Know Your 'Rafale'

[TPFscopes]

France is in talks to transfer upto 30 Jaguars to IAF

France is currently in negotiations with the Indian Air Force for the sale of about 30 Jaguar that belonged to the French Air Force before their withdrawal in July 2005.

These airframes will not be used for active service but for spare parts which will be used for fully operationalizing the upgraded fleet of Jaguar IM/IS and Jaguar IB and to maintain sufficient spares in the inventory.

Currently, IAF has a fleet of 130 Jaguars for operational missions and 30 Jaguar IB trainers. Approximately 60 of these Jaguars will be modified to DARIN III standards, the rest remaining at DARIN II standard until they're retired.

 

[smestarz]

Like I said Each generation has defintions of generation.
Unfortunately Rafale does not qualify as 5th Gen, PAKFA is designed and will be 5th Gen plane,
All the french can do is cry about it in secret and yet peddle Rafale as quasi 5th Gen plane.
Just having saw tooth design on edges does not make 5th Gen plane, its the shaping.. If its only about saw tooth designing, each 4th gen plane can be a 5th Gen, Its not that simple

There is only one 5th gen plane in the world so far (according to the LM propaganda) : F22.

All the others are failing or not on duty.

 

[smestarz]

If Eric Trappier keeps his hole below his nose closed then it might do everyone a favour.,
From "... we are discussing with india for additional planes ... " to "oh we have entered their carrier based plane competition ... " its like one end of spectrum to another. Does that guy suffer from Dissociative Identity Disorder? Seems to be.

More Rafales.. lol, India wont be making the same mistake Twice.. did cajole IAF and gave them 36 and now they want 250 lol, I think the govt had enough of IAF crying. You can see what happens within the next few year.. should be an eyeopener

You were forced to close the hole below your nose when India ordered 36 first Rafale.

So we gained some months of tranquility.

Now I hope India to clinch another deal to shut your mouth definitively.

With no offense.

 

[Armand2REP]

Like I said Each generation has defintions of generation.
Unfortunately Rafale does not qualify as 5th Gen, PAKFA is designed and will be 5th Gen plane,
All the french can do is cry about it in secret and yet peddle Rafale as quasi 5th Gen plane.
Just having saw tooth design on edges does not make 5th Gen plane, its the shaping.. If its only about saw tooth designing, each 4th gen plane can be a 5th Gen, Its not that simple

Rafale meets more of the 40 parameters than PAK FA which falls short.

 

[Filtercoffee]

Rafale meets more of the 40 parameters than PAK FA which falls short.

Evening after knowing about testing you are still insisting a show down between a 5th gen aircraft which is classified to one which is sold world over as a 4 +.

 

[Armand2REP]

Evening after knowing about testing you are still insisting a show down between a 5th gen aircraft which is classified to one which is sold world over as a 4 +.

Rafale is a combat proven 4.5 gen airframe with 5th gen avionics. PAK FA is just an Su-35 with tapered edges and internal bay until they prove otherwise.

 

[Bahamut]

Rafale meets more of the 40 parameters than PAK FA which falls short.

Which parameter are you talking about and can we have a link to ur source

 

[Filtercoffee]

Rafale is a combat proven 4.5 gen airframe with 5th gen avionics. PAK FA is just an Su-35 with tapered edges and internal bay until they prove otherwise.

Rafale is a combat proven 4.5 gen airframe with 5th gen avionics. PAK FA is just an Su-35 with tapered edges and internal bay until they prove otherwise.

PAK FA is in testing, how can you test a F 15 as a F 22? Without an adversary for combat its hardly proven anything.

 

[BON PLAN]

Like I said Each generation has defintions of generation.
Unfortunately Rafale does not qualify as 5th Gen, PAKFA is designed and will be 5th Gen plane,
All the french can do is cry about it in secret and yet peddle Rafale as quasi 5th Gen plane.
Just having saw tooth design on edges does not make 5th Gen plane, its the shaping.. If its only about saw tooth designing, each 4th gen plane can be a 5th Gen, Its not that simple

"5th gen" is a marketing definition made by LM.
F22 is 100% "5th gen"
F35 not. Lack of supercruising capacity, lack of super agility, sensor fusion not proven so far. so 40% "5th gen" ?

 

[BON PLAN]

You can see what happens within the next few year.. should be an eyeopener

In the next few years, india will add at least 36 more Rafale in IAF. my opinion is 90 to 108 at the end.
We'll see for IN....

 

[smestarz]

5th Gen is a marketing term, what is Omni role? it is a marketing term peddled by Dassault, its just another term for Multi role, So if French do it, then its smart, when others do it, they are liars?
But anyway, 5th Gen term is catching on with Chinese having 2 planes, Japan having one design, Korea 1, India 1-2 depending how you see it, Russia 1, USA 2, France 0
But lack of being 5th gen does not deter Dassault which now is in a way using the 5th Gen saying "our plane has 5th gen tech " so why use "5th Gen" at all .. simply because not many countries are stupid to buy 4th Gen planes when 5th Gen planes are available, India got caught in the trap thanks to IAF, but guess now things change.

F-35 is a 5th Gen plane, it has engine designed for it, It lacks super agility, but will make up with stealth. and after all if it sees Rafale from a distant and Rafale cannot, it can take down Rafale every time.

"5th gen" is a marketing definition made by LM.
F22 is 100% "5th gen"
F35 not. Lack of supercruising capacity, lack of super agility, sensor fusion not proven so far. so 40% "5th gen" ?

 

[smestarz]

The RFI has just come in, Still a lot many years.

In the next few years, india will add at least 36 more Rafale in IAF. my opinion is 90 to 108 at the end.
We'll see for IN....

 

[smestarz]

See the French using term " 5th Gen " lol
You are just pathetic, if somene uses them then they are liars, but you do to sell your junk

"5th gen" is a marketing definition made by LM.
F22 is 100% "5th gen"
F35 not. Lack of supercruising capacity, lack of super agility, sensor fusion not proven so far. so 40% "5th gen" ?

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/know-your-rafale.32861/page-277#post-1308050

 

[smestarz]

Bombing places that does not have credible Air defence etc does not term as Combat proven.,
By that definition LCA is combat proven too, it has hit many targets during practice and testing,
Rafale is a 4the gen plane with 4.5 gen avionics at the most, Rather its twin engine version of Mirage 2000 which was upgrade of Mirage III.. So in a way that would make Rafale a twin engined upgrade of Mirage III. By the way Su-30 MKI did hump Rafale in Rajasthan,, royally, and Su-35 is a much upgraded version of Sukhoi flanker family. Wonder what PAKFA will do to Rafale ? thought of it? just give you a hint??

Rafale is a combat proven 4.5 gen airframe with 5th gen avionics. PAK FA is just an Su-35 with tapered edges and internal bay until they prove otherwise.

 

[smestarz]

Please do highlight the 40 parameters if you can? Perhaps like Rafale is more visbile on Radar and hence if it Crashes, we can know where it went down.. something like that?
Really interested to note these 40 parameters.

Rafale meets more of the 40 parameters than PAK FA which falls short.

 

[Filtercoffee]

"5th gen" is a marketing definition made by LM.
F22 is 100% "5th gen"
F35 not. Lack of supercruising capacity, lack of super agility, sensor fusion not proven so far. so 40% "5th gen" ?

Please dont mind my directness but have you personally flown any of the aircraft mentioned? I hope what ever knowledge you have is based on practical out puts and outings in one of these. Rafale is not 5th gen or even a 5th gen stealth barring some off the shelf american 2nd rate AESA, changed for yours truly. Some things remain classified I am sure.

 

[Sunstersun]

The two biggest characteristics of a fifth generation fighter are stealth and situational awareness(advanced sensors and networking).

why are these two the most important? because a new gen plane doesn't mean just improving on the older planes, it means fundamentally changing the concepts of battle.

supercruise and superagility are all things that would be important for dog fighting, not modern air combat. This is where fifth generation characteristics come in.

Kill chain

• Detect a target.
• Acquire/identify/track the target.
• Communicate targeting information to the launch platform.
• Launch the weapon.

Fifth generation planes greatly change the first 3 aspects of a kill chain which is why they are a separate generation. Dog fights are all about maneuverability, modern combat is about the kill chain.

 

[Filtercoffee]

The two biggest characteristics of a fifth generation fighter are stealth and situational awareness(advanced sensors and networking).

why are these two the most important? because a new gen plane doesn't mean just improving on the older planes, it means fundamentally changing the concepts of battle.

supercruise and superagility are all things that would be important for dog fighting, not modern air combat. This is where fifth generation characteristics come in.

Kill chain

• Detect a target.
• Acquire/identify/track the target.
• Communicate targeting information to the launch platform.
• Launch the weapon.

Fifth generation planes greatly change the first 3 aspects of a kill chain which is why they are a separate generation. Dog fights are all about maneuverability, modern combat is about the kill chain.

But these are released now to general public sir! Most of this is very ancient in terms of classified.

 

[BON PLAN]

what is Omni role? it is a marketing term peddled by Dassault, its just another term for Multi role

Rafale was the first one able during the same mission to shoot ennemy fighters and to deliver AtoG missiles or bombs. At the same time. OMNIROLE just means that.

 

[BON PLAN]

5th Gen term is catching on with Chinese having 2 planes, Japan having one design, Korea 1, India 1-2 depending how you see it, Russia 1, USA 2, France 0

China : J20 is not supercruising. How is the sensor fusion? super agile? bof. J31 : in test.
Japan : a 1/2 size test bench.
Korea : where is it? on the drawing board.
India : ???
Russia : OK. Probably the next one. in.... few years.
USA : only F22 is a perfect 5th gen according to Un-lucky Martin.