yet but I believe they will and what i wrote was i want them to and believe they will. I never said they are. Read the entire chain of comments not just a statement
damn shit ..Is FGFA ready ..I was struck on my job ..thats why I didn't able to follow up FGFA ...can you say when the contracts was finalized, and are we in prototype design stage or production stage
Oh my Bad PakFa is ready not FGFA but this does mean that FGFA can be made avaiable beface AMCA.
errrrrrr
dumb Fanboys .....why you peoples not even use your commonsense
As they say common sense is not so common . I believe same is the case with you as well.Instead of just going bla bla bla please share your logic.
 

StealthFlanker

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Just in case... A comparison of the YF - 16 or F - 16 A/B with the LCA done by Mr. Vivek Ahuja.
http://thebetacoefficient.blogspot.in/2015/04/lca-tejas-versus-f-16-in-combat-part-i.html?m=1
Why would he compare sustained turn rate at empty weight and without afterburner? what kind of dogfight is fought at Mil thrust?


He also managed to get the value so badly wrong. According to his graph, sustained turn rate of an F-16 in Mil will peak at around Mach 0.35 while in reality, it will peak at Mach 0.6, a massive difference.
According to his chart, then at Mach 0.6, dry thrust the F-16C will sustain around 7°/second while manual data shows that it can sustain around 16°/second at that speed, not only that he is wrong, he is wrong by a factor of more than 2?
His G pulled value is wrong too, from manual you can clearly see that at sea level, Mach 0.8 the F-16C in Mil can sustain somewhere like 7.5G while the chart in that blog shows the aircraft sustain less than 4G ?
 
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smestarz

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No. it will be situation when NATO forces against Russians say few decades later. But if you talk of the next decade, we shall probably be talking how the plane with much potential F-35 came short against PAKFA, Going by what detail is available as of now. PAKFA vs F-35, its clearly F-35 which will end up losing in air to air battle, F-22 and PAKFA would be close affair with maybe the spoils going to PAKFA simply because it uses newer tech that is available now instead of the cutting edge tech that was available almost 2 decades ago.
NATO is a spent force with cracks already in it, NATO within few years will be mostly European countries minus USA.America does not want to spend its money to keep its troops in Europe, they want the Europeans to pay for it else to muster its own troops, which is understandable, but NATO was formed so that the Americans can hit the russians without being effected directly and Europe being a buffer zone.
Technologically, F-22 the first 5th gen plane, the other western 5th gen plane is F-35 and the NATO countries except UK are just buyers. Further, the use of F-35 will be controlled entirely by the Americans, if they dont want, the plane cannot even take off. So if you buy this plane, its good and you have to cede to every American demand, just in case they kill the switch.

This scenario will happen if Half of America fight against other half of America, well these so called VLO and Active cancellation tech's are available on the Hands of US and West or simply on the NATO hands

NATO won't going to out tech by others, be it Russians or Chinese. Well this going to change in a decade again NATO brings some new tech to overmatch the enemy


The scenario that you seem to be assuming is that Pakistan is entirely incompetent. There would be long range ground Radars tracking it, And there would be F-16 and JF-17 scrambled to intercept, Also maybe you do not seem to understand that PAF also has Eyerie. Maybe your assumptiion is that the moment Su-30 MKI takes in PAF territory they would simply ground all planes? By the way, It seems you assume far too much. So any plane that comes within PAF area will be tracked by multiple radars and the planes would be sent from different bases to try and intercept it, So the only advantage here that Su-30 MKI would have better detecion range and better speed, but when planes are coming from different directions, these advantages become smaller. Then both set of planes, end up being in range in which the Su-30 MKI radar advantage stops being an advantage.
It is not like you say my friend, when Chinese plane is detected over India, the squadron closest will be sent to intercept, you would be very stupid to suggest that only MKI or Rafale be sent to intercept it. You expect the chinese planes to wait for lunch also?


Well due to its Radar power and Range, MKI can scan the area beyond the F 16 and JF 17 range, The MKI pilot won't worry about he caught by enemy buy its RWR, The MKI pilot detect the enemy first and fire his long Range BVR at maximum range,
What will the enemy JF 17 and F 16 do, they try for evasive maneuvers, and yet its all about luck and enemy pilots skill, either he save his ass and million $ plane or rest in pieces .
In case of China the whole concept become opposite, we have to face the real air war, MKI vs Chinese Su 30 clone, Here skills and knowledge only saves.. The Chinese almost equal or bit higher than our tech
Again if we send our LCA or any other Light aircraft to intercept Chinese flankers, the above said paki scenario will appear
when we face the PLAAF, we should send our MKI or Rafale

Yep, agreed...well again if the JF 17 want to fire his BVR it must get the MKI on its Radar range, by the meantime if MKI found caught by enemy radar, he might escape if he has no BVR.


Hilarious reply, You really should take your head out, its far too deep that you dont even know whats going on around, let me break it up for you
Tejas was developed to replace the aging MiG-21 interceptor/fighter, but then IAF was bitten by Multi role bug, Anyway, Tejas was already being developed like an MRCA be able to conduct interception, strikes etc. Now few of the test pilots who are testing Tejas are experienced pilots who have used Mirage 2000 as well and thos Test pilots inform that Tejas is far superior even Mirage 2000. You are right, Tejas cannot be compared to French junk called Mirage 2000.
well I don't want to fight again, Please don't compare the Tejas with Mirage, keep it with MIG 21 only

Jaguar was developed when the concept was prevalent and the belief was there that air forces need specialised plane for different roles. Thus USAF had F-86, F-104 as fighters and F-105 was a strike plane. F-14 was mainly a fighter, and needed A-7 Crusader as Attack craft. Jaguar was developed when missiles were not that accurate or efficient. So to ensure that the target is destroyed, the plane has to fly close to the target and bomb it (to increase the chance of success) and for a plane to evade various radar systems, it was important for a plane to fly below these radars and evade them. When a plane is flying low, the glide bomb technically has no use. Glide bombs are useful when used from high flying planes to increase the range, if you drop a glide bomb from say 200 ft from ground, dont expect it to travel 10 kms.
Now with advent of better missiles A2G as well as SAMs, planes like Jaguar will find it very difficult to fly very low without risking being shot down.Or maybe you discounted MANPADS.

Those Jags are primarily designed for ground strike by the Europeans, even they don't have radar, they use passive guidance for attack and survival, they fly low to evade the Soviet SAM's in Iraq, Hence they proved its effect
well these Jaguars now going to receive AESA Radar and already got modern ASRAAM, Its less chance to use Jags against PLA, But for against Pakistan its a low cost high performance killer machine.
damn they were armed with Harpoons, CBU 105, and the latest Garudama , Garuthma Glide bombs


FGFA is the need of the hour, AMCA is not going to be ready for the next 15 years and this is just prototype, And our neighbourhood already have 5th gen planes being developed and in LRIP. Only stupid people can have the benefit to assume that the enemy is incompetent. Fortunately, there are few like you. Older Sukhoi were Su-30 MK which were already upgraded to Su-30 MKI and then these planes would be upgraded to Super MKI, which would give them AESA and other modern avionics which are the need of the hour. And which makes it more capable than Rafale in most aspects.

So, India would have to go for PAKFA/FGFA to ensure its position in subcontinent and to deter China or Pakistan taking us for Granted, and AMCA would be developed during this time.

Likely,

Well I think all our older Sukhoi are upgraded into MKI Standard only,

scrap FGFA and make AMCA as stealth dual engine Mirage, not a stealth Jagaur type
 

smestarz

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Again a hilarious reply. I mean you have to look at one S-400 battery and that too just sitting idly?
SAM defences these days are complex and never like solitary S-400 sitting and its officers playing cards.
Honestly, do you look at what yoiu posted? " ...large number of EA 18, MALD to jam and confuse the S 400 long range radar, at the end use multiple low flying subsonic long range cruise missile from Bombers from standoff range to get rid those S 400 .." and if Lockheed has put this way then ther are few things and notable among them are that Lockheed has no clue how to take down the plane. Imagine Lockheed presentation that involves Boeing plane (EA-18) ?????
If its just a presentation then there ar many on youtube. I cam make one showing Su-30 MKI carrying 3 Brahmos NG taking down 3 Chinese ships including their carrier in one sortie. Its a presentation..
ITs not that Lockheed has never been wrong, Germans surely do know a lot about F-104G which was dubbed Widowmaker because of the crashes it caused and we are talking of a plane which was new and top of the line and not "Well past its service life" MiG-21.

Theorotically when you can fire 1000 missiles even at say USS Ford the newest US Navy carrier, it is sure to sink, what have the genius at Lockheed told differently? Maybe they should have thought of simply sending Delta force guys to take the S-400 down..

Coming back to your topic, Systems like S-400 are like Carrier equivalent on land, and they are ringed by other Tactical and MANPADS . This way S-400 takes down targets and its complimented by the smaller systems that are protected by S-400 range of operation.


You think Americans yet to found a way to spoof the S 400, years ago a presentation by Lockheed was uploaded in Youtube show how to kill a S 400 battery.

They used large number of EA 18, MALD to jam and confuse the S 400 long range radar, at the end use multiple low flying subsonic long range cruise missile from Bombers from standoff range to get rid those S 400

No idea how it will work on real time
 

smestarz

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We have an Indian trying to prove he is American and another indian idiot agreeing to something, Bhagwan tumhari jyodi salamat rakhe
F-35 is short range plane and really not for India. It is good for small countries like Israel who can always modify it as per their use, and which have a tremendous lobbying power in American senate.
With PAKFA/FGFA we can learn a lot specially about technology and this knowledge has to be used in building AMCA. Buying F-35 does not give any advantage except being an American puppy.
India is a country with nice weather and Rains, Imagine depending on plane like F-35 which cannot be used in wet weather,, can we really use it in Assam where it rains all through the year?
Or in western sector where it cannot be used from June to October.. I mean the availability rate after this huge lay off should be wonderful. Unfortunately we need a plane that can be used 24 X 7 X 365 and thats whats missing from F-35, it is fancy yes, but it cannot fight. F-35 would be like a team of football players who would not take to ground when it rains and prefers to forefeit the match !!!


well agreed completely, Its a wise option to Buy F 35 from US than giving billions to Russia for making FGFA, same goes to S 400

Well even though I'm not in the game of buying F 16 or Gripen, those will not suit our doctrine, we have enough planes and tech to face Pakistan, But for China we need advanced planes and better one, Not F 16 and Gripen
 

smestarz

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Truely, only a blind man like you would choose F-35 not knowing all things, Already many of the partners ar having reservations including Canada.
So what does Canada know?

And to be further honest, F-16, Gripen NOR F-35 suit our needs, one of the big advantage of MiG-29 is that it can fly even when it rains,
F-35 during that time is grounded !!!

IAF top brass have no vision at all, else all these years they were using Su-30 MKI and MiG-29 as Air superiority planes and suddenly they realise that " .. oh there are targeting pods and if we put them we can use them as Strike planes too... " Already many of Su-30 MKI and MiG-29 got LITENING pods for the vary same reason.

IAF does not say anything about it simply because its not their need or do not see it fit for service, its best to be used by "developed" countries, its not for us.
India has many times categorically told the USA (when it suggested F-35) that India is not interested in it, Do read please.

The Arabs want to secure the middle east from Iran and are on shopping spree, true Arabs will come with billions of dollars, but the day they stop, what then?
Bankrupt???


huh what, choosing F 16/Tejas/F 35 ....even a blind will choose F35

as I've to repeat again F 16 and Gripen is not suits our needs, Its the Politicians who put their interest on this and forcing the IAF to adopt them,

One small history, IAF keen to buy more Mirage 2000 in the earlier, Yet Politicians given Natasha's MiG 29,

same now, IAF sounds openly for more Rafale's, Politicians working on more F 16/ Gripen



Since Russia running multiple propaganda news service, Its hard to filter the truth, Yet as per early analyst PAKFA seems not good as what it appears in presentation.

Yes IAF given problems list, as they analysis the flight data's, we are all here not pilots yet we do make some nice points




Lol, they are still the superpower, If they are in peril, Arabs and some other will comes with Billions dollars of shopping



IAF didn't said anything about F 35, but that does not make IAF don't want it
 

smestarz

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This is Rafale thread, and this discussion should not be here, but replying to you
https://www.aviaport.ru/digest/2017/06/19/456029.html


Russian-Indian fifth-generation fighter FGFA (Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft) will not concede developed for aerospace Forces PAK FA, he told journalists on Monday the head of the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation (FSMTC) Dmitry Shugaev.

"India, along with Russia will receive not only the know-how, but also the right of ownership on the prepared HRP (military products - approx Tass.) That is, this fighter, if we have signed a contract and will be fulfilled intergovernmental agreement thus -. And we, of course, to this we go, will not yield to our PAK FA ", - said Shugaev at the air show in Le Bourget.

"Another thing is that the on-board equipment will be including Indian-made. It is an aircraft that will be adapted, including for the Indian market. That is not the deterioration of the characteristics that are inherent in national product, which is used in the Armed Forces, adaptation to the conditions of the customer , "- said the head of department.

He stressed that no other country is not ready to hand over India, "such sensitive technology."

Agreement on FGFA project was signed in 2007. In early May, a source in the Indian Defense Ministry told Indian news agency PTI, that the contract for the detailed design of the new fighter will be signed in the second half of 2017. In the spring, Russian officials said that Russia fully complies with its obligations under the project and expects the decision of the Indian side.



well agreed completely, Its a wise option to Buy F 35 from US than giving billions to Russia for making FGFA, same goes to S 400

Well even though I'm not in the game of buying F 16 or Gripen, those will not suit our doctrine, we have enough planes and tech to face Pakistan, But for China we need advanced planes and better one, Not F 16 and Gripen
 

StealthFlanker

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Going by what detail is available as of now. PAKFA vs F-35, its clearly F-35 which will end up losing in air to airbattle
I wouldn't be so sure, the two aircraft have rather different design philosophy, each has their pros and cons and there are much more important factors in combat than speed or turn rate.

Imagine depending on plane like F-35 which cannot be used in wet weather,, can we really use it in Assam where it rains all through the year?
That not quite true though
http://www.standard.net/Military/20...ning-should-now-have-no-problems-in-lightning
 

Sam Biswas

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Tejas is now what look like F 16 during its first development, err yet it performs shit

India can get either F-16 or F-18. But Lockheed is eager to give F-16 manufacturing to India. It will be easier for India to get a great deal as well as all the modifications it would like making it F-16-MKI. India needs a very high performing but cheap fighter jet for defense in all fronts. Until Tejas MK2 is under production India is lagging in that. For the next 10-20 years India and IAF need F-16. While F-16mki will be great defensive fighter, F-35 will be the best offensive fighter jet for India against China in particular.

US is very willing to arm India and it is not for financial reason like Russia and France. It is a strategic reason for US. India needs to quickly move in and seal the agreements. There is a window of opportunity right now. India should not waste it. These deals with US have no conflict with India's other strategic missions like Tejas, AMCA and even FGFA because all of these are 10-20 years away, whereas, F-16 and F-35 are here now.
 

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